rebel ul weight increase

[eric.breetvelt]

Hi i have been observing this site for a while and am impressed with your
collective knowhow.I am building a 1200lb rebel with the 912s rotax and with
the latestr sports cat licence I want to upgrade to 1450lbs is there any
difference structualy. My kit has the flattened tube struts as well as fabric
elevator and rudder.The leading edge skin is .20 and has the 1600 main spar
the rear spar is.032 .The only other ul is the alluminium panel with the
rear window in it[fus-24-ul].O yes I have the spring gear on it.the fabric
supplied is light fabric.



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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

My first BIG caution would be that the weight limit is 1232 lbs for the LSA
category..... as it was designed around and to match our TP10141's weight
limit of 1232lbs (and your LSA permit will not allow you to fly anything
heavier than that!) .

Not sure what the limit is on the lighter squashed 3" tube lift struts,
contact Murphy for definite answers. They are used on the Cdn AULA that MAM
had limited per regs at 1058lbs.

As for leading edge skins....all the Rebels are .020. Rear spar sounds
okay...or you sure you have 1650lbs main spars that are .063 and not the
lighter .050 that I believe was limited to 1400 lbs on the Rebel - Light
models in the USA.

Strange you have a different Fus-24. Seems strange...never seen that. Is it
.016 instead of .020??

U could also replace the tail feather fabric with the purchase of elevator
and rudder skins.... if you wished for a little more ruggedness down in the
weeds!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <eric.breetvelt@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 1:28 AM
Subject: rebel ul weight increase

Hi i have been observing this site for a while and am impressed with your
collective knowhow.I am building a 1200lb rebel with the 912s rotax and

with

the latestr sports cat licence I want to upgrade to 1450lbs is there any
difference structualy. My kit has the flattened tube struts as well as

fabric

elevator and rudder.The leading edge skin is .20 and has the 1600 main

spar

the rear spar is.032 .The only other ul is the alluminium panel with the
rear window in it[fus-24-ul].O yes I have the spring gear on it.the fabric
supplied is light fabric.



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[Ralph Baker]

The original US Light Sport Aircraft gross weight limit was 1232 pounds. The final official gross is 1320 with an additional allowance for floats (5% I think). To fly under LSA regs the aircraft must never have been certified at more than 1320 pounds. Some of the Ercoupe guys who had uprated via STC were disappointed that they could not undo the STC gross and fly as LSAs.

A 1320 gross Rebel built light with a Rotax 912S still has substantial useful load.
Ralph Baker



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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Thanks for the clarification Ralph!!

You're right LOTS of useful load as I have built one (912 Rebel) with an
empty weight of 658lbs...and YES it was weighted on digital scales.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 6:02 PM
Subject: Rebel UL weight increase

The original US Light Sport Aircraft gross weight limit was 1232 pounds.

The final official gross is 1320 with an additional allowance for floats (5%
I think). To fly under LSA regs the aircraft must never have been certified
at more than 1320 pounds. Some of the Ercoupe guys who had uprated via STC
were disappointed that they could not undo the STC gross and fly as LSAs.

A 1320 gross Rebel built light with a Rotax 912S still has substantial

useful load.

Ralph Baker



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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

1/4" bolts are fine with the 912 mounting. That is what the mount was made
to have in them...at least on my mounts and verified with MAM at the
time....due to the lower engine weight compared to a lycoming.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <eric.breetvelt@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel UL weight increase

On 12/6/2005 2:08 PM, oifa@irishfield.on.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Thanks for the clarification Ralph!!
->
-> You're right LOTS of useful load as I have built one (912 Rebel) with

an

-> empty weight of 658lbs...and YES it was weighted on digital scales.
->
-> Wayne
->
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
-> To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 6:02 PM
-> Subject: Rebel UL weight increase
->
->
-> > The original US Light Sport Aircraft gross weight limit was 1232

pounds.

-> The final official gross is 1320 with an additional allowance for

floats

(5%
-> I think). To fly under LSA regs the aircraft must never have
been certified
-> at more than 1320 pounds. Some of the Ercoupe guys who had uprated via

STC

-> were disappointed that they could not undo the STC gross and fly as

LSAs.

-> >
-> > A 1320 gross Rebel built light with a Rotax 912S still has

substantial

-> useful load.
-> > Ralph Baker
-> >Thanks for that,down here in new zealand our ul limit is 1200lb and

to

go to 1450lbs I would have to go to the experimental catagory which im

happy

with at the moment while my medical is ok.I will try MAM again about the
struts.Just aside to that I have put the engine mount on with 1/4" AN

bolts

-> >The manual doesnt cover this ,are they correct or should I use special
bolts for this

-> >
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[eric.breetvelt]

Thanks for that Wayne, the main spar is 0.063 and the fus-24 is 0.016. I
have got an aluminium rudder skin, do you think I would cut down on baggage
payload by adding that weight in the tail, or is it negligable. What would
get the biggest hiding, the elevators or the rudder in the long grass?

