Hello to all and Merry Christmas- A quick question before the holidays. I have some time off and hope to get my right wing assembled.
In regards to the instructions on trimming the top and bottom tank skins . Instructions show to trim to a 3/8 dim. on two sides only. This leaves about a 1/2" overhang from front rivet row and a 1/2" extension past the root rib.-Is this normal and why the overhang from the root rib. If anyone could reply before Thursday I would appreciate it. Thank you-Bob
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REBEL "652"
-
Lonnie Benson
REBEL "652"
Bob; the overhang at the root is so you don't have to drill holes in the right fuel tank in order to attach the wing-to-fuselage fairing. I cut my upper tank skin per manual and had no problems.
Happy Holidays,
Lonnie
Happy Holidays,
Lonnie
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Johnson <bjohnson@wsd.wabco-rail.com (bjohnson@wsd.wabco-rail.com)>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)>
Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 8:08 AM
Subject: REBEL "652"
Hello to all and Merry Christmas- A quick question before the holidays. I have some time off and hope to get my right wing assembled.
In regards to the instructions on trimming the top and bottom tank skins . Instructions show to trim to a 3/8 dim. on two sides only. This leaves about a 1/2" overhang from front rivet row and a 1/2" extension past the root rib.-Is this normal and why the overhang from the root rib. If anyone could reply before Thursday I would appreciate it. Thank you-Bob
-
Bob Johnson
Rebel "652"
Hi all, This is only to confirm that Mike's test is working, at least to this end. I would also like to report that my Rebel "652" went through it's 1st. pre-closure inspection on Saturday April 1st. snag free.(no this is not an April fools joke) Now I can finish spraying the insides and close up all the flying surfaces for painting this summer. I am one of those who must paint before flying, because from the rest of you, if flying this Rebel is as much fun as you say it is, I would never take the time later. Best regards to all-Bob J.
-
klehman
Rebel "652"
Bob
Congratulations on the inspection.
FWIW I used the method of installing the tank skins and sealing the tanks before
installing the wing skins. I ended up with an alignment problem when I installed
the top wing skins. Eveything aligned along the main spar but the tank skin to
wing skin was a problem. If I did this again I would cleco the wing skin into
position before installing the tank skin and then remove the wing skin after the
tank skin was prosealed and riveted into place. I haven't checked for washout
yet but my wing skin is now has some "waves" in it behind the tank skin.
Also it was very satisfying to go into the tank through my one access hole and
filet the inside of all the joints and rivets. There were a lot of potential
leak spots (especially at the stringer exits) prior to doing that. I'm guessing
that that is why the SR wing has access holes near the inboard and out board
tank ribs.
Ken
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Congratulations on the inspection.
FWIW I used the method of installing the tank skins and sealing the tanks before
installing the wing skins. I ended up with an alignment problem when I installed
the top wing skins. Eveything aligned along the main spar but the tank skin to
wing skin was a problem. If I did this again I would cleco the wing skin into
position before installing the tank skin and then remove the wing skin after the
tank skin was prosealed and riveted into place. I haven't checked for washout
yet but my wing skin is now has some "waves" in it behind the tank skin.
Also it was very satisfying to go into the tank through my one access hole and
filet the inside of all the joints and rivets. There were a lot of potential
leak spots (especially at the stringer exits) prior to doing that. I'm guessing
that that is why the SR wing has access holes near the inboard and out board
tank ribs.
Ken
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Bob Johnson
Rebel "652"
I really hate to beat things to death and I have been following this site for a Year now, but I am real close to that construction stage of my fuselage where I have to decide if I should move my firewall back the 3". My manual and "gut" says yes. I have a rebuilt and modified O320 H2AD engine. On the last "e" mail Brian mentioned a concern with the extra weight with a metal prop. Is this a concern with the firewall moved back.-Thanks guys (and gals)-Bob J.
