The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:35 am**

NO you do not want to drill a hole in each flush cap. The upper surface of
the wing is a low pressure area and you will suck the fuel right out of the
tank. Just lengthen your J tube that you currently have. I would never have
put it center on the fuselage, like an old C170, but since you already have
it there just make it higher than the caps. I generally put this vent tube
in the wing root fairing between the wing and fuselage.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Starr" <cws1932@cox.net>
To: "Murphy Aircraft Builders Group" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:03 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

Having completed my 25 hours of flight testing and having ironed out most

all issues - I still have one problem to solve. My supplied (and installed)
fuel caps are flush, screw-on type with no vents (looks like a marine type
of filler and cap). Tank venting - by the manual - is accomplished by a
common vent line (from both tanks) that runs from a fitting near the
top-most part of each tank to a "J" vent line above the center of the
fuselage. While this does vent both tanks, if tanks are filled to near
maximum capacity, when the wing and fuel heats up, considerable amounts of
fuel are forced out this vent pipe since it (the vent fitting in the tank)
is slightly below the top of the tank and is covered by the fuel in a full
tank - trapped air in the top of the tank (and the fuel in the tank) is
heated, forcing the fuel out the vent. This would seem to be a design flaw
and I'm sure others might have encountered the same problem.

My only seeming easy fix is to vent each tank cap with a "J" tube. I

could just drill a vent hole in each flush cap, but this would allow
moisture (rain) to enter the tank. Any other easy to accomplish
suggestions?

Charlie Starr SR 065

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:35 am**

Hi Charlie !

I've always thought it was not a good idea to have a vent over
the center of the cockpit !! Silly place for a fuel shower !!!

Bit late now, but I would suggest putting 2 separate J tubes
on each wing root gap cover strip - a little more clearance, and
air....

I guess it would be better to add a pipe inside the tank, from the
cross tube up to the top of the tank - almost impossible now that
they are closed, though. This could go right to the filler neck -
a good reason to have the standard caps instead of the flush ones !

A J tube on the caps will work, although I hate these - they
make getting the caps off a pain, AND are just waiting to be broken off
at some isolated airport ... You can stuff window screen in the end,
with a bit of epoxy, to keep bugs out, and if the J is low enough in front,
it should prevent moisture from entering too ... Best to do a J,
instead of an L, as the L will siphon gas if installed backward - just
the sort of thing that can happen ! :-(

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Monday 27 March 2006 09:03 pm, Charlie Starr wrote:

Having completed my 25 hours of flight testing and having ironed out most
all issues - I still have one problem to solve. My supplied (and
installed) fuel caps are flush, screw-on type with no vents (looks like a
marine type of filler and cap). Tank venting - by the manual - is
accomplished by a common vent line (from both tanks) that runs from a
fitting near the top-most part of each tank to a "J" vent line above the
center of the fuselage. While this does vent both tanks, if tanks are
filled to near maximum capacity, when the wing and fuel heats up,
considerable amounts of fuel are forced out this vent pipe since it (the
vent fitting in the tank) is slightly below the top of the tank and is
covered by the fuel in a full tank - trapped air in the top of the tank
(and the fuel in the tank) is heated, forcing the fuel out the vent.
This would seem to be a design flaw and I'm sure others might have
encountered the same problem.

My only seeming easy fix is to vent each tank cap with a "J" tube. I
could just drill a vent hole in each flush cap, but this would allow
moisture (rain) to enter the tank. Any other easy to accomplish
suggestions?

Charlie Starr SR 065

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:35 am**

Hold on now...there are quite a few older planes (Cubs for instance?)
that I've seen with the "J" tube coming out of the fuel caps on top of
the wings. I have that design on my Moose now--and have had it in place
for maybe 120+ hours. I've never lost a drop of fuel out of the tanks
thru those "J" tubes to my knowledge. How do I know? I've compared how
much fuel I've used per my fuel totalizer to how much I put in and they
match time after time after time. Believe me, I watched fuel use
religiously while flying over remote sections of Canada and Alaska last
year.