Cheers, Eric

On 12/6/2005 7:21 PM, oifa@irishfield.on.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

-> 1/4" bolts are fine with the 912 mounting. That is what the mount was made
-> to have in them...at least on my mounts and verified with MAM at the
-> time....due to the lower engine weight compared to a lycoming.
->
-> Wayne
->
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: <eric.breetvelt@dcsol.com>
-> To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 7:51 PM
-> Subject: Re: Rebel UL weight increase
->
->
-> > On 12/6/2005 2:08 PM, oifa@irishfield.on.ca wrote to rebel-builders:
-> >
-> > -> Thanks for the clarification Ralph!!
-> > ->
-> > -> You're right LOTS of useful load as I have built one (912 Rebel) with
-> an
-> > -> empty weight of 658lbs...and YES it was weighted on digital scales.
-> > ->
-> > -> Wayne
-> > ->
-> > -> ----- Original Message -----
-> > -> From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
-> > -> To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> > -> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 6:02 PM
-> > -> Subject: Rebel UL weight increase
-> > ->
-> > ->
-> > -> > The original US Light Sport Aircraft gross weight limit was 1232
-> pounds.
-> > -> The final official gross is 1320 with an additional allowance for
-> floats
-> > (5%
-> > -> I think). To fly under LSA regs the aircraft must never have
-> > been certified
-> > -> at more than 1320 pounds. Some of the Ercoupe guys who had uprated
via
-> STC
-> > -> were disappointed that they could not undo the STC gross and fly as
-> LSAs.
-> > -> >
-> > -> > A 1320 gross Rebel built light with a Rotax 912S still has
-> substantial
-> > -> useful load.
-> > -> > Ralph Baker
-> > -> >Thanks for that,down here in new zealand our ul limit is 1200lb and
-> to
-> > go to 1450lbs I would have to go to the experimental catagory which im
-> happy
-> > with at the moment while my medical is ok.I will try MAM again about the
-> > struts.Just aside to that I have put the engine mount on with 1/4" AN
-> bolts
-> > -> >The manual doesnt cover this ,are they correct or should I use
special
-> > bolts for this
-> >
-> > -> >
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[eric.breetvelt]

Yes Wayne the spars are .063 and long tail cone .020 ,the kit was sent out
to me just before christmas 1997 and I have a fealing that many ul parts
were unavailable and they threw in standard rebel parts they still had to
send me a fairly big back order at the time , I have made up the elevator
and trim and like you say it took many gussets I had to make up a box section
for the trim spar because on its own as a chanel it had no ridgidity in the
twist

cheers eric

On 12/7/2005 6:01 AM, oifa@irishfield.on.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

-> I covered both rudder and elevator on my AULA model Eric, that I stated
-> weighed in at 658lbs. All a preference as to what you want to do with your
-> machine as to replacing tail fabric with aluminum.
->
-> The weight im my honest opinion is neglegable...because if you go with
-> fabric you will be adding triangular gussets to every rib/spar junction...a
-> trailing edge and gussets and have a more difficult time installing
elevator
-> trim mechanism.
->
-> Funny you have .063 main spars.....yet for some reason they made your
-> Fus-24's out of .016. Your long tailcone tops/bottoms/sides are .020 are
-> they not??
->
-> Wayne
->
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: <eric.breetvelt@dcsol.com>
-> To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 1:05 AM
-> Subject: Re: Rebel UL weight increase
->
->
-> > Thanks for that Wayne, the main spar is 0.063 and the fus-24 is 0.016. I
-> > have got an aluminium rudder skin, do you think I would cut down on
-> baggage
-> > payload by adding that weight in the tail, or is it negligable. What
-> would
-> > get the biggest hiding, the elevators or the rudder in the long grass?
-> >
-> > Cheers, Eric
-> >
-> > On 12/6/2005 7:21 PM, oifa@irishfield.on.ca wrote to rebel-builders:
-> >
-> > -> 1/4" bolts are fine with the 912 mounting. That is what the mount was
-> made
-> > -> to have in them...at least on my mounts and verified with MAM at the
-> > -> time....due to the lower engine weight compared to a lycoming.
-> > ->
-> > -> Wayne
-> > ->
-> > -> ----- Original Message -----
-> > -> From: <eric.breetvelt@dcsol.com>
-> > -> To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> > -> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 7:51 PM
-> > -> Subject: Re: Rebel UL weight increase
-> > ->
-> > ->
-> > -> > On 12/6/2005 2:08 PM, oifa@irishfield.on.ca wrote to rebel-builders:
-> > -> >
-> > -> > -> Thanks for the clarification Ralph!!
-> > -> > ->
-> > -> > -> You're right LOTS of useful load as I have built one (912 Rebel)
-> with
-> > -> an
-> > -> > -> empty weight of 658lbs...and YES it was weighted on digital
-> scales.
-> > -> > ->
-> > -> > -> Wayne
-> > -> > ->
-> > -> > -> ----- Original Message -----
-> > -> > -> From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
-> > -> > -> To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> > -> > -> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 6:02 PM
-> > -> > -> Subject: Rebel UL weight increase
-> > -> > ->
-> > -> > ->
-> > -> > -> > The original US Light Sport Aircraft gross weight limit was
1232
-> > -> pounds.
-> > -> > -> The final official gross is 1320 with an additional allowance for
-> > -> floats
-> > -> > (5%
-> > -> > -> I think). To fly under LSA regs the aircraft must never have
-> > -> > been certified
-> > -> > -> at more than 1320 pounds. Some of the Ercoupe guys who had
-> uprated
-> > via
-> > -> STC
-> > -> > -> were disappointed that they could not undo the STC gross and fly
-> as
-> > -> LSAs.
-> > -> > -> >
-> > -> > -> > A 1320 gross Rebel built light with a Rotax 912S still has
-> > -> substantial
-> > -> > -> useful load.
-> > -> > -> > Ralph Baker
-> > -> > -> >Thanks for that,down here in new zealand our ul limit is 1200lb
-> and
-> > -> to
-> > -> > go to 1450lbs I would have to go to the experimental catagory which
-> im
-> > -> happy
-> > -> > with at the moment while my medical is ok.I will try MAM again about
-> the
-> > -> > struts.Just aside to that I have put the engine mount on with 1/4"
AN
-> > -> bolts
-> > -> > -> >The manual doesnt cover this ,are they correct or should I use
-> > special
-> > -> > bolts for this
-> > -> >
-> > -> > -> >
-> > -> > ->
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
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-> > -> > -> > username "rebel" password "builder"
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-> > -> > ->
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > -> > -> >
-> > -> > -> >
-> > -> > -> >
-> > -> > -> >
-> > -> > ->
-> > -> > ->
-> > -> > ->
-> > -> >
-> > -> >
-> > -> >
-> > -> >
-> > -> >
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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

