The Murphy Builders Site

I found some discussion in the archives about moving the rear float

forward to the rear door post bulkhead. Was that just for Montana floats
and/or Elites, or is this something I should consider for the Rebel? It
seems like it was all because the rear float spreader is too far aft and

contact the water, so there have been mods done to Montana floats to move
the spreader and rear struts forward, necessitating the movement of the
attach point in the fuselage. I plan to use MAM 1800s, which also

have the same tendency for the spreader to hit the water. Has anyone moved
the spreader on MAM floats, and is this something I should consider, or

go with the stock float fitting/strut/spreader location.
Thanks
Jesse





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From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Rebel rear float attach point
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:36:17 -0500

Sure now you bring that up after I made the rear attach/spreader bulkheads
today...could have moved the darn things forward! But then they wouldn't
fit
the existing attach gear that I have..so nah!

You could order a couple extra full size FL15-C bulkheads and then double
the LG (rear bulkhead for gear well) bulkhead for the stub and spreader bar
attachements. You'd just have to be careful while forming the LG bulkhead
(ie: adjust from manual dimensions to form bottom flanges) as you would
need
to turn the flanges around to face forward so you could double it with the
extra bulkhead for stub attachments. The flat face of the bulkhead would
remain stationary to form the gear well...but this would move the flange
position about 3/4" forward when it comes to rivet hole postion on the
skins
and top deck...so could get fun....but VERY doable if you feel the need to
deviate.

I know by take-off feel I've dunked the rear spreader a few times. The
trick
is to get moving first and then pull the stick back to start the
transistion
to the step. If you go around the lake doing plow turns...it's definitely
dunked.

Wayne



----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:16 PM
Subject: Rebel rear float attach point

I found some discussion in the archives about moving the rear float

fitting

forward to the rear door post bulkhead. Was that just for Montana floats
and/or Elites, or is this something I should consider for the Rebel? It
seems like it was all because the rear float spreader is too far aft and

can

contact the water, so there have been mods done to Montana floats to

move

the spreader and rear struts forward, necessitating the movement of the
attach point in the fuselage. I plan to use MAM 1800s, which also

apparently

have the same tendency for the spreader to hit the water. Has anyone

moved

the spreader on MAM floats, and is this something I should consider, or

just

go with the stock float fitting/strut/spreader location.
Thanks
Jesse





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Well thanks for the instructions Wayne, but I guess you said it best
yourself..nah! I will let someone else be the pioneer of that one. If it's
only an occasional nuisance then I guess I'll go stock, and it sounds like
overall, people are very happy with the MAM floats. Also, by doing that

of mod you would mary one plane and one pair of floats for life, and if I
had to sell before building the floats it would be hard to justify to a
potential buyer.

On the attach point topic though, the manual has you join the upper legs

the doubled "A" float attach bulkheads by simply bending the aft facing

to meet the other one and riveting at the top. Why not just leave the 1/4"
space between them like along the bottoms? It seems like you will end up
with unsightly converging rivet lines on the side skins if you do it their
way, and it doesn't seem structurally necessary to join them.
Jesse

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Rebel rear float attach point
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:36:17 -0500

Sure now you bring that up after I made the rear attach/spreader

today...could have moved the darn things forward! But then they wouldn't
fit
the existing attach gear that I have..so nah!

You could order a couple extra full size FL15-C bulkheads and then double
the LG (rear bulkhead for gear well) bulkhead for the stub and spreader

attachements. You'd just have to be careful while forming the LG bulkhead
(ie: adjust from manual dimensions to form bottom flanges) as you would
need
to turn the flanges around to face forward so you could double it with

extra bulkhead for stub attachments. The flat face of the bulkhead would
remain stationary to form the gear well...but this would move the flange
position about 3/4" forward when it comes to rivet hole postion on the
skins
and top deck...so could get fun....but VERY doable if you feel the need

deviate.

I know by take-off feel I've dunked the rear spreader a few times. The
trick
is to get moving first and then pull the stick back to start the
transistion
to the step. If you go around the lake doing plow turns...it's definitely
dunked.

Wayne



----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:16 PM
Subject: Rebel rear float attach point

I found some discussion in the archives about moving the rear float

fitting

forward to the rear door post bulkhead. Was that just for Montana

and/or Elites, or is this something I should consider for the Rebel?

seems like it was all because the rear float spreader is too far aft

can

contact the water, so there have been mods done to Montana floats to

move

the spreader and rear struts forward, necessitating the movement of

attach point in the fuselage. I plan to use MAM 1800s, which also

apparently

have the same tendency for the spreader to hit the water. Has anyone

moved

the spreader on MAM floats, and is this something I should consider,

just

go with the stock float fitting/strut/spreader location.
Thanks
Jesse





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You are going to join them with a strip on the inside anyhow. I doubt the
few rivets at the top if you.... as you said.... bend the aft one forward
and rivet at the top. Either way is fine. I've done it both ways...just
watch before your drill things for where the angle channel goes across
Fus-24 and comes against the double bulkheads so you can combine some

holes on the double bulkhead area.

