[rebel-builders] Re: [rebel-builders-d] DIGEST - rebel-build
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am
There are certainly some items in that list that are entirely necessary
updates to the original design, while others are simply a matter of personal
preference, and leaving them the way they were designed has caused no
problems in 1000's of flight hours. A few of the things you listed just
don't make a lot of sense to me as an issue of costing you so much money...
the rudder pulleys for instance... you simply rivet them to the inside of
the firewall instead of the outside and close up the holes in the firewall.
Another builder here in Fairbanks did this and got the little stainless
plugs for the holes at a hardware store for a couple bucks, if they were
even over a dollar. The brakes also, the original design was very awkward,
but the modification to straighten them out has been out for about 5 years
now, and again is not an expensive change... I'm sure $5 would cover the new
brackets if you didn't have scrap to suit laying under your workbench
already. As for brake lines and windows and all that... well that's the
beauty of an experimental aircraft, you feel better with the changes you've
made... you couldn't even make those changes in a certified aircraft unless
there was an STC out for it... and you think modding a Moose is expensive!
Finally, for any parts that I did not receive in the proper quantity, a
phone call to Murphy got me what I needed, it's a hassle if you need the
part to continue, but I can't complain about their response to the problem.
Now, I fully agree that Darryl has been reluctant to publicly address some
of the issues that have arrisen with more time in the field on these
planes... but that's why we share information on this site, and the factory
has eventually addressed the issues that affected safety. But there have
also been mods issued by the factory that hadn't been seen in the field yet,
so I do not feel that they are trying to pretend that there are no problems
at all with the design. The Rebel kit that the factory was shipping in 1992
when I first got turned onto the Rebel was a very different kit from what
they ship today. That is the result of flight hours revealing where the
design needed to be changed. I'm sure there are many more mods to come for
the Moose as it is still a fairly young design in flight hours accumulated.
I suggest that if you want an airplane that has already had all its
weaknesses identified, then you should look at a old C-185 or the like. Of
course if you find one that already has the upgrades completed, you'll
likely pay much more than a well built Moose will cost you... and if you
find one that is original, then you'll spend more than that Moose will cost
just getting the updates done. But at least you'll know what your in for
before you get started instead of having to deal with the growing pains the
Moose is currently experiencing.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brent Blue MD" <brentblue@qwest.net>
To: <rebel-builders-d@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:23 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Re: [rebel-builders-d] DIGEST - rebel-builders-d
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updates to the original design, while others are simply a matter of personal
preference, and leaving them the way they were designed has caused no
problems in 1000's of flight hours. A few of the things you listed just
don't make a lot of sense to me as an issue of costing you so much money...
the rudder pulleys for instance... you simply rivet them to the inside of
the firewall instead of the outside and close up the holes in the firewall.
Another builder here in Fairbanks did this and got the little stainless
plugs for the holes at a hardware store for a couple bucks, if they were
even over a dollar. The brakes also, the original design was very awkward,
but the modification to straighten them out has been out for about 5 years
now, and again is not an expensive change... I'm sure $5 would cover the new
brackets if you didn't have scrap to suit laying under your workbench
already. As for brake lines and windows and all that... well that's the
beauty of an experimental aircraft, you feel better with the changes you've
made... you couldn't even make those changes in a certified aircraft unless
there was an STC out for it... and you think modding a Moose is expensive!
Finally, for any parts that I did not receive in the proper quantity, a
phone call to Murphy got me what I needed, it's a hassle if you need the
part to continue, but I can't complain about their response to the problem.
Now, I fully agree that Darryl has been reluctant to publicly address some
of the issues that have arrisen with more time in the field on these
planes... but that's why we share information on this site, and the factory
has eventually addressed the issues that affected safety. But there have
also been mods issued by the factory that hadn't been seen in the field yet,
so I do not feel that they are trying to pretend that there are no problems
at all with the design. The Rebel kit that the factory was shipping in 1992
when I first got turned onto the Rebel was a very different kit from what
they ship today. That is the result of flight hours revealing where the
design needed to be changed. I'm sure there are many more mods to come for
the Moose as it is still a fairly young design in flight hours accumulated.
I suggest that if you want an airplane that has already had all its
weaknesses identified, then you should look at a old C-185 or the like. Of
course if you find one that already has the upgrades completed, you'll
likely pay much more than a well built Moose will cost you... and if you
find one that is original, then you'll spend more than that Moose will cost
just getting the updates done. But at least you'll know what your in for
before you get started instead of having to deal with the growing pains the
Moose is currently experiencing.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brent Blue MD" <brentblue@qwest.net>
To: <rebel-builders-d@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:23 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Re: [rebel-builders-d] DIGEST - rebel-builders-d
Mike:
I am traveling but just off the top of my head, here are some of the
things that I have had to fix which cost significant dollars.
Fixing the V brace by getting a collar welded around it.
Putting the rudder pulleys on the in side--far safer in the configuration.
Stiffening the firewall and top of fuselage to prevent flexing of the
M14P.
Adding numerous pulleys/bell cranks for cables which Murphy says are
not needed but would not pass any safety inspector I know.
Stiffening the tail which was a huge project including parts.
Getting Dale's tail stinger which is far better than the more
expensive Murphy (if available) and installing the beef up.
Getting a real tail wheel. That was about $1,300 alone.
Adding real brakes on the right side as opposed to the cockeyed
system Murphy tried.
Throwing away the plastic tubing Murphy supplied for brake line and
replace with real brake lines.
Obtaining a host of parts that are needed that Murphy does not supply
in the proper quantity.
Replacing rear windows with stiff windows to prevent oil canning problem.
Fixing the engine mount.
Fixing the flap flex problem which can be a critical problem which we
still haven't come up with a fix yet!
That is a small list from memory. I am sure Brian and Doug could
provide an extensive list if asked.
Probably wouldn't be as expensive if Darryl admitted the problems
when notified (which he has been by several customers) and provided
fixes. Also, providing a real manual would help.
Brent
---------- Digest Message #1 ----------
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 17:58:08 -0700
From: brentblue@qwest.net
To: rebel-builders-d
Subject: Murphy Cost
Don't forget to add in about 25-50% of the kit cost to fix all the
safety and other problems with the Murphy kit and its manual. That's
what it is costing me to fix the problems with Moose--and I am doing it
cheap.
BB
---------- Digest Message #2 ----------
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 16:08:57 -0900
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Murphy Cost
So you're spending $9000 to $18,000 to fix problems with the Moose? I
must
really be missing something, for the life of me I can't think of what is
wrong with the Moose that could possibly cost that much... the tail wheel
issue right now is the only big ticket item I can think of, and it wont
cost
anywhere near that much... Ted, do you have what you spent on this issue
figured into your operating costs... I bet you do.
Mike
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