I know Doug Beechel also has the "J" fuel vent on his caps--and he has a
ton of hours on his Moose with no problem (no fuel loss).

I've only flown in rain a couple of times, and didn't have any problem
that I noticed regarding moisture in the tank.

Sorry Wayne, you know more than I'll ever forget about building planes,
but I'm not buying the "...suck the fuel right out of the tank..."
comment. Maybe there is a possible problem if the "J" isn't high
enough? I'd have to measure mine, but I'd have to guess it's maybe 4"
to 5" above the wing surface.

Ted Waltman

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 7:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

NO you do not want to drill a hole in each flush cap. The upper surface
of the wing is a low pressure area and you will suck the fuel right out
of the tank. Just lengthen your J tube that you currently have. I would
never have put it center on the fuselage, like an old C170, but since
you already have it there just make it higher than the caps. I generally
put this vent tube in the wing root fairing between the wing and
fuselage.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Starr" <cws1932@cox.net>
To: "Murphy Aircraft Builders Group" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:03 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

Having completed my 25 hours of flight testing and having ironed out
most

all issues - I still have one problem to solve. My supplied (and
installed) fuel caps are flush, screw-on type with no vents (looks like
a marine type of filler and cap). Tank venting - by the manual - is
accomplished by a common vent line (from both tanks) that runs from a
fitting near the top-most part of each tank to a "J" vent line above the
center of the fuselage. While this does vent both tanks, if tanks are
filled to near maximum capacity, when the wing and fuel heats up,
considerable amounts of fuel are forced out this vent pipe since it (the
vent fitting in the tank) is slightly below the top of the tank and is
covered by the fuel in a full tank - trapped air in the top of the tank
(and the fuel in the tank) is heated, forcing the fuel out the vent.
This would seem to be a design flaw and I'm sure others might have
encountered the same problem.

My only seeming easy fix is to vent each tank cap with a "J" tube. I

could just drill a vent hole in each flush cap, but this would allow
moisture (rain) to enter the tank. Any other easy to accomplish
suggestions?

Charlie Starr SR 065

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:35 am**

He said drill a hole in the cap itself Ted...not drill a hole and add a J
tube to the cap! There were two ideas thrown in there I believe...hense his
"would allow rain to enter the tank". Fuel will be sucked out of the tanks
with just a hole in the cap...no different than leaving your fuel cap off
all together. Sure he can add a J to the caps protruding above the wing and
facing into the wind for pressurization. There is not enough air flow to
allow water to enter and this is where it's better to have a J than an L so
the rise will negate any water trying to get in . That said Howard's is
vented with an L and have never seen water in his fuel system.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman@i1ci.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:24 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

Hold on now...there are quite a few older planes (Cubs for instance?)
that I've seen with the "J" tube coming out of the fuel caps on top of
the wings. I have that design on my Moose now--and have had it in place
for maybe 120+ hours. I've never lost a drop of fuel out of the tanks
thru those "J" tubes to my knowledge. How do I know? I've compared how
much fuel I've used per my fuel totalizer to how much I put in and they
match time after time after time. Believe me, I watched fuel use
religiously while flying over remote sections of Canada and Alaska last
year.

I know Doug Beechel also has the "J" fuel vent on his caps--and he has a
ton of hours on his Moose with no problem (no fuel loss).

I've only flown in rain a couple of times, and didn't have any problem
that I noticed regarding moisture in the tank.

Sorry Wayne, you know more than I'll ever forget about building planes,
but I'm not buying the "...suck the fuel right out of the tank..."
comment. Maybe there is a possible problem if the "J" isn't high
enough? I'd have to measure mine, but I'd have to guess it's maybe 4"
to 5" above the wing surface.