Also if you want to avoid the converging rivet lines. Start tighter to the
bulkhead flange base near the bottom and then you'll be slightly off

towards the open edge of the flange by the top of it if you make the holes
parallel to the original bulkhead rivets.

Choice is yours!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel rear float attach point

Well thanks for the instructions Wayne, but I guess you said it best
yourself..nah! I will let someone else be the pioneer of that one. If

only an occasional nuisance then I guess I'll go stock, and it sounds

overall, people are very happy with the MAM floats. Also, by doing that

kind

of mod you would mary one plane and one pair of floats for life, and if

had to sell before building the floats it would be hard to justify to a
potential buyer.

On the attach point topic though, the manual has you join the upper legs

of

the doubled "A" float attach bulkheads by simply bending the aft facing

one

to meet the other one and riveting at the top. Why not just leave the

space between them like along the bottoms? It seems like you will end up
with unsightly converging rivet lines on the side skins if you do it

way, and it doesn't seem structurally necessary to join them.
Jesse

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Rebel rear float attach point
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:36:17 -0500

Sure now you bring that up after I made the rear attach/spreader

bulkheads

today...could have moved the darn things forward! But then they

fit
the existing attach gear that I have..so nah!

You could order a couple extra full size FL15-C bulkheads and then

the LG (rear bulkhead for gear well) bulkhead for the stub and spreader

bar

attachements. You'd just have to be careful while forming the LG

(ie: adjust from manual dimensions to form bottom flanges) as you would
need
to turn the flanges around to face forward so you could double it with

the

extra bulkhead for stub attachments. The flat face of the bulkhead

remain stationary to form the gear well...but this would move the

position about 3/4" forward when it comes to rivet hole postion on the
skins
and top deck...so could get fun....but VERY doable if you feel the need

to

deviate.

I know by take-off feel I've dunked the rear spreader a few times. The
trick
is to get moving first and then pull the stick back to start the
transistion
to the step. If you go around the lake doing plow turns...it's

dunked.

Wayne



----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:16 PM
Subject: Rebel rear float attach point

fitting

floats

It

and

can move

the

apparently moved

or

just



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From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Rebel rear float attach point
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 22:59:20 -0500

I meant to say "I doubt the few rivets at the top if you.... as you
said....
bend the aft one forward and rivet at the top" will add any strength beyond
the riveted strips and outside panel riveting.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel rear float attach point

You are going to join them with a strip on the inside anyhow. I doubt

the

few rivets at the top if you.... as you said.... bend the aft one

forward

and rivet at the top. Either way is fine. I've done it both ways...just
watch before your drill things for where the angle channel goes across
Fus-24 and comes against the double bulkheads so you can combine some

rivet

holes on the double bulkhead area.

Also if you want to avoid the converging rivet lines. Start tighter to

the

bulkhead flange base near the bottom and then you'll be slightly off

center

towards the open edge of the flange by the top of it if you make the

holes

parallel to the original bulkhead rivets.

Choice is yours!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel rear float attach point

Well thanks for the instructions Wayne, but I guess you said it best
yourself..nah! I will let someone else be the pioneer of that one. If

it's

only an occasional nuisance then I guess I'll go stock, and it sounds

like

overall, people are very happy with the MAM floats. Also, by doing

that

kind

of mod you would mary one plane and one pair of floats for life, and

if
I

had to sell before building the floats it would be hard to justify to

a

potential buyer.

On the attach point topic though, the manual has you join the upper

legs

of

the doubled "A" float attach bulkheads by simply bending the aft

facing

one

to meet the other one and riveting at the top. Why not just leave the

1/4"

space between them like along the bottoms? It seems like you will end

up

with unsightly converging rivet lines on the side skins if you do it

their

way, and it doesn't seem structurally necessary to join them.
Jesse

bulkheads

wouldn't

double

spreader

bar

bulkhead

would

with

the

would

flange

the

need

to

The

definitely

float

floats

Rebel?

It

aft

and

to

of

the

anyone

consider,

or

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From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Rebel rear float attach point
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 22:59:20 -0500

I meant to say "I doubt the few rivets at the top if you.... as you
said....
bend the aft one forward and rivet at the top" will add any strength beyond
the riveted strips and outside panel riveting.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel rear float attach point

You are going to join them with a strip on the inside anyhow. I doubt

the

few rivets at the top if you.... as you said.... bend the aft one

forward

and rivet at the top. Either way is fine. I've done it both ways...just
watch before your drill things for where the angle channel goes across
Fus-24 and comes against the double bulkheads so you can combine some

rivet

holes on the double bulkhead area.

Also if you want to avoid the converging rivet lines. Start tighter to

the

bulkhead flange base near the bottom and then you'll be slightly off

center

towards the open edge of the flange by the top of it if you make the

holes

parallel to the original bulkhead rivets.

Choice is yours!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel rear float attach point

Well thanks for the instructions Wayne, but I guess you said it best
yourself..nah! I will let someone else be the pioneer of that one. If

it's

only an occasional nuisance then I guess I'll go stock, and it sounds

like

overall, people are very happy with the MAM floats. Also, by doing

that

kind

of mod you would mary one plane and one pair of floats for life, and

if
I

had to sell before building the floats it would be hard to justify to

a

potential buyer.

