The Murphy Builders Site

Check out http://www.fepco.com/BF.chapter12.html. This is a great site with
a complete, excellent on-line book about bush flying in general. The
chapter I referenced gives extensive information about preheating &
equipment methods used in Alaska.

- Chuck Skorupa -
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Cross <rebelair@idirect.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, December 13, 1999 5:56 PM
Subject: Engine Preheat

Hi There Folks

Now that the Rebel is flying, I have a new problem. What is the best way

to

preheat the engine prior to start up for winter ops? I like the propane
style heaters with forced air as I think it would more gradually heat the
whole unit.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Engine is an Lyc. 0320.



Brian #328R

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Hi There Folks

Now that the Rebel is flying, I have a new problem. What is the best way to
preheat the engine prior to start up for winter ops? I like the propane
style heaters with forced air as I think it would more gradually heat the
whole unit.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Engine is an Lyc. 0320.



Brian #328R

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Brian

There is a tendency for the oil heaters to drive moisture up into the cylinders
where it condenses unless the cylinders are also heated. I like cylinder heat as
I believe most of the damage starting a cold engine is from reduced piston to
cylinder clearance. I also like multi-grade oil in the winter.

Believe it or not we have been delighted with a 1000 watt fan driven electric
heater (from an old dishwasher) on a C172. Plug the front cowl openings and
throw a blanket over the cowl and it does the job nicely if you can wait an hour
or two. We use a 3" aluminum dryer vent pipe to direct the heat up through the
bottom of the cowl.

Up North, have seen a propane torch used in a horizontal section of 3" pipe to
warm car engines. Put an elbow on the end to direct the heat vertical up to a
car engine and no fan is needed. Think this would also work with an airplane
but, if electricity is available, I prefer the electric heater as it doesn't add
any moisture to condense.

Dems my two cents worth. Are you sorry you asked?

Ken

Brian Cross wrote:

Hi There Folks

Now that the Rebel is flying, I have a new problem. What is the best way to
preheat the engine prior to start up for winter ops? I like the propane
style heaters with forced air as I think it would more gradually heat the
whole unit.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Engine is an Lyc. 0320.

Brian #328R

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The propane heaters with blowers can be good - the RAA Chapter has
one for everyone to use. They can also pump too much heat over the
cylinders, too quickly, leading to problems. If they are too hot, they
can damage wiring, mags, and even melt the fibreglass cowling !

I have seen several aircraft use small electric heaters - like those
used to warm up the interior of cars. These are mounted inside the cowling,
at the bottom, blowing up on the oil pan and block. Thay are not meant
for quick warm up, but rather a gradual, even heating. Thay are often
connected to heavy-duty timers, like those for automotive block heaters,
so they can be timed to start up at,say, 4 am, on the day you plan to fly
at 10 am.......

These work best if all openings in the cowling are restricted.

Have also seen oil dipstick heaters used - again, a long term warming.

Seem to recall an article on engine heaters last year, in RAA mag.,
or Experimenter, or Sport Aviation..... (old age !) Will try to find it.

......bobp

----------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 08:56 PM 12/13/99 -0500, you wrote:

Hi There Folks

Now that the Rebel is flying, I have a new problem. What is the best way to
preheat the engine prior to start up for winter ops? I like the propane
style heaters with forced air as I think it would more gradually heat the
whole unit.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Engine is an Lyc. 0320.



Brian #328R

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Archives located at:
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Hi Brian,
The system I use is called Reiff preheat. Similar to the Tanis systems
but much improved. The connections are on the top so they are not affected by
the heat and the cylinders are heated by a giant circle clamp with heat pads
on them. It dosn't use the cylinder temp hole that way. The oil sump is a
pad. All are thermostatically controlled so the oil dosn't get "coked." With
a decent blanket draped over the cowel (that dosn't mean steal one of her
good ones!) In 15deg f temps it will warm up to toasty in 4hrs. I mean keep
your hands warm type warm. 40 degree temps are much quicker.
A side note to these type heaters is if you fly every other day you
can plug them in on a constant basis. If you fly once a week, plug it in the
night before. DON'T put them on a timer for a few hours a day or make a
habit of plugging them in and then not flying. That can create quite the
water production. I saw the results of a person who thought it would be great
if he just warmed things every day with a timer. He flew very little. The
cam, cylinders and anything else steel look a hundred years old. The engine
shop had a horrible time getting things apart.
On the other hand, the flying club I'm in uses them alll he time. for
about 10 years . Both engines have gone well beyond tbo. Not a problem if
they are flown regularly. Good luck and Good flying. Hope to see you in Jan.
Curt N97MR
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Just thought I would throw this out there. The canard folks had this
discussion about 9 months ago. One interesting idea was to hook up a
preheater (blanket type) to a circuit that would turn on with a pager!
If you decided you wanted to fly, page your Plane. Do not know the details
it was just very interesting.

Ryan
Rebel #669

----Original Message Follows----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
Subject: Re: Engine Preheat
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:10:58 -0500


The propane heaters with blowers can be good - the RAA Chapter has
one for everyone to use. They can also pump too much heat over the
cylinders, too quickly, leading to problems. If they are too hot, they
can damage wiring, mags, and even melt the fibreglass cowling !

I have seen several aircraft use small electric heaters - like those
used to warm up the interior of cars. These are mounted inside the cowling,
at the bottom, blowing up on the oil pan and block. Thay are not meant
for quick warm up, but rather a gradual, even heating. Thay are often
connected to heavy-duty timers, like those for automotive block heaters,
so they can be timed to start up at,say, 4 am, on the day you plan to fly
at 10 am.......

These work best if all openings in the cowling are restricted.

Have also seen oil dipstick heaters used - again, a long term warming.

Seem to recall an article on engine heaters last year, in RAA mag.,
or Experimenter, or Sport Aviation..... (old age !) Will try to find it.

......bobp

----------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 08:56 PM 12/13/99 -0500, you wrote:

Hi There Folks

Now that the Rebel is flying, I have a new problem. What is the best way

to

preheat the engine prior to start up for winter ops? I like the propane
style heaters with forced air as I think it would more gradually heat the
whole unit.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Engine is an Lyc. 0320.



Brian #328R

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Archives located at:
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*----------------------------------------------------*

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Hi Brian. I use a Canadian Tire 120V car warmer in my car to defrost the
windows. Timer kicks it in an hour before driving. It sure beats scraping
and everything is nice a toasty inside. Mine is 900W but 1200W is available.
Fan is built in. Cost about $ 40. I'd imagine it would easily worm the
engine in an hour or less.
I read about bush pilots draining oil, warming it up on a stove and pouring
it in. Sounds lengthy, messy and complicated but perhaps yet another option.
Also read about a guy who had to do an e-landing because a lump of condensed
water in the oil froze, did not quite melt and blocked a passage and seized
engine.
One thing I don't like in the winter is to do short engine runups. Blow by
gases contain water and tons of it will sit in the oil. One of my bikes had
an oil site glass and after a few winter runups I could see TWO levels. One
clear (water about 1/4 inch) and one oil. A good spin on the highway got the
oil hot enough for the water to evaporate through the crank case vent.
I think on planes it is important in the winter to partly cover the air
intake so the oil can properly warm up.

Paul Kucera

Rebel builder 453R

--- Original Message -----
From: Brian Cross <rebelair@idirect.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, December 13, 1999 8:56 PM
Subject: Engine Preheat

Hi There Folks

Now that the Rebel is flying, I have a new problem. What is the best way

to

preheat the engine prior to start up for winter ops? I like the propane
style heaters with forced air as I think it would more gradually heat the
whole unit.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Engine is an Lyc. 0320.



Brian #328R

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