The Murphy Builders Site

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From: MMoreho699 <MMoreho699@aol.com>
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Hello!

The following is an excerpt from my correspondence with Murphy Aircraft. I'd
like to know where I could get such a book. Haven't seen it in Sport
Aviation.
I already have AC 43.13-1A CHANGE 3 AND -2A COMBINED:

People have told me that I don't need the 2D edge distance requirement for

rivets placed such that only a minimal force will be applied in the edge
direction. Specifically concerning the torque tube collar and end plug. I
mentioned this in an earlier email. Where can I get such rules? I didn't

see

any in the books I have.

Hi Dan;
The E.D. on thicker material is not as critical on the thicker materials ,
for example , all of our torque tube horns etc. are common, so the E.D. on
your parts is acceptable . EAA sells a very good book on sheet metal for A/C
in which all of this information is covered , I can't remember the name of,
but they advertise it the back of their Mags.

Thanks,
Dan



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Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 12:23:07 -0700
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Dan I have "Aircraft Sheet Metal " by Nick Bonacci. ISBN0-89100-296-0. I'm
not
sure if this is the manual they refer to or not. If it is I'm not sure it
will
help in this case as it's mainly aimed at repair work as opposed to design
and it
only deals with solid rivets. It does clearly state 2d edge distance but
this is
only in the context of repairing. Perhaps the book they had in mind was more
for
design. I think they're just trying to tell you from a design point that
with the
multiple heavy layers here their design is adequate. If not I think we would
have
heard by now of some of these starting to show up in annuals as loosening
up. If
you keep digging let us know what the proper book and the design theory
actually
is ...always interested. Wray R306 (just to eliminate one possible book)

MMoreho699 wrote:

The E.D. on thicker material is not as critical on the thicker materials ,
for example , all of our torque tube horns etc. are common, so the E.D. on
your parts is acceptable . EAA sells a very good book on sheet metal for

A/C

in which all of this information is covered , I can't remember the name

of,

but they advertise it the back of their Mags.

Thanks,
Dan

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Thanks Wray!

Dan



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From: "Charles Skorupa" <chucks@gte.net>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: I need a book reference
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 11:24:44 -0700
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Hi Dan,
If you want to get beyond "rule-of-thumb" or conservative
"one-size-fits-all" guidelines, you might want to check out "Analysis and
Design of Flight Vehicle Structures" by E.F. Bruhn. This will show you how
to calculate the strength of any joint with the loads it is expected to see
and predict, for example, if a rivet will fail or the metal will tear out
when a riveted connection reaches its maximum load carrying ability. The
Hiscocks book "Design of Light Aircraft" that Murphy sells is a good start
at getting approximate loads data, as well as how to do overall airplane
analysis.

I applaud the questions you are asking since in my opinion they truly fit
into the spirit of learning that the was the basis for the homebuilder
movement and the reason there is a special category in the regs for
experimental aircraft. As always, we shouldn't do anything critical without
checking with the designer. Only he/she knows the actual loads and design
margins and the failure mechanisms and design philosophy for that particular
design. If necessary, he can custom calculate any joint to see if there is
sufficient excess carrying capacity to permit fudging the cookbook numbers.
But it is very educational and fun to peek beneath the covers and try to
understand why things are done the way they are.

- Chuck -


-----Original Message-----
From: MMoreho699 <MMoreho699@aol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, April 04, 1998 2:36 PM
Subject: I need a book reference

Hello!

The following is an excerpt from my correspondence with Murphy Aircraft.

I'd

like to know where I could get such a book. Haven't seen it in Sport

Aviation.

I already have AC 43.13-1A CHANGE 3 AND -2A COMBINED:

People have told me that I don't need the 2D edge distance requirement for

rivets placed such that only a minimal force will be applied in the edge
direction. Specifically concerning the torque tube collar and end plug. I
mentioned this in an earlier email. Where can I get such rules? I didn't

see

any in the books I have.

Hi Dan;
The E.D. on thicker material is not as critical on the thicker materials ,
for example , all of our torque tube horns etc. are common, so the E.D. on
your parts is acceptable . EAA sells a very good book on sheet metal for

A/C

in which all of this information is covered , I can't remember the name of,
but they advertise it the back of their Mags.

Thanks,
Dan

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From: Tim Carter <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
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To: "'murphy-rebel@dcsol.com'" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
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Dan:

Call EAA and ask for the EAA Publications Department.

I have a book called "Aircraft Sheet Metal" that I got from US Industrial
Tool and Supply, but, it does not have great detail about edge distance.

If the edge distance still bugs you after hearing that it is OK from MAM,
then you can have some plugs machined from 2024 stock, and make them a bit
longer, but, that will cost you about $75 each, minimum.

Tim
----------
From: MMoreho699[SMTP:MMoreho699@aol.com]
Reply To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 1998 2:25 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: I need a book reference

Hello!

The following is an excerpt from my correspondence with Murphy Aircraft.
I'd
like to know where I could get such a book. Haven't seen it in Sport
Aviation.
I already have AC 43.13-1A CHANGE 3 AND -2A COMBINED:

People have told me that I don't need the 2D edge distance requirement for

rivets placed such that only a minimal force will be applied in the edge
direction. Specifically concerning the torque tube collar and end plug. I
mentioned this in an earlier email. Where can I get such rules? I didn't

see

any in the books I have.

Hi Dan;
The E.D. on thicker material is not as critical on the thicker materials ,
for example , all of our torque tube horns etc. are common, so the E.D. on
your parts is acceptable . EAA sells a very good book on sheet metal for
A/C
in which all of this information is covered , I can't remember the name of,
but they advertise it the back of their Mags.

Thanks,
Dan





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Thanks Tim!!

Dan



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Tim Carter wrote:

I have a book called "Aircraft Sheet Metal" that I got from US
Industrial
Tool and Supply, but, it does not have great detail about edge
distance.

This is a good book that describes typical industry standards for
aircraft sheet metal work.

Please don't take this the wrong way but what you really need is a basic
structures and stress text book. I am a civil engineer and sat through
years of this stuff at school and it does not come into the picture in
my professional work at all but it extremely helpful when building
aircraft.

If I got it right the original question was "why is the edge distance
not important with regard to the rivets fasting the torque tubes to the
end caps". As we all know rivets are designed to transfer load by shear,
i.e. the sheets held together try to cut the rivet in two. In a
standard lap joint if the edge distance is too small the rivet will take
the load but the sheet will tear at the rivet holes because there is not
enoughg material to take the stress. In the case of the end caps and
torque tubes the force is around the circumference of the tube, i.e. the
force on the end of the control horn is trying to 'twist' the tube. The
rivets holding the end cap to the tube are then in shear in the
direction around the circumference. If the control horn was trying to
pull the end cap out of the tube then the edge distance of the rivets
would be important.

Got all that!, good, there will be a test next week.

Hope that helps

David James, Rebel 228
BMW K100 Powered





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