-
rebelair
Rebel "652"
Hi Bob
I don't think it is a problem at all with the firewall moved back at all. I also believe there are a few 0320's installed without the firewall moved back. My experience is with the firewall moved back & a carbon fibre prop, the CG is about 11" right where you want it. The only thing that I am sorry about is that I wasted weeks installing elevator trim. That was a serious waste of time. Seriously!
The people with 0320's & metal props are very happy as well. I was concerned because I have a full panel & spring gear so I knew my empty weight would be on the high end & did not want to add more.
Regards
Brian #328R
I don't think it is a problem at all with the firewall moved back at all. I also believe there are a few 0320's installed without the firewall moved back. My experience is with the firewall moved back & a carbon fibre prop, the CG is about 11" right where you want it. The only thing that I am sorry about is that I wasted weeks installing elevator trim. That was a serious waste of time. Seriously!
The people with 0320's & metal props are very happy as well. I was concerned because I have a full panel & spring gear so I knew my empty weight would be on the high end & did not want to add more.
Regards
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Johnson [mailto:bjohnson@wabtec.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 8:09 AM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Rebel "652"
I really hate to beat things to death and I have been following this site for a Year now, but I am real close to that construction stage of my fuselage where I have to decide if I should move my firewall back the 3". My manual and "gut" says yes. I have a rebuilt and modified O320 H2AD engine. On the last "e" mail Brian mentioned a concern with the extra weight with a metal prop. Is this a concern with the firewall moved back.-Thanks guys (and gals)-Bob J.
-
Bob Patterson
Rebel "652"
You will likely be happiest with the firewall moved back ...
And don't forget to do all of the <extras> in the "Floatfix" bulletin !
The extra weight of a metal prop is STILL a concern, even moved
back - it puts 35 lb or more right out at the very front of the Rebel,
where it puts strong loads on the whole structure, especially when you
hit high waves on floats !
The standard prop seems to be the Warp Drive 3 blade, 72", with
17" of nickel leading edge, and square tips - everyone is pleased with
this prop, and the weight is under 10 Lb., if my memory serves ...
.....bobp
----------------------------orig.-------------------------------------------
At 08:09 AM 4/12/00 -0400, you wrote:
fuselage where I have to decide if I should move my firewall back the 3". My
manual and "gut" says yes. I have a rebuilt and modified O320 H2AD engine.
On the last "e" mail Brian mentioned a concern with the extra weight with a
metal prop. Is this a concern with the firewall moved back.-Thanks guys (and
gals)-Bob J.
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
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Archives located at:
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And don't forget to do all of the <extras> in the "Floatfix" bulletin !
The extra weight of a metal prop is STILL a concern, even moved
back - it puts 35 lb or more right out at the very front of the Rebel,
where it puts strong loads on the whole structure, especially when you
hit high waves on floats !
The standard prop seems to be the Warp Drive 3 blade, 72", with
17" of nickel leading edge, and square tips - everyone is pleased with
this prop, and the weight is under 10 Lb., if my memory serves ...
.....bobp
----------------------------orig.-------------------------------------------
At 08:09 AM 4/12/00 -0400, you wrote:
for a Year now, but I am real close to that construction stage of myI really hate to beat things to death and I have been following this site
fuselage where I have to decide if I should move my firewall back the 3". My
manual and "gut" says yes. I have a rebuilt and modified O320 H2AD engine.
On the last "e" mail Brian mentioned a concern with the extra weight with a
metal prop. Is this a concern with the firewall moved back.-Thanks guys (and
gals)-Bob J.
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I really hate to beat things to death and I
have been following this site for a Year now, but I am real close to that
construction stage of my fuselage where I have to decide if I should move my
firewall back the 3". My manual and "gut" says yes. I have a rebuilt and
modified O320 H2AD engine. On the last "e" mail Brian mentioned a concern with
the extra weight with a metal prop. Is this a concern with the firewall moved
back.-Thanks guys (and gals)-Bob J.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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-
B&O Johnson
Rebel "652"
This is in reply to Roger and Alice. I have been following your comments regarding the rear wing att. fitting. I followed the manual and do have a rivet through mine. I did not think it would be a problem or the manual would have cautioned us against it. Perhaps Murphy is delaying response because if this is a problem there are probably a lot of Rebels out there the same way. If I get confirmation that this is not good then I will drill it out and put in an extra bolt.-Now back to my fuselage.
-
B&O Johnson
Rebel "652"
This is really only a test message as I have sent requests before with out receiving a reply and may be experiencing "SIMPATICO" problems. There is no need to reply , if this works it will come to myself.-Thanks
-
B&O Johnson
Rebel "652"
"HELP" I am in the middle of trying to build my cowling-std "nose bowl -aluminum" construction for the Lyc. O320. Murphy says to allow for a 1" spacer behind the prop. Has anyone build this set up with "no spacer" or is there not enough room. Thanks-Bob J.
-
Wayne G. O'Shea
Rebel "652"
Hello Bob!
It's best if you have your prop and spinner on hand, before you start! Reason: if using an aluminum spinner, the rear bulkhead flange faces back anywhere from 3/4" to 1 1/8" behind the propellor. If using the UHS fiberglass spinner, in a lot of cases, the spinner ends up flush with the rear of the prop.
When I did my cowling back in '94, I taped AN365-1032 nuts around the face of the flywheel to give me an even clearance from the flywheel and clamped the nose bowl in place. This gave me enough clearance to run MAM's 10" aluminum spinner without a propellor spacer. Then when I switched to a 70" x 3 blade WD and a UHS spinner, I now have over 3/4" clearance between bowl and spinner. (looks like shit). If I had of done the WD/UHS thing first, I could have spaced the nose bowl about an inch in front of the flywheel! So you definitely don't need a propellor spacer, unless you want to get the prop out from the bowl a bit more. This will most likely only add to the nose heavy C of G and not do anything to benefit prop "bite" or engine cooling.
Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
It's best if you have your prop and spinner on hand, before you start! Reason: if using an aluminum spinner, the rear bulkhead flange faces back anywhere from 3/4" to 1 1/8" behind the propellor. If using the UHS fiberglass spinner, in a lot of cases, the spinner ends up flush with the rear of the prop.
When I did my cowling back in '94, I taped AN365-1032 nuts around the face of the flywheel to give me an even clearance from the flywheel and clamped the nose bowl in place. This gave me enough clearance to run MAM's 10" aluminum spinner without a propellor spacer. Then when I switched to a 70" x 3 blade WD and a UHS spinner, I now have over 3/4" clearance between bowl and spinner. (looks like shit). If I had of done the WD/UHS thing first, I could have spaced the nose bowl about an inch in front of the flywheel! So you definitely don't need a propellor spacer, unless you want to get the prop out from the bowl a bit more. This will most likely only add to the nose heavy C of G and not do anything to benefit prop "bite" or engine cooling.
Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: B&O Johnson (ob.johnson@sympatico.ca)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 7:32 PM
Subject: Rebel "652"
"HELP" I am in the middle of trying to build my cowling-std "nose bowl -aluminum" construction for the Lyc. O320. Murphy says to allow for a 1" spacer behind the prop. Has anyone build this set up with "no spacer" or is there not enough room. Thanks-Bob J.
-
Legeorgen
Rebel "652"
Wayne, what is a UHS spinner.
Bruce G
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Bruce G
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Legeorgen
Rebel "652"
Wayne, I have yet to order a prop. I had intended to us the WD because I was
pleased with its performance on my Kitfox. I know a lot of guys like the wood
Sensenich, but I like the idea of being able to change the pitch... to find a
perfect fit. Would you use the WD again on your 0320? I also have a Mark
Landaul prop vibration dampener but it must weight 10 lb. and because I
didn't cut back the firewall I was not going to use it.
Bruce G
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pleased with its performance on my Kitfox. I know a lot of guys like the wood
Sensenich, but I like the idea of being able to change the pitch... to find a
perfect fit. Would you use the WD again on your 0320? I also have a Mark
Landaul prop vibration dampener but it must weight 10 lb. and because I
didn't cut back the firewall I was not going to use it.
Bruce G
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Bob Patterson
Rebel "652"
Hi Bruce !
It seems that the consensus is that THE best performance comes
from the Sensenich METAL props (compared to both MacCauley & Warp Drive,
but only by a small margin). The extra weight is the trade-off - not
to mention the cost difference over the W-D !
Many others like the idea of being able to fine tune the pitch
to their needs, and the cost saving makes the W-D a very good choice.
Because of all the recent reports about blade cracks, though, <I>
would definitely USE that Landaul vibration damper - it might also
make for longer engine life ! Even with the damper, the W-D will come
in at half the weight of the metal prop. My firewall is not moved,
and I have the Sensenich metal prop, AND the spacer (because of the
%&^*&^* 'speed' cowl), which puts my empty CofG at 8.1". This still
makes this one of the most exciting Rebels I've ever flown !! There
are no handling problems - but I'm careful with the brakes ! ;-)
If I was starting over, I would likely try the W-D & damper....
(less money, more flexibility - just inspect often & carefully)
UHS is a Canadian company that makes the composite spinners
for W-D. You could likely save a few bucks by ordering from Wayne
instead of W-D. (He's the UHS reseller for Ontario ...).
.....bobp
-----------------------------orig.----------------------------------------
At 10:28 PM 2/20/01 EST, you wrote:
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It seems that the consensus is that THE best performance comes
from the Sensenich METAL props (compared to both MacCauley & Warp Drive,
but only by a small margin). The extra weight is the trade-off - not
to mention the cost difference over the W-D !
Many others like the idea of being able to fine tune the pitch
to their needs, and the cost saving makes the W-D a very good choice.
Because of all the recent reports about blade cracks, though, <I>
would definitely USE that Landaul vibration damper - it might also
make for longer engine life ! Even with the damper, the W-D will come
in at half the weight of the metal prop. My firewall is not moved,
and I have the Sensenich metal prop, AND the spacer (because of the
%&^*&^* 'speed' cowl), which puts my empty CofG at 8.1". This still
makes this one of the most exciting Rebels I've ever flown !! There
are no handling problems - but I'm careful with the brakes ! ;-)
If I was starting over, I would likely try the W-D & damper....
(less money, more flexibility - just inspect often & carefully)
UHS is a Canadian company that makes the composite spinners
for W-D. You could likely save a few bucks by ordering from Wayne
instead of W-D. (He's the UHS reseller for Ontario ...).
.....bobp
-----------------------------orig.----------------------------------------
At 10:28 PM 2/20/01 EST, you wrote:
---------*Wayne, I have yet to order a prop. I had intended to us the WD because I was
pleased with its performance on my Kitfox. I know a lot of guys like the wood
Sensenich, but I like the idea of being able to change the pitch... to find a
perfect fit. Would you use the WD again on your 0320? I also have a Mark
Landaul prop vibration dampener but it must weight 10 lb. and because I
didn't cut back the firewall I was not going to use it.
Bruce G
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Wayne G. O'Shea
Rebel "652"
Bruce, the UHS spinner is a fiberglass spinner that is made here in Canada.
I sell their product (you can view in our products section). This is also
the spinner that Warp Drive sells with their propellors. No bargain to buy
from me and ship across the border, if already ordering a prop form W.D., so
you may as well buy the set from them.
Regards,
Wayne G. O.Shea
www,irishfield.on.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@cs.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel "652"
--------*
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I sell their product (you can view in our products section). This is also
the spinner that Warp Drive sells with their propellors. No bargain to buy
from me and ship across the border, if already ordering a prop form W.D., so
you may as well buy the set from them.
Regards,
Wayne G. O.Shea
www,irishfield.on.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@cs.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel "652"
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------Wayne, what is a UHS spinner.
Bruce G
--------*
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