Ted Waltman

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 7:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

NO you do not want to drill a hole in each flush cap. The upper surface
of the wing is a low pressure area and you will suck the fuel right out
of the tank. Just lengthen your J tube that you currently have. I would
never have put it center on the fuselage, like an old C170, but since
you already have it there just make it higher than the caps. I generally
put this vent tube in the wing root fairing between the wing and
fuselage.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Starr" <cws1932@cox.net>
To: "Murphy Aircraft Builders Group" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:03 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

Having completed my 25 hours of flight testing and having ironed out
most
all issues - I still have one problem to solve. My supplied (and
installed) fuel caps are flush, screw-on type with no vents (looks like
a marine type of filler and cap). Tank venting - by the manual - is
accomplished by a common vent line (from both tanks) that runs from a
fitting near the top-most part of each tank to a "J" vent line above the
center of the fuselage. While this does vent both tanks, if tanks are
filled to near maximum capacity, when the wing and fuel heats up,
considerable amounts of fuel are forced out this vent pipe since it (the
vent fitting in the tank) is slightly below the top of the tank and is
covered by the fuel in a full tank - trapped air in the top of the tank
(and the fuel in the tank) is heated, forcing the fuel out the vent.
This would seem to be a design flaw and I'm sure others might have
encountered the same problem.
My only seeming easy fix is to vent each tank cap with a "J" tube. I
could just drill a vent hole in each flush cap, but this would allow
moisture (rain) to enter the tank. Any other easy to accomplish
suggestions?
Charlie Starr SR 065

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:35 am**

In hindsight I should have put in the inverted J in my caps, but just have
the L. Even worse, I flared the openings mistakenly thinking I could get
more ram air in the tanks. The good news, is that I flown in some pretty
good rain a few times, and have yet to find any water in my tanks, sumps, or
gascolator, ever. Also, have moored many times on the water when the whole
plane was dripping wet in the morning, but again, have never found a drop of
water in my tanks. So not sure what happens to it, whether it evaporates, or
these tanks just aren't susceptible to condensation for some reason.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 6:37 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

He said drill a hole in the cap itself Ted...not drill a hole and add a J
tube to the cap! There were two ideas thrown in there I believe...hense his
"would allow rain to enter the tank". Fuel will be sucked out of the tanks
with just a hole in the cap...no different than leaving your fuel cap off
all together. Sure he can add a J to the caps protruding above the wing and
facing into the wind for pressurization. There is not enough air flow to
allow water to enter and this is where it's better to have a J than an L so
the rise will negate any water trying to get in . That said Howard's is
vented with an L and have never seen water in his fuel system.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman@i1ci.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:24 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

Hold on now...there are quite a few older planes (Cubs for instance?)
that I've seen with the "J" tube coming out of the fuel caps on top of
the wings. I have that design on my Moose now--and have had it in place
for maybe 120+ hours. I've never lost a drop of fuel out of the tanks
thru those "J" tubes to my knowledge. How do I know? I've compared how
much fuel I've used per my fuel totalizer to how much I put in and they
match time after time after time. Believe me, I watched fuel use
religiously while flying over remote sections of Canada and Alaska last
year.

I know Doug Beechel also has the "J" fuel vent on his caps--and he has a
ton of hours on his Moose with no problem (no fuel loss).

I've only flown in rain a couple of times, and didn't have any problem
that I noticed regarding moisture in the tank.

Sorry Wayne, you know more than I'll ever forget about building planes,
but I'm not buying the "...suck the fuel right out of the tank..."
comment. Maybe there is a possible problem if the "J" isn't high
enough? I'd have to measure mine, but I'd have to guess it's maybe 4"
to 5" above the wing surface.

