The Murphy Builders Site

brian

a. brace would be best on other side of rib as you mention, if elevator
already built this fix is better than taking elevator apart, another fix
would be to have the bracket with a y shape so it rives to tube in two new
locations and then the rib, this would really stop the problem, more work

do this but if your building now i think its best solution

b. use same rivets rv1410, i think

c. doubler same thickness .020 i think

mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Brian Breathnach
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 3:36 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: rebel upgrades


Hi Ken and Wayne,

Went to the archives and pulled up the elevator mods which brouight a few
questions to mind.

(A) The archive photo of the fabricated angle bracket flange you mentioned
in your email below Ken, seems to overlay the flange of the rib that comes
with the kit rather than on the other side of the rib? Or am I reading the
photo wrong? Would that particular mod/configuration be as good as you
suggested to keep the rib from rotating Ken?

(B) Would the pie shaped doublers, and fabricated flange, result in the

of rivets different from those the manual specifies be used to attach the
elevator skin to the spar and ribs??

(C) Pie shaped doubler same thickness as the elevator skin?

Many thanx for any feedback you care to offer

Brian Breathnach R779


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: rebel upgrades

Thanks Ken! Exactly...saves me some typing so I can now get out and

9+ inches of wet snow and get the plow back on the truck. Winters back
with
a vengence!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: rebel upgrades

Hi Alan

This is in the archives a few times (although I don't know what

to search for) but concerns the outboard ends of the elevators only as
they have the counterweights in the tips. Those weights bouncing up and
down tend to cause the outboard rib to rotate a bit around the single
rivet that attaches it to the spar. The suggested solution is an angle
bracket on the other side of the rib so that the rib has two flanges
against the rib and two rivets and therefore can't rotate.

In addition two pie shaped skin doublers (top and bottom) under the

at the outboard end of the spar is suggested. They would pick up a few
of the rivets into both the spar and the rib. It is this area where

skin cracks have appeared but I think the real root cause should
probably be fixed with the bracket mentioned above.

Ken

alan.thompson@dcsol.com wrote:

fixes included

should have

elevators right now

in the archives. Is

in more detail?

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As Mike has pointed out the pictures show a "field" fix. Building new I
suggested a short piece of angle be attached on the inner face of the rib
with a single rivet into the spar tube. This would stop the rotating
action
at the single rivet that now holds the rib to the spar tube. Rivets have
more than sufficient grip length to continue using RV1410's and 4412's as
spelled out in the manual and doublers should always be one skin thickness
heavier than the skin in general practice. Ie .020 skin = .025 doubler.
The
elevator skin is .016..but I would do the doublers in this case at .025
minimum as you are trying to add some rigidity. First time build with the
angle on the inside would probably be good enough with .020 if that's all
you have. If doing a field fix then I would suggest .025 or even .032.....
as you are depending on it to stop the rotation at the single rib rivet.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Michael" <Michael.Jones@snclavalin.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 3:56 PM
Subject: RE: rebel upgrades

brian

a. brace would be best on other side of rib as you mention, if elevator
already built this fix is better than taking elevator apart, another fix
would be to have the bracket with a y shape so it rives to tube in two
new
locations and then the rib, this would really stop the problem, more work

to

do this but if your building now i think its best solution

b. use same rivets rv1410, i think

c. doubler same thickness .020 i think

mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Brian Breathnach
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 3:36 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: rebel upgrades


Hi Ken and Wayne,

Went to the archives and pulled up the elevator mods which brouight a few
questions to mind.

(A) The archive photo of the fabricated angle bracket flange you
mentioned
in your email below Ken, seems to overlay the flange of the rib that
comes
with the kit rather than on the other side of the rib? Or am I reading
the
photo wrong? Would that particular mod/configuration be as good as you
suggested to keep the rib from rotating Ken?

(B) Would the pie shaped doublers, and fabricated flange, result in the

use

of rivets different from those the manual specifies be used to attach the
elevator skin to the spar and ribs??

(C) Pie shaped doubler same thickness as the elevator skin?

Many thanx for any feedback you care to offer

Brian Breathnach R779


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: rebel upgrades

Thanks Ken! Exactly...saves me some typing so I can now get out and

shovel

9+ inches of wet snow and get the plow back on the truck. Winters back
with
a vengence!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: rebel upgrades

keywords

skin

some

fixes included should have elevators right now

mention

in the archives. Is

mods

in more detail?



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Thanx Mike and Wayne,

Thank you gentlemen: I think I got a handle on the mod now.

With regards to the doubler: if the elevator skin is .016, the minimum

the doubler would be .032? Have I got that right Wayne? which then brings

the final question which is the positioning of the doubler. Would I be

in thinking that because of its width of .032 the doublers (top and bottom
ones) would have to riveted on the outside of the elevator skin and NOT
between the skin and the spar.

Would the same mod considerations apply to the upper rib on the rudder?

By the time I finish with the mod the elevator ribs wont be going

Thanx again gentlemen

Brian R779


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: rebel ELEVATOR upgrades

As Mike has pointed out the pictures show a "field" fix. Building new I
suggested a short piece of angle be attached on the inner face of the

with a single rivet into the spar tube. This would stop the rotating
action
at the single rivet that now holds the rib to the spar tube. Rivets have
more than sufficient grip length to continue using RV1410's and 4412's

spelled out in the manual and doublers should always be one skin

heavier than the skin in general practice. Ie .020 skin = .025 doubler.
The
elevator skin is .016..but I would do the doublers in this case at .025
minimum as you are trying to add some rigidity. First time build with

angle on the inside would probably be good enough with .020 if that's

you have. If doing a field fix then I would suggest .025 or even

as you are depending on it to stop the rotation at the single rib rivet.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Michael" <Michael.Jones@snclavalin.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 3:56 PM
Subject: RE: rebel upgrades

brian

a. brace would be best on other side of rib as you mention, if elevator
already built this fix is better than taking elevator apart, another

would be to have the bracket with a y shape so it rives to tube in two
new
locations and then the rib, this would really stop the problem, more

to

do this but if your building now i think its best solution

b. use same rivets rv1410, i think

c. doubler same thickness .020 i think

mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Brian Breathnach
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 3:36 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: rebel upgrades


Hi Ken and Wayne,

Went to the archives and pulled up the elevator mods which brouight a

questions to mind.

(A) The archive photo of the fabricated angle bracket flange you
mentioned
in your email below Ken, seems to overlay the flange of the rib that
comes
with the kit rather than on the other side of the rib? Or am I reading
the
photo wrong? Would that particular mod/configuration be as good as you
suggested to keep the rib from rotating Ken?

(B) Would the pie shaped doublers, and fabricated flange, result in the

use

of rivets different from those the manual specifies be used to attach

elevator skin to the spar and ribs??

(C) Pie shaped doubler same thickness as the elevator skin?

Many thanx for any feedback you care to offer

Brian Breathnach R779


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: rebel upgrades

shovel

keywords

skin

some

mention

mods

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Brian...did you read what I typed?

Doubler can go under the skin.....just be sure to file a bevel on the edge
so the skin transitions smoothly.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Breathnach" <breathnach@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: rebel ELEVATOR upgrades

Thanx Mike and Wayne,

Thank you gentlemen: I think I got a handle on the mod now.

With regards to the doubler: if the elevator skin is .016, the minimum

for

the doubler would be .032? Have I got that right Wayne? which then brings

up

the final question which is the positioning of the doubler. Would I be

right

in thinking that because of its width of .032 the doublers (top and
bottom
ones) would have to riveted on the outside of the elevator skin and NOT
between the skin and the spar.

Would the same mod considerations apply to the upper rib on the rudder?

By the time I finish with the mod the elevator ribs wont be going

anywhere!

Thanx again gentlemen

Brian R779


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: rebel ELEVATOR upgrades

As Mike has pointed out the pictures show a "field" fix. Building new I
suggested a short piece of angle be attached on the inner face of the

rib

with a single rivet into the spar tube. This would stop the rotating
action
at the single rivet that now holds the rib to the spar tube. Rivets
have
more than sufficient grip length to continue using RV1410's and 4412's

as

spelled out in the manual and doublers should always be one skin

thickness

heavier than the skin in general practice. Ie .020 skin = .025 doubler.
The
elevator skin is .016..but I would do the doublers in this case at .025
minimum as you are trying to add some rigidity. First time build with

the

angle on the inside would probably be good enough with .020 if that's

all

you have. If doing a field fix then I would suggest .025 or even

.032.....

as you are depending on it to stop the rotation at the single rib
rivet.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Michael" <Michael.Jones@snclavalin.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 3:56 PM
Subject: RE: rebel upgrades

fix

work

to

few

use

the

shovel

back

keywords

as

single

angle

skin

few

some

Perhaps

the

mention mods



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