On the attach point topic though, the manual has you join the upper

legs

of

the doubled "A" float attach bulkheads by simply bending the aft

facing

one

to meet the other one and riveting at the top. Why not just leave the

1/4"

space between them like along the bottoms? It seems like you will end

up

with unsightly converging rivet lines on the side skins if you do it

their

way, and it doesn't seem structurally necessary to join them.
Jesse

bulkheads

wouldn't

double

spreader

bar

bulkhead

would

with

the

would

flange

the

need

to

The

definitely

float

floats

Rebel?

It

aft

and

to

of

the

anyone

consider,

or

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Thank's Wayne,
Was there any other gotchas with the float fittings? I thought I remember
something you said a while back about alignment or something to do with
measuring how far they protrude from the skin.
Jesse

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Rebel rear float attach point
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 22:59:20 -0500

I meant to say "I doubt the few rivets at the top if you.... as you
said....
bend the aft one forward and rivet at the top" will add any strength

the riveted strips and outside panel riveting.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel rear float attach point

You are going to join them with a strip on the inside anyhow. I doubt

the

few rivets at the top if you.... as you said.... bend the aft one

forward

and rivet at the top. Either way is fine. I've done it both

watch before your drill things for where the angle channel goes across
Fus-24 and comes against the double bulkheads so you can combine some

rivet

holes on the double bulkhead area.

Also if you want to avoid the converging rivet lines. Start tighter to

the

bulkhead flange base near the bottom and then you'll be slightly off

center

towards the open edge of the flange by the top of it if you make the

holes

parallel to the original bulkhead rivets.

Choice is yours!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel rear float attach point

it's

like

that

kind

if
I

a

legs

of

facing

one

1/4"

up

their

bulkheads

wouldn't

double

spreader

bar

bulkhead

would

with

the

would

flange

the

need

to

The

definitely

float

floats

Rebel?

It

aft

and

to

of

the

anyone

consider,

or

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From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Rebel rear float attach point
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:26:41 -0500

I think I brought the distance issue up when I got the new float hard
points
from MAM, that I included in your kit, as I'd borrow the old ones from the
kit for Howard's rebuild. They made the attach point out further so they
could use the part universally with the Elite and the Rebel. Your's should
just be a matter of being sure you are centered on the bulhead and you're
good to go. As Walter pointed out a .063 doubler is a good idea extending
beyond the 1/2 circle cut outs in both directions on one of the double
bulkheads to avoid skin compression damage at the 1/2 circle cut out area
from less than perfect/high sea landings. I don't remember if I took the
time to include two of such a beast in your kit...I don't think so! :o(

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:00 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel rear float attach point

Thank's Wayne,
Was there any other gotchas with the float fittings? I thought I

remember

something you said a while back about alignment or something to do with
measuring how far they protrude from the skin.
Jesse

Thanks Wayne and Walter,
I will come up with a doubler for the bulkheads. I may have the right size
stock in my scrap bin, or maybe an .032 piece on each side?
Jesse

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Rebel rear float attach point
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:26:41 -0500

I think I brought the distance issue up when I got the new float hard
points
from MAM, that I included in your kit, as I'd borrow the old ones from

kit for Howard's rebuild. They made the attach point out further so they
could use the part universally with the Elite and the Rebel. Your's

just be a matter of being sure you are centered on the bulhead and you're
good to go. As Walter pointed out a .063 doubler is a good idea extending
beyond the 1/2 circle cut outs in both directions on one of the double
bulkheads to avoid skin compression damage at the 1/2 circle cut out area
from less than perfect/high sea landings. I don't remember if I took the
time to include two of such a beast in your kit...I don't think so! :o(

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:00 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel rear float attach point

Thank's Wayne,
Was there any other gotchas with the float fittings? I thought I

remember

something you said a while back about alignment or something to do

measuring how far they protrude from the skin.
Jesse

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From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Rebel rear float attach point
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 19:37:28 -0500

What you need is something thick enough to keep the weakened area at the
1/2
circle cutout from deforming/buckling. Don't think .032 is going to cut it.
I think the Elite doublers MAM supplies are .040 but dont' know that for
sure.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel rear float attach point

Thanks Wayne and Walter,
I will come up with a doubler for the bulkheads. I may have the right

size

stock in my scrap bin, or maybe an .032 piece on each side?
Jesse

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Rebel rear float attach point
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:26:41 -0500

I think I brought the distance issue up when I got the new float hard
points
from MAM, that I included in your kit, as I'd borrow the old ones from

the

kit for Howard's rebuild. They made the attach point out further so

they

could use the part universally with the Elite and the Rebel. Your's

should

just be a matter of being sure you are centered on the bulhead and

you're

good to go. As Walter pointed out a .063 doubler is a good idea

extending

beyond the 1/2 circle cut outs in both directions on one of the double
bulkheads to avoid skin compression damage at the 1/2 circle cut out

area

from less than perfect/high sea landings. I don't remember if I took

the

time to include two of such a beast in your kit...I don't think so! :o(

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:00 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel rear float attach point

remember

with

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