Ted Waltman

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 7:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

NO you do not want to drill a hole in each flush cap. The upper surface
of the wing is a low pressure area and you will suck the fuel right out
of the tank. Just lengthen your J tube that you currently have. I would
never have put it center on the fuselage, like an old C170, but since
you already have it there just make it higher than the caps. I generally
put this vent tube in the wing root fairing between the wing and
fuselage.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Starr" <cws1932@cox.net>
To: "Murphy Aircraft Builders Group" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:03 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

Having completed my 25 hours of flight testing and having ironed out
most
all issues - I still have one problem to solve. My supplied (and
installed) fuel caps are flush, screw-on type with no vents (looks like
a marine type of filler and cap). Tank venting - by the manual - is
accomplished by a common vent line (from both tanks) that runs from a
fitting near the top-most part of each tank to a "J" vent line above the
center of the fuselage. While this does vent both tanks, if tanks are
filled to near maximum capacity, when the wing and fuel heats up,
considerable amounts of fuel are forced out this vent pipe since it (the
vent fitting in the tank) is slightly below the top of the tank and is
covered by the fuel in a full tank - trapped air in the top of the tank
(and the fuel in the tank) is heated, forcing the fuel out the vent.
This would seem to be a design flaw and I'm sure others might have
encountered the same problem.
My only seeming easy fix is to vent each tank cap with a "J" tube. I
could just drill a vent hole in each flush cap, but this would allow
moisture (rain) to enter the tank. Any other easy to accomplish
suggestions?
Charlie Starr SR 065

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:35 am**

Guess I didn't read your post well enough Wayne (not the first time I
haven't read things well <grin>). Sorry for my quick jump on half the
facts...

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 7:37 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

He said drill a hole in the cap itself Ted...not drill a hole and add a
J tube to the cap! There were two ideas thrown in there I
believe...hense his "would allow rain to enter the tank". Fuel will be
sucked out of the tanks with just a hole in the cap...no different than
leaving your fuel cap off all together. Sure he can add a J to the caps
protruding above the wing and facing into the wind for pressurization.
There is not enough air flow to allow water to enter and this is where
it's better to have a J than an L so the rise will negate any water
trying to get in . That said Howard's is vented with an L and have never
seen water in his fuel system.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman@i1ci.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:24 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

Hold on now...there are quite a few older planes (Cubs for instance?)
that I've seen with the "J" tube coming out of the fuel caps on top of

the wings. I have that design on my Moose now--and have had it in
place for maybe 120+ hours. I've never lost a drop of fuel out of the

tanks thru those "J" tubes to my knowledge. How do I know? I've
compared how much fuel I've used per my fuel totalizer to how much I
put in and they match time after time after time. Believe me, I
watched fuel use religiously while flying over remote sections of
Canada and Alaska last year.

I know Doug Beechel also has the "J" fuel vent on his caps--and he has

a ton of hours on his Moose with no problem (no fuel loss).

I've only flown in rain a couple of times, and didn't have any problem

that I noticed regarding moisture in the tank.

Sorry Wayne, you know more than I'll ever forget about building
planes, but I'm not buying the "...suck the fuel right out of the
tank..." comment. Maybe there is a possible problem if the "J" isn't
high enough? I'd have to measure mine, but I'd have to guess it's
maybe 4" to 5" above the wing surface.

Ted Waltman

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 7:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

NO you do not want to drill a hole in each flush cap. The upper
surface of the wing is a low pressure area and you will suck the fuel
right out of the tank. Just lengthen your J tube that you currently
have. I would never have put it center on the fuselage, like an old
C170, but since you already have it there just make it higher than the

caps. I generally put this vent tube in the wing root fairing between
the wing and fuselage.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Starr" <cws1932@cox.net>
To: "Murphy Aircraft Builders Group" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:03 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

Having completed my 25 hours of flight testing and having ironed out

most
all issues - I still have one problem to solve. My supplied (and
installed) fuel caps are flush, screw-on type with no vents (looks
like a marine type of filler and cap). Tank venting - by the manual -

is accomplished by a common vent line (from both tanks) that runs from

a fitting near the top-most part of each tank to a "J" vent line above

the center of the fuselage. While this does vent both tanks, if tanks

are filled to near maximum capacity, when the wing and fuel heats up,
considerable amounts of fuel are forced out this vent pipe since it
(the vent fitting in the tank) is slightly below the top of the tank
and is covered by the fuel in a full tank - trapped air in the top of
the tank (and the fuel in the tank) is heated, forcing the fuel out
the vent. This would seem to be a design flaw and I'm sure others
might have encountered the same problem.
My only seeming easy fix is to vent each tank cap with a "J" tube.
I
could just drill a vent hole in each flush cap, but this would allow
moisture (rain) to enter the tank. Any other easy to accomplish
suggestions?
Charlie Starr SR 065

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:35 am**

This is not a problem on the Rebel using filler necks and caps that
extend above the wing with a small vent in the cap (or the neck).
Nevertheless I extended the cross vent line into the tank and up to the
high point near the filler cap as Bob mentions but it is a bit late for
that now I guess.

