The Murphy Builders Site

From: Keith Leitch <im_planecrazy@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Extended range tanks- Rebel
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 09:39:43 -0800 (PST)

I have researched the site on extended tanks and
didn't find much info. What is the consenses on
installing them. I plan on going with an 0-320 or
possibly an 0-360.

My plan is to one day fly the Rebel to Alaska but
really don't think I will need the extended tanks that
often. Do they add much weight?

Are there any Rebels out there with an 0-360
installed? When talking to Robin this past summer at
Oshkosh he said it could be done with a few
modifications. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Keith

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I have researched the site on extended tanks and
didn't find much info. What is the consenses on
installing them. I plan on going with an 0-320 or
possibly an 0-360.

My plan is to one day fly the Rebel to Alaska but
really don't think I will need the extended tanks that
often. Do they add much weight?

Are there any Rebels out there with an 0-360
installed? When talking to Robin this past summer at
Oshkosh he said it could be done with a few
modifications. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Keith

From: Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Extended range tanks- Rebel
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 14:07:00 -0500

Hi Keith !

I wouldn't even think about bigger tanks !! The Rebel already
has about 50 % more fuel than a C-172 - and it's 'way beyond bladder
range now !! :-) Typically, they hold about 49 gallons - never mind
what the specs say ...

You will already be carrying nearly 300 lb of fuel - a lot of
useful load gone .... We've flown across the country many times,
east/west and north/south - never had a problem with standard tanks,
as all the other aircraft flying with us needed fuel sooner. AFAIK,
there's only one or 2 Rebels out there with larger tanks - likely
NOT a good idea, as, with partial tanks, you have a greater chance
of condensation, AND poor fuel flow, because 1" depth of fuel doesn't
have much of a 'head', and can slosh around a lot !

The 360 is definitely great on amphibs - but NOT a Lyc. 360 -
go with the XP-360, balanced. The standard Lyc. 360s have vibration
limit ranges depending on prop, etc. - typically, NO continuous
operation between 1900 and 2400 RPM - a very useful range !!
If you run them there, there's a good chance of a broken crank !
<I> would NOT move the firewall back - it screws up toooo many
things, and the Rebel flies just great with it in the 'normal'
place .... The only mods you need are the Ontario Mods, and
those include Wayne's firewall plates, and FUS-70's for ALL 8
corner wraps - and, of course, all the factory S/B mods.

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 17 February 2006 12:39 pm, Keith Leitch wrote:

I have researched the site on extended tanks and
didn't find much info. What is the consenses on
installing them. I plan on going with an 0-320 or
possibly an 0-360.

My plan is to one day fly the Rebel to Alaska but
really don't think I will need the extended tanks that
often. Do they add much weight?

Are there any Rebels out there with an 0-360
installed? When talking to Robin this past summer at
Oshkosh he said it could be done with a few
modifications. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Keith

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Bob, Keith,
My reason for wanting the extra capacity is not for
one long flight, but for
when you fly a long way to somewhere that doesn't
have a fuel pump and you
want to be able to get home again. As for the
condensation issue, I used to
fly Cessnas for a commercial air taxi operator in
northwest Washington and
BC. We were always so overloaded with people and
suitcases that we rarely
had more than an hour of fuel in the tanks. I never
drained more than the
usual few drops of water from the tanks on the
morning preflight. I just
don't think it's a real issue. As for fuel flow, I
guess I'll find out, but
again, it was never a problem for me in a Cessna.
Jesse

From: Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Extended range tanks- Rebel
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 14:07:00 -0500

Hi Keith !

I wouldn't even think about bigger tanks !!

The Rebel already

has about 50 % more fuel than a C-172 - and it's

'way beyond bladder

range now !! :-) Typically, they hold about 49

gallons - never mind

what the specs say ...

You will already be carrying nearly 300 lb

of fuel - a lot of

useful load gone .... We've flown across the

country many times,

east/west and north/south - never had a problem

with standard tanks,

as all the other aircraft flying with us needed

fuel sooner. AFAIK,

there's only one or 2 Rebels out there with larger

tanks - likely

NOT a good idea, as, with partial tanks, you have a

greater chance

of condensation, AND poor fuel flow, because 1"

depth of fuel doesn't

have much of a 'head', and can slosh around a lot !

The 360 is definitely great on amphibs - but

NOT a Lyc. 360 -

go with the XP-360, balanced. The standard Lyc.

360s have vibration

limit ranges depending on prop, etc. - typically,

NO continuous

operation between 1900 and 2400 RPM - a very

useful range !!

If you run them there, there's a good chance of a

broken crank !

<I> would NOT move the firewall back - it screws up

toooo many

things, and the Rebel flies just great with it in

the 'normal'

place .... The only mods you need are the Ontario

Mods, and

those include Wayne's firewall plates, and FUS-70's

for ALL 8

corner wraps - and, of course, all the factory S/B

mods.

......bobp

On Friday 17 February 2006 12:39 pm, Keith Leitch

wrote:

I have researched the site on extended tanks and
didn't find much info. What is the consenses on
installing them. I plan on going with an 0-320

or

possibly an 0-360.

My plan is to one day fly the Rebel to Alaska

but

really don't think I will need the extended

tanks that

often. Do they add much weight?

Are there any Rebels out there with an 0-360
installed? When talking to Robin this past

summer at

Oshkosh he said it could be done with a few
modifications. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Keith

-----------------------------------------------------------------

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List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com

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Thanks for the replies everyone. You pretty much said
what I had already been debating about. I think I will
just go with the standard tanks. Jesse, your thoughts
are exactly why I was thinking of long range tanks.
But the way things go with me I may never be able to
take that long trip of my dreams so most of my flying
will probably be around Northern Minnesota and into
some of Canada. Just hope I don't lose my medical
before I finish my Rebel. I have even thought I may
have to finish my Rebel and put it under the new Sport
Pilot. That will leave me with a VERY long range Rebel
since I will need to use a Rotax then.
Keith

--- Jesse Jenks <jessejenks@hotmail.com> wrote:

Bob, Keith,
My reason for wanting the extra capacity is not for
one long flight, but for
when you fly a long way to somewhere that doesn't
have a fuel pump and you
want to be able to get home again. As for the
condensation issue, I used to
fly Cessnas for a commercial air taxi operator in
northwest Washington and
BC. We were always so overloaded with people and
suitcases that we rarely
had more than an hour of fuel in the tanks. I never
drained more than the
usual few drops of water from the tanks on the
morning preflight. I just
don't think it's a real issue. As for fuel flow, I
guess I'll find out, but
again, it was never a problem for me in a Cessna.
Jesse

From: Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Extended range tanks- Rebel
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 14:07:00 -0500

Hi Keith !

I wouldn't even think about bigger tanks !!

The Rebel already

has about 50 % more fuel than a C-172 - and it's

'way beyond bladder

range now !! :-) Typically, they hold about 49

gallons - never mind

what the specs say ...

You will already be carrying nearly 300 lb

of fuel - a lot of

useful load gone .... We've flown across the

country many times,

east/west and north/south - never had a problem

with standard tanks,

as all the other aircraft flying with us needed

fuel sooner. AFAIK,

there's only one or 2 Rebels out there with larger

tanks - likely

NOT a good idea, as, with partial tanks, you have a

greater chance

of condensation, AND poor fuel flow, because 1"

depth of fuel doesn't

have much of a 'head', and can slosh around a lot !

The 360 is definitely great on amphibs - but

NOT a Lyc. 360 -

go with the XP-360, balanced. The standard Lyc.

360s have vibration

limit ranges depending on prop, etc. - typically,

NO continuous

operation between 1900 and 2400 RPM - a very

useful range !!

If you run them there, there's a good chance of a

broken crank !

<I> would NOT move the firewall back - it screws up

toooo many

things, and the Rebel flies just great with it in

the 'normal'

place .... The only mods you need are the Ontario

Mods, and

those include Wayne's firewall plates, and FUS-70's

for ALL 8

corner wraps - and, of course, all the factory S/B

mods.

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------

On Friday 17 February 2006 12:39 pm, Keith Leitch

wrote:

or

but

tanks that

summer at

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Not to worry Keith !

If you decide to go to Sport Pilot, all you have
to do is
move the outboard solid ribs inward a bay or 2 ...
Most 912
Rebels have only 2 bays/side, or 1 bay on left, and
2 on right,
instead of the standard 3 bays/side. Each bay holds
about 8 gal.,
so you still have LOTS of fuel ! (Our 912 only
burned about 3 gph !)

Just be sure to leave the firewall in the
standard position -
do NOT move it back, or you can forget the Rotax &
LSA !!

......bobp

On Friday 17 February 2006 05:07 pm, Keith Leitch
wrote:

Thanks for the replies everyone. You pretty much

said

what I had already been debating about. I think I

will

just go with the standard tanks. Jesse, your

thoughts

are exactly why I was thinking of long range

tanks.

But the way things go with me I may never be able

to

take that long trip of my dreams so most of my

flying

will probably be around Northern Minnesota and

into

some of Canada. Just hope I don't lose my medical
before I finish my Rebel. I have even thought I

may

have to finish my Rebel and put it under the new

Sport

Pilot. That will leave me with a VERY long range

Rebel

since I will need to use a Rotax then.
Keith

--- Jesse Jenks <jessejenks@hotmail.com> wrote:

Bob, Keith,
My reason for wanting the extra capacity is not

for

one long flight, but for
when you fly a long way to somewhere that

doesn't

have a fuel pump and you
want to be able to get home again. As for the
condensation issue, I used to
fly Cessnas for a commercial air taxi operator

in

northwest Washington and
BC. We were always so overloaded with people and
suitcases that we rarely
had more than an hour of fuel in the tanks. I

never

drained more than the
usual few drops of water from the tanks on the
morning preflight. I just
don't think it's a real issue. As for fuel flow,

I

guess I'll find out, but
again, it was never a problem for me in a

Cessna.

Jesse

!!

The Rebel already

it's

'way beyond bladder

49

gallons - never mind

lb

of fuel - a lot of
country many times,
with standard tanks,
fuel sooner. AFAIK,

larger

tanks - likely

have a

greater chance
depth of fuel doesn't

lot !

but

NOT a Lyc. 360 -

Lyc.

360s have vibration

typically,

NO continuous
useful range !!

a

broken crank !

screws up

toooo many

in

the 'normal'

Ontario

Mods, and

FUS-70's

for ALL 8

S/B

mods.

Leitch

wrote:

and

on

0-320

Bob,

I am building the wings at the moment and am going to
go with standard 3 bay. This shouldn't be a problem
later if I end up going with the Rotax should it? Is
there anything different in the building of the
airframe if I end up going with the Rotax vs. Lyc 320
or 360? I am currently planning for the Lyc but, a
medical condition may cause me to be denied a medical
physical in the future. If that happens I will not
renew the medical and go to Sport Pilot. So, I am
trying to leave my options open. I don't want to have
to build and then be one of those people that has to
sell due to lose of medical.

From what I have been reading, most everyone suggests
to leave the firewall alone no mater what engine is
used. Is this correct?

Thanks,
Keith

--- Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca> wrote:

Not to worry Keith !

If you decide to go to Sport Pilot, all you have
to do is
move the outboard solid ribs inward a bay or 2 ...
Most 912
Rebels have only 2 bays/side, or 1 bay on left, and
2 on right,
instead of the standard 3 bays/side. Each bay holds
about 8 gal.,
so you still have LOTS of fuel ! (Our 912 only
burned about 3 gph !)

Just be sure to leave the firewall in the
standard position -
do NOT move it back, or you can forget the Rotax &
LSA !!

......bobp