I covered both rudder and elevator on my AULA model Eric, that I stated
weighed in at 658lbs. All a preference as to what you want to do with your
machine as to replacing tail fabric with aluminum.

The weight im my honest opinion is neglegable...because if you go with
fabric you will be adding triangular gussets to every rib/spar junction...a
trailing edge and gussets and have a more difficult time installing elevator
trim mechanism.

Funny you have .063 main spars.....yet for some reason they made your
Fus-24's out of .016. Your long tailcone tops/bottoms/sides are .020 are
they not??

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <eric.breetvelt@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 1:05 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel UL weight increase

Thanks for that Wayne, the main spar is 0.063 and the fus-24 is 0.016. I
have got an aluminium rudder skin, do you think I would cut down on

baggage

payload by adding that weight in the tail, or is it negligable. What

would

get the biggest hiding, the elevators or the rudder in the long grass?

Cheers, Eric

On 12/6/2005 7:21 PM, oifa@irishfield.on.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

-> 1/4" bolts are fine with the 912 mounting. That is what the mount was

made

-> to have in them...at least on my mounts and verified with MAM at the
-> time....due to the lower engine weight compared to a lycoming.
->
-> Wayne
->
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: <eric.breetvelt@dcsol.com>
-> To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 7:51 PM
-> Subject: Re: Rebel UL weight increase
->
->
-> > On 12/6/2005 2:08 PM, oifa@irishfield.on.ca wrote to rebel-builders:
-> >
-> > -> Thanks for the clarification Ralph!!
-> > ->
-> > -> You're right LOTS of useful load as I have built one (912 Rebel)

with

-> an
-> > -> empty weight of 658lbs...and YES it was weighted on digital

scales.

-> > ->
-> > -> Wayne
-> > ->
-> > -> ----- Original Message -----
-> > -> From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
-> > -> To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> > -> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 6:02 PM
-> > -> Subject: Rebel UL weight increase
-> > ->
-> > ->
-> > -> > The original US Light Sport Aircraft gross weight limit was 1232
-> pounds.
-> > -> The final official gross is 1320 with an additional allowance for
-> floats
-> > (5%
-> > -> I think). To fly under LSA regs the aircraft must never have
-> > been certified
-> > -> at more than 1320 pounds. Some of the Ercoupe guys who had

uprated

via
-> STC
-> > -> were disappointed that they could not undo the STC gross and fly

as

-> LSAs.
-> > -> >
-> > -> > A 1320 gross Rebel built light with a Rotax 912S still has
-> substantial
-> > -> useful load.
-> > -> > Ralph Baker
-> > -> >Thanks for that,down here in new zealand our ul limit is 1200lb

and

-> to
-> > go to 1450lbs I would have to go to the experimental catagory which

im

-> happy
-> > with at the moment while my medical is ok.I will try MAM again about

the

-> > struts.Just aside to that I have put the engine mount on with 1/4" AN
-> bolts
-> > -> