The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:53 pm**

I am trying to think ahead as much as possible to the various systems in the
fuselage. Would it be a good idea to get the hydraulic pump so I could
include it in the construction now instead of retrofitting later? Should I
make provisions now for the water rudder?
Thanks
Jesse

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:53 pm**

Hi Jesse

I've done that. I've added the float attach points, extra RG-1's on the
outside lower corner wraps for the water rudder cables, I've mounted the
hydraulic pump and handle in the cabin, put in the selector valve and
pressure gauge, Cut a slot in the forward floor and mounted an extra pulley
to bring in a cable for the water rudder retract. Still got to mount the hyd
reservoir and plumb in the AN6 ali lines I intend to use.

Much easier to do all this now than after you're finished.

Nig
745E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Jesse Jenks
Sent: 27 January 2006 20:21
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Fuselage planning for floats

I am trying to think ahead as much as possible to the various systems in the
fuselage. Would it be a good idea to get the hydraulic pump so I could
include it in the construction now instead of retrofitting later? Should I
make provisions now for the water rudder?
Thanks
Jesse

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:53 pm**

Yes, yes and yes. Do plan ahead. Even the float attach points require
consideration. First, you have to decide which floats you want. If you have
an Elite, the Murphy 1800s are a bit light on buoyancy, an imho the Montana
2200s are the way to go.

If you go with hydraulic floats, you have 3 items to locate in the fuselage:
1) the hydraulic pump, 2) the emergency hand pump and 3) the water rudder
handle, plus a whole lot of plumbing. Both Jack Wiebe and I wound up
putting a center console below the instrument panel to accommodate the hand
pump. We put the electric pump up the back connected with solid aluminum
lines that run along the floor parallel to the elevator cables. Jack has
the "camping floor", so his pump is 'way back near the elevator pulleys,
which is OK, but you'll never be able to check the fluid level on the
walkaround. Mine is just behind the baggage area. The water rudder handle
is on top of a cover that goes over all the junk on the floor (elevator
cables (2), hydraulic lines (3), battery cable (1)).

Al

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:53 pm**

FWIW I went down this road on the Rebel and even had the float kit here
while building. Mostly I wasted time mulling over this stuff. In the end
the only thing that made a lot of sense to me was to install the two
angles between the seats that the hand pump mounts on. I added some
structure below the floor to strengthen these a bit. They were about 1"
angles that are about 2 feet long and I didn't even use the ones that
came with the floats as they were too short for what I wanted. The rear
of them can make a convenient baggage tiedown point. Some guys have put
the reservoir immediately behind the pump and I'll probably do the same.

I did put in brackets for the water rudder handle (with a little below
floor structure) but that's not much of a deal and you can always resort
to the ring on the cable that just slips over a hook as per the manual.

The selector valve can easily be added later. If I had wanted a center
console, it would have made sense to integrate this stuff but I didn't
put in a console. Of course the float attachments and the Float fix
bulletin need to be done.

Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:

I am trying to think ahead as much as possible to the various systems in the
fuselage. Would it be a good idea to get the hydraulic pump so I could
include it in the construction now instead of retrofitting later? Should I
make provisions now for the water rudder?
Thanks
Jesse

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:53 pm**

Ken, Nig, Al,
Thanks for the input. Can the water rudder control be located pretty much
anywhere? Things are going to get pretty cramped between the seats, and it
seems like that is going to be the least critical item to locate. How are
the cables routed after exiting the belly? Do they just Y off and go
straight through air to the aft end of the floats?
Thanks again.
Jesse

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:53 pm**

All,

Remember to leave space for a standard instrument hole (in the center
section of the instrument panel) for the [MFC] gear control unit ...

Bob, 612e

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Jesse Jenks
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 11:29 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Fuselage planning for floats

Ken, Nig, Al,
Thanks for the input. Can the water rudder control be located pretty much
anywhere? Things are going to get pretty cramped between the seats, and it
seems like that is going to be the least critical item to locate. How are
the cables routed after exiting the belly? Do they just Y off and go
straight through air to the aft end of the floats?
Thanks again.
Jesse

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:53 pm**

I'll try to find the time to load some rigging pictures, Jesse, into dcsol.
The water rudder retract is a single cable around a pulley in the floor
ahead of the cage. I bring it up to the panel to a peg and use a cheater
cable permantly attached to said peg to keep it handy when the rudders are
down. The up and over and between the seats rigging MAM shows in the manual
leads to heads down operation...and not what you want when you are on the
water. Once this cable exits the cabin..around the pulley..back thru one
guide under the cabin and then a thimble and quick connect. From this quick
connnect it "Y's" to a guide on each rear attach strut and then to the water
rudder posts.

My pump is on the floor in the foward cabin and my reservior is up under the
panel attached to the right nose panel. This kept all the lines short and
nothing on the seat area or baggage area floors. Pretty sure those pictures
are already in dscol archives.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: Fuselage planning for floats

Ken, Nig, Al,
Thanks for the input. Can the water rudder control be located pretty much
anywhere? Things are going to get pretty cramped between the seats, and it
seems like that is going to be the least critical item to locate. How are
the cables routed after exiting the belly? Do they just Y off and go
straight through air to the aft end of the floats?
Thanks again.
Jesse

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:53 pm**

Thanks Wayne,
Yes, you have some pictures of your hydraulic system in the "float
installations" section I believe. I have been looking at them a bunch, as
well as Al's in the Elite photo archives. Some rigging pics would be great
to have on there as well whenever you have time, obviously no hurry for me.
I will consider putting everything up front like you did, for more open
space between the seats. That way (under the panel) looks like it wouldn't
be as hard to retro fit, requiring less head scratching now.
Jesse

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Fuselage planning for floats
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:52:29 -0500

I'll try to find the time to load some rigging pictures, Jesse, into dcsol.
The water rudder retract is a single cable around a pulley in the floor
ahead of the cage. I bring it up to the panel to a peg and use a cheater
cable permantly attached to said peg to keep it handy when the rudders are
down. The up and over and between the seats rigging MAM shows in the manual
leads to heads down operation...and not what you want when you are on the
water. Once this cable exits the cabin..around the pulley..back thru one
guide under the cabin and then a thimble and quick connect. From this quick
connnect it "Y's" to a guide on each rear attach strut and then to the
water
rudder posts.

My pump is on the floor in the foward cabin and my reservior is up under
the
panel attached to the right nose panel. This kept all the lines short and
nothing on the seat area or baggage area floors. Pretty sure those pictures
are already in dscol archives.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: Fuselage planning for floats

Ken, Nig, Al,
Thanks for the input. Can the water rudder control be located pretty
much
anywhere? Things are going to get pretty cramped between the seats, and
it
seems like that is going to be the least critical item to locate. How
are
the cables routed after exiting the belly? Do they just Y off and go
straight through air to the aft end of the floats?
Thanks again.
Jesse

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:53 pm**

I uploaded a few more pics of my Elite/Montana 2200 installation to Elite
Float Installations - water rudder cable, water rudder handle, hand pump.

Al

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