The Murphy Builders Site

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Your following message has been delivered to the 134 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 20:45:39 on 1 Dec 1999.
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Allister, Hard to compare apples to apples as mine that I just switched to
the O-320, has the old Piper bowl style cowl and the new one has the speed
cowl. Also mine has a warp drive prop and the new one a brand new
Sensenich. Both the Warp prop and the blunt cowl create more frontal drag in
a glide, so it's easier to slow the plane down, than the one with the speed
cowling. I regularly land and stop(no wind), in less than 300 feet with full
flaps. I never use full flaps for take off, only 8 degrees on wheels and 16
degrees on skis. Even on wheel skis I got off the ground with my 100Hp in
500 feet in deep powder snow. I now get off the ground in about 250 feet
with the 150hp on wheels.(and climb about 2000FPM at 1350lb) I can now go in
and out of my Mothers back farm field(about 450 feet fence rail to fence
rail) instead of Her having to drive to the airport to get me.(I used to be
able to get in, just not out)

Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 8:10 PM
Subject: FLAP MOD

Wayne, thanks for your feedback, the question I forgot to ask was,

ofcourse,

What sort of increase to the takeoff and land performance have you got by
using the direct linkage to your flaperons vs. the cable version?

Cheers

Alister



-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Thursday, December 02, 1999 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: FIREWALL PICTURES/FLAP MOD

Allister (and all), I've never had a problem slowing down into the flap
speed range, as with a 100HP O-235 I was usually in it already!!!!! Now

that

I have the 150 on the nose I will have to be a little more careful. The

last

couple weeks I have been flying both 150 hp Rebels, one for an hour and

then

the next, flying off a voluntary 25 hours passenger free, on both aircraft
with their new engines. (wife can replace me, but not our children!) I

find

the one with the teleflex cable can be flown around the circuit quite

easily

with full flaps down and no real need for the rudder pedals. This is

largely

because the 23degree ground setting looks like about 10(or less) when in

the

air (even as I cross the fence at 45MPH). Mine with the mechanical hook

up,

on the other hand has never flown a circuit without use of the rudder

pedals

to get you around the corners. I only select full flap, when lined up for
short final(and not on gusty days) because the only way it will turn with
full flaps selected is to kick it in the direction you want to go with the
rudder! Again mine are set 23 degrees max. down static and probably flex

up

to about 18 degrees at 60MPH. Note that the torque tube horns flex also,

not

just the cable! And remember, any flaperoned aircraft is usually led with
rudder and then flaperon in the turns! If you don't you will find you are
turning left and then need right stick to maintain the left turn! This is
especially true in a Kitfox or CH701! This is why alot of people split the
flaps, because they want it to fly like a Cessna, but in return they lose
most of the roll rate and half their flaps(because you can't put them down
any farther with out some extra hinges or reinforcement!) which increases
their obstacle clearance considerably! There is nothing more impressive to
observers than watching a Rebel fly over and then down the side of a tree,
landing pretty much at it's base! It's a pretty neat ride from the cockpit
also! (isn't it Bob and others that have learned how to make this great
plane do what it was designed to do!(and then some))

Murphy's answer to any mod is don't do it! This is strictly a liability
issue on Darryl's part and you can't blame him at all for that!!!!!!(he

has

busted his ass for 14+ years, to get Murphy where it is and it's not worth
losing everything over someone's botched modification!) The two hinges are
more than enough to take the load at 23 degrees within the flap speed

range.

(they don't blow off at 130 either and don't ask how I know!) Most
non-structural and cosmetic mods are pretty safe for anyone to do.
Structural items on the other hand, like wing extensions etc., you had
better know what you are doing and how to do the load calculations. I

looked

at adding 3 feet to each wing, similar to the 18" art wing extensions for

a

Cessna 185, but when I did the math, I didn't like the numbers and scraped
the idea.(besides, the extra 50HP has since fixed the climb rate anyway!)
Wing tips also seem to be getting longer and longer, and sooner or later

(if

they get any longer) someone is going to buckle up a wing. (this happened
with some Cessna's using the ART wing extension, and in hindsight they

found

not all wings had a required stiffener in them.) So everyone, please make
sure you know what you are doing, before you do it outside the scope of

the

manual!

Enough rambling from me, (Allister)I've got to get down and over to your
great country one day! Looked at flying the outback tour once, but

couldn't

find the time!(would have to be a month minimum to make it worth while I
think!)

Blue Skies and Tailwinds, Wayne

-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: FIREWALL PICTURES/FLAP MOD

Wayne hi,

Thanks for the reply, the 63 thou plates should be heavy enough! I have
incorporated 32 thou plates and the Murphy mod, also done something

similar

to you and placed a channel under the 'bathtub' top engine mount back to

the

witches hat on the sidewall and enlarged the doubler and placed on the
outside.

I was interested in your mod in placing a mechanical linkage onto the
flaperon. It seems at first glance to be a good idea when you look at the
amount of flex in the cable supplied. ( you're not talking just a few
degrees here, you seem to lose at least half your flaperon deflection as
soon as you rotate.)

I would be interested in your feedback on a couple of points.

Firstly, even with the reduced deflection because of the cable flexing

the

aircraft takes on a completely different set of characteristics in

relation

to adverse yaw, with a mechanical linkage presumably using the full 18
degrees how do you find the handling of the aircraft in this area.

Secondly, I contacted Murphy in regard to possibly doing a mod along

these

lines, their comments suggested that flex in the cable is a great safety
device, it is almost impossible to stress this area because the higher

the

loading the more the cable flexes, even if you exceed the flap speed it

is

not such a big drama.

Any comments?

Did you add more flaperon hinge points when you did you mod?

Cheers

Alister



-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Thursday, December 02, 1999 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: FIREWALL PICTURES

forget

matter

perimeter

sheet

have

Rebels!

the

though,

it

that

Flaps!

Rebel.

No the

Cessna's

if

I

his

flying

doubler

? fun

mount

*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*

*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*

*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*

*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*




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Wayne, thanks for your feedback, the question I forgot to ask was, ofcourse,
What sort of increase to the takeoff and land performance have you got by
using the direct linkage to your flaperons vs. the cable version?

Cheers

Alister



-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Thursday, December 02, 1999 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: FIREWALL PICTURES/FLAP MOD

Allister (and all), I've never had a problem slowing down into the flap
speed range, as with a 100HP O-235 I was usually in it already!!!!! Now

that

I have the 150 on the nose I will have to be a little more careful. The

last

couple weeks I have been flying both 150 hp Rebels, one for an hour and

then

the next, flying off a voluntary 25 hours passenger free, on both aircraft
with their new engines. (wife can replace me, but not our children!) I

find

the one with the teleflex cable can be flown around the circuit quite

easily

with full flaps down and no real need for the rudder pedals. This is

largely

because the 23degree ground setting looks like about 10(or less) when in

the

air (even as I cross the fence at 45MPH). Mine with the mechanical hook up,
on the other hand has never flown a circuit without use of the rudder

pedals

to get you around the corners. I only select full flap, when lined up for
short final(and not on gusty days) because the only way it will turn with
full flaps selected is to kick it in the direction you want to go with the
rudder! Again mine are set 23 degrees max. down static and probably flex up
to about 18 degrees at 60MPH. Note that the torque tube horns flex also,

not

just the cable! And remember, any flaperoned aircraft is usually led with
rudder and then flaperon in the turns! If you don't you will find you are
turning left and then need right stick to maintain the left turn! This is
especially true in a Kitfox or CH701! This is why alot of people split the
flaps, because they want it to fly like a Cessna, but in return they lose
most of the roll rate and half their flaps(because you can't put them down
any farther with out some extra hinges or reinforcement!) which increases
their obstacle clearance considerably! There is nothing more impressive to
observers than watching a Rebel fly over and then down the side of a tree,
landing pretty much at it's base! It's a pretty neat ride from the cockpit
also! (isn't it Bob and others that have learned how to make this great
plane do what it was designed to do!(and then some))

Murphy's answer to any mod is don't do it! This is strictly a liability
issue on Darryl's part and you can't blame him at all for that!!!!!!(he has
busted his ass for 14+ years, to get Murphy where it is and it's not worth
losing everything over someone's botched modification!) The two hinges are
more than enough to take the load at 23 degrees within the flap speed

range.

(they don't blow off at 130 either and don't ask how I know!) Most
non-structural and cosmetic mods are pretty safe for anyone to do.
Structural items on the other hand, like wing extensions etc., you had
better know what you are doing and how to do the load calculations. I

looked

at adding 3 feet to each wing, similar to the 18" art wing extensions for a
Cessna 185, but when I did the math, I didn't like the numbers and scraped
the idea.(besides, the extra 50HP has since fixed the climb rate anyway!)
Wing tips also seem to be getting longer and longer, and sooner or later

(if

they get any longer) someone is going to buckle up a wing. (this happened
with some Cessna's using the ART wing extension, and in hindsight they

found

not all wings had a required stiffener in them.) So everyone, please make
sure you know what you are doing, before you do it outside the scope of the
manual!

Enough rambling from me, (Allister)I've got to get down and over to your
great country one day! Looked at flying the outback tour once, but couldn't
find the time!(would have to be a month minimum to make it worth while I
think!)

Blue Skies and Tailwinds, Wayne

-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: FIREWALL PICTURES/FLAP MOD

Wayne hi,

Thanks for the reply, the 63 thou plates should be heavy enough! I have
incorporated 32 thou plates and the Murphy mod, also done something

similar

to you and placed a channel under the 'bathtub' top engine mount back to

the

witches hat on the sidewall and enlarged the doubler and placed on the
outside.

I was interested in your mod in placing a mechanical linkage onto the
flaperon. It seems at first glance to be a good idea when you look at the
amount of flex in the cable supplied. ( you're not talking just a few
degrees here, you seem to lose at least half your flaperon deflection as
soon as you rotate.)

I would be interested in your feedback on a couple of points.

Firstly, even with the reduced deflection because of the cable flexing the
aircraft takes on a completely different set of characteristics in

relation

to adverse yaw, with a mechanical linkage presumably using the full 18
degrees how do you find the handling of the aircraft in this area.

Secondly, I contacted Murphy in regard to possibly doing a mod along these
lines, their comments suggested that flex in the cable is a great safety
device, it is almost impossible to stress this area because the higher the
loading the more the cable flexes, even if you exceed the flap speed it is
not such a big drama.

Any comments?

Did you add more flaperon hinge points when you did you mod?

Cheers

Alister



-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Thursday, December 02, 1999 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: FIREWALL PICTURES

Ken, not sure what double row of rivets you are talking about! I did

forget

in my e-mail to Allister yesterday, that I build every aircraft, no

matter

what engine goes on, with a double "stagered" row of rivets up the door
post. If you are talking about the line of rivets going around the

perimeter

of the firewall, this firewall was done by the previous owner with a

sheet

of stainless riveted over top of the original aluminum. And YES you are
right this aircraft and its Mods are like Lays Potato Chips!(you can't

have

just one) In my case thats true for both the Mods and the number of

Rebels!

My #1 personal Rebel has aluminum flaperons(counter balanced), flaps on

the

floor(totally mechanically linked to get rid of the play and flex of
teleflex cable), 4 fully adjustable seats, etc. etc. etc. Over time

though,

most of these novelties wear off and you will wish you had of just built

it

by the book and been enjoying the flight characteristics of the craft,

that

much sooner. If I may be Bold, one mod I absolutely hate is Electric

Flaps!

Couldn't stand them in a newer model Cessna, can't stand them in a Rebel.

No

two landings are ever the same with electric flaps because you can't get

the

same position at the swing of a lever! This is the main reason 185

Cessna's

are the prefered Cessna on floats, because of their manual flaps! Sorry

if

I

offended anyone with this mod already completed, but I watch a gentleman
with this Mod in his Rebel, spend most of his flight time playing with

his

Electric flap switch, trying to get them in the right place!(and not

flying

the aircraft!)

Wayne

-----Original Message-----
From: klehman@albedo.net <klehman@albedo.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: FIREWALL PICTURES

would be

doubler

?

fun

eh! from *----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*

*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*

*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*

*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*




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