An inverted J tube on the caps shouldn't catch any more water than one
above the fuselage. There are some tricks that might help although I
don't think they are necessary. For example with a 1/4" tube you could
epoxy a 3/8" tubing extension over the end that points forward into the
airstream so that the forward inch is 3/8 tubing. Drilling a small
1/16" hole on the rear side of the 3/8 extension just at the point where
it transitions down to 1/4" should separate and vent any water.
Ken

Charlie Starr wrote:

Having completed my 25 hours of flight testing and having ironed out most all issues - I still have one problem to solve. My supplied (and installed) fuel caps are flush, screw-on type with no vents (looks like a marine type of filler and cap). Tank venting - by the manual - is accomplished by a common vent line (from both tanks) that runs from a fitting near the top-most part of each tank to a "J" vent line above the center of the fuselage. While this does vent both tanks, if tanks are filled to near maximum capacity, when the wing and fuel heats up, considerable amounts of fuel are forced out this vent pipe since it (the vent fitting in the tank) is slightly below the top of the tank and is covered by the fuel in a full tank - trapped air in the top of the tank (and the fuel in the tank) is heated, forcing the fuel out the vent. This would seem to be a design flaw and I'm sure others might have encountered the same problem.

My only seeming easy fix is to vent each tank cap with a "J" tube. I could just drill a vent hole in each flush cap, but this would allow moisture (rain) to enter the tank. Any other easy to accomplish suggestions?

Charlie Starr SR 065

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:35 am**

Hello Wayne,

I try to figure a "J" tube instead a "L" tube. Is there a picture
somewhere I can see?

Thanks and have a good day.

Jean
Rebel 747R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

He said drill a hole in the cap itself Ted...not drill a hole and add a J
tube to the cap! There were two ideas thrown in there I believe...hense
his
"would allow rain to enter the tank". Fuel will be sucked out of the
tanks
with just a hole in the cap...no different than leaving your fuel cap off
all together. Sure he can add a J to the caps protruding above the wing
and
facing into the wind for pressurization. There is not enough air flow to
allow water to enter and this is where it's better to have a J than an L
so
the rise will negate any water trying to get in . That said Howard's is
vented with an L and have never seen water in his fuel system.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman@i1ci.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:24 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

Hold on now...there are quite a few older planes (Cubs for instance?)
that I've seen with the "J" tube coming out of the fuel caps on top of
the wings. I have that design on my Moose now--and have had it in place
for maybe 120+ hours. I've never lost a drop of fuel out of the tanks
thru those "J" tubes to my knowledge. How do I know? I've compared how
much fuel I've used per my fuel totalizer to how much I put in and they
match time after time after time. Believe me, I watched fuel use
religiously while flying over remote sections of Canada and Alaska last
year.

I know Doug Beechel also has the "J" fuel vent on his caps--and he has a
ton of hours on his Moose with no problem (no fuel loss).

I've only flown in rain a couple of times, and didn't have any problem
that I noticed regarding moisture in the tank.

Sorry Wayne, you know more than I'll ever forget about building planes,
but I'm not buying the "...suck the fuel right out of the tank..."
comment. Maybe there is a possible problem if the "J" isn't high
enough? I'd have to measure mine, but I'd have to guess it's maybe 4"
to 5" above the wing surface.

Ted Waltman

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 7:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

NO you do not want to drill a hole in each flush cap. The upper surface
of the wing is a low pressure area and you will suck the fuel right out
of the tank. Just lengthen your J tube that you currently have. I would
never have put it center on the fuselage, like an old C170, but since
you already have it there just make it higher than the caps. I generally
put this vent tube in the wing root fairing between the wing and
fuselage.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Starr" <cws1932@cox.net>
To: "Murphy Aircraft Builders Group" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:03 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

Having completed my 25 hours of flight testing and having ironed out
most
all issues - I still have one problem to solve. My supplied (and
installed) fuel caps are flush, screw-on type with no vents (looks like
a marine type of filler and cap). Tank venting - by the manual - is
accomplished by a common vent line (from both tanks) that runs from a
fitting near the top-most part of each tank to a "J" vent line above the
center of the fuselage. While this does vent both tanks, if tanks are
filled to near maximum capacity, when the wing and fuel heats up,
considerable amounts of fuel are forced out this vent pipe since it (the
vent fitting in the tank) is slightly below the top of the tank and is
covered by the fuel in a full tank - trapped air in the top of the tank
(and the fuel in the tank) is heated, forcing the fuel out the vent.
This would seem to be a design flaw and I'm sure others might have
encountered the same problem.
My only seeming easy fix is to vent each tank cap with a "J" tube. I
could just drill a vent hole in each flush cap, but this would allow
moisture (rain) to enter the tank. Any other easy to accomplish
suggestions?
Charlie Starr SR 065

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:35 am**

I'll email you a picture of mine privately Jean. I can post one to the
server if anyone else wants a copy.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Jean Poirier
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 6:53 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

Hello Wayne,

I try to figure a "J" tube instead a "L" tube. Is there a picture
somewhere I can see?

Thanks and have a good day.

Jean
Rebel 747R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

He said drill a hole in the cap itself Ted...not drill a hole and add
a J tube to the cap! There were two ideas thrown in there I
believe...hense his "would allow rain to enter the tank". Fuel will
be sucked out of the tanks
with just a hole in the cap...no different than leaving your fuel cap

off

all together. Sure he can add a J to the caps protruding above the

wing

and
facing into the wind for pressurization. There is not enough air flow

to

allow water to enter and this is where it's better to have a J than an

L

so
the rise will negate any water trying to get in . That said Howard's

is

vented with an L and have never seen water in his fuel system.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman@i1ci.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:24 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

Hold on now...there are quite a few older planes (Cubs for instance?)

that I've seen with the "J" tube coming out of the fuel caps on top
of the wings. I have that design on my Moose now--and have had it in

place for maybe 120+ hours. I've never lost a drop of fuel out of
the tanks thru those "J" tubes to my knowledge. How do I know? I've

compared how much fuel I've used per my fuel totalizer to how much I
put in and they match time after time after time. Believe me, I
watched fuel use religiously while flying over remote sections of
Canada and Alaska last year.

I know Doug Beechel also has the "J" fuel vent on his caps--and he
has a ton of hours on his Moose with no problem (no fuel loss).

I've only flown in rain a couple of times, and didn't have any
problem that I noticed regarding moisture in the tank.

Sorry Wayne, you know more than I'll ever forget about building
planes, but I'm not buying the "...suck the fuel right out of the
tank..." comment. Maybe there is a possible problem if the "J" isn't

high enough? I'd have to measure mine, but I'd have to guess it's
maybe 4" to 5" above the wing surface.

Ted Waltman

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of

Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 7:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

NO you do not want to drill a hole in each flush cap. The upper
surface of the wing is a low pressure area and you will suck the fuel

right out of the tank. Just lengthen your J tube that you currently
have. I would never have put it center on the fuselage, like an old
C170, but since you already have it there just make it higher than
the caps. I generally put this vent tube in the wing root fairing
between the wing and fuselage.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Starr" <cws1932@cox.net>
To: "Murphy Aircraft Builders Group" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:03 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

Having completed my 25 hours of flight testing and having ironed
out most
all issues - I still have one problem to solve. My supplied (and
installed) fuel caps are flush, screw-on type with no vents (looks
like a marine type of filler and cap). Tank venting - by the manual
- is accomplished by a common vent line (from both tanks) that runs
from a fitting near the top-most part of each tank to a "J" vent line

above the center of the fuselage. While this does vent both tanks,
if tanks are filled to near maximum capacity, when the wing and fuel
heats up, considerable amounts of fuel are forced out this vent pipe
since it (the vent fitting in the tank) is slightly below the top of
the tank and is covered by the fuel in a full tank - trapped air in
the top of the tank (and the fuel in the tank) is heated, forcing the

fuel out the vent. This would seem to be a design flaw and I'm sure
others might have encountered the same problem.
My only seeming easy fix is to vent each tank cap with a "J" tube.

I
could just drill a vent hole in each flush cap, but this would allow
moisture (rain) to enter the tank. Any other easy to accomplish
suggestions?
Charlie Starr SR 065

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:35 am**

Ted,

Yes, would appreciate it if you would post a picture on the server.
Thanks,
Jack -SR193

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman@i1ci.com>

I'll email you a picture of mine privately Jean. I can post one to the
server if anyone else wants a copy.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Jean Poirier
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 6:53 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

Hello Wayne,

I try to figure a "J" tube instead a "L" tube. Is there a picture
somewhere I can see?

Thanks and have a good day.

Jean
Rebel 747R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

He said drill a hole in the cap itself Ted...not drill a hole and add
a J tube to the cap! There were two ideas thrown in there I
believe...hense his "would allow rain to enter the tank". Fuel will
be sucked out of the tanks
with just a hole in the cap...no different than leaving your fuel cap
off
all together. Sure he can add a J to the caps protruding above the
wing
and
facing into the wind for pressurization. There is not enough air flow
to
allow water to enter and this is where it's better to have a J than an
L
so
the rise will negate any water trying to get in . That said Howard's
is
vented with an L and have never seen water in his fuel system.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Waltman"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:24 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

Hold on now...there are quite a few older planes (Cubs for instance?)

that I've seen with the "J" tube coming out of the fuel caps on top
of the wings. I have that design on my Moose now--and have had it in

place for maybe 120+ hours. I've never lost a drop of fuel out of
the tanks thru those "J" tubes to my knowledge. How do I know? I've

compared how much fuel I've used per my fuel totalizer to how much I
put in and they match time after time after time. Believe me, I
watched fuel use religiously while flying over remote sections of
Canada and Alaska last year.

I know Doug Beechel also has the "J" fuel vent on his caps--and he
has a ton of hours on his Moose with no problem (no fuel loss).

I've only flown in rain a couple of times, and didn't have any
problem that I noticed regarding moisture in the tank.

Sorry Wayne, you know more than I'll ever forget about building
planes, but I'm not buying the "...suck the fuel right out of the
tank..." comment. Maybe there is a possible problem if the "J" isn't

high enough? I'd have to measure mine, but I'd have to guess it's
maybe 4" to 5" above the wing surface.

Ted Waltman

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of

Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 7:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

NO you do not want to drill a hole in each flush cap. The upper
surface of the wing is a low pressure area and you will suck the fuel

right out of the tank. Just lengthen your J tube that you currently
have. I would never have put it center on the fuselage, like an old
C170, but since you already have it there just make it higher than
the caps. I generally put this vent tube in the wing root fairing
between the wing and fuselage.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Starr"
To: "Murphy Aircraft Builders Group"
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:03 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

all issues - I still have one problem to solve. My supplied (and
installed) fuel caps are flush, screw-on type with no vents (looks
like a marine type of filler and cap). Tank venting - by the manual
- is accomplished by a common vent line (from both tanks) that runs
from a fitting near the top-most part of each tank to a "J" vent line

above the center of the fuselage. While this does vent both tanks,
if tanks are filled to near maximum capacity, when the wing and fuel
heats up, considerable amounts of fuel are forced out this vent pipe
since it (the vent fitting in the tank) is slightly below the top of
the tank and is covered by the fuel in a full tank - trapped air in
the top of the tank (and the fuel in the tank) is heated, forcing the

fuel out the vent. This would seem to be a design flaw and I'm sure
others might have encountered the same problem.

could just drill a vent hole in each flush cap, but this would allow
moisture (rain) to enter the tank. Any other easy to accomplish
suggestions?

-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:35 am**

Picture (bit fuzzy--sorry) of my J fuel cap vent uploaded to 113 - S/M
Fuel Systems.
Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
lawsondj@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 11:04 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

Ted,

Yes, would appreciate it if you would post a picture on the server.
Thanks, Jack -SR193

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman@i1ci.com>

I'll email you a picture of mine privately Jean. I can post one to the
server if anyone else wants a copy.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Jean Poirier
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 6:53 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

Hello Wayne,

I try to figure a "J" tube instead a "L" tube. Is there a picture
somewhere I can see?

Thanks and have a good day.

Jean
Rebel 747R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

He said drill a hole in the cap itself Ted...not drill a hole and
add
a J tube to the cap! There were two ideas thrown in there I
believe...hense his "would allow rain to enter the tank". Fuel will
be sucked out of the tanks
with just a hole in the cap...no different than leaving your fuel

cap

off
all together. Sure he can add a J to the caps protruding above the
wing
and
facing into the wind for pressurization. There is not enough air

flow

to
allow water to enter and this is where it's better to have a J than
an
L
so
the rise will negate any water trying to get in . That said Howard's

is
vented with an L and have never seen water in his fuel system.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Waltman"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:24 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

Hold on now...there are quite a few older planes (Cubs for
instance?)

that I've seen with the "J" tube coming out of the fuel caps on top
of the wings. I have that design on my Moose now--and have had it

in

place for maybe 120+ hours. I've never lost a drop of fuel out of
the tanks thru those "J" tubes to my knowledge. How do I know? I've

compared how much fuel I've used per my fuel totalizer to how much
I
put in and they match time after time after time. Believe me, I
watched fuel use religiously while flying over remote sections of
Canada and Alaska last year.

I know Doug Beechel also has the "J" fuel vent on his caps--and he
has a ton of hours on his Moose with no problem (no fuel loss).

I've only flown in rain a couple of times, and didn't have any
problem that I noticed regarding moisture in the tank.

Sorry Wayne, you know more than I'll ever forget about building
planes, but I'm not buying the "...suck the fuel right out of the
tank..." comment. Maybe there is a possible problem if the "J"

isn't

high enough? I'd have to measure mine, but I'd have to guess it's
maybe 4" to 5" above the wing surface.

Ted Waltman

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf

Of

Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 7:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

NO you do not want to drill a hole in each flush cap. The upper
surface of the wing is a low pressure area and you will suck the

fuel

right out of the tank. Just lengthen your J tube that you currently
have. I would never have put it center on the fuselage, like an old

C170, but since you already have it there just make it higher than
the caps. I generally put this vent tube in the wing root fairing
between the wing and fuselage.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Starr"
To: "Murphy Aircraft Builders Group"
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:03 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] SR tank vent

all issues - I still have one problem to solve. My supplied (and
installed) fuel caps are flush, screw-on type with no vents (looks
like a marine type of filler and cap). Tank venting - by the manual

- is accomplished by a common vent line (from both tanks) that runs

from a fitting near the top-most part of each tank to a "J" vent

line

above the center of the fuselage. While this does vent both tanks,
if tanks are filled to near maximum capacity, when the wing and

fuel

heats up, considerable amounts of fuel are forced out this vent

pipe

since it (the vent fitting in the tank) is slightly below the top

of

the tank and is covered by the fuel in a full tank - trapped air in

the top of the tank (and the fuel in the tank) is heated, forcing

the

fuel out the vent. This would seem to be a design flaw and I'm sure
others might have encountered the same problem.

could just drill a vent hole in each flush cap, but this would
allow
moisture (rain) to enter the tank. Any other easy to accomplish
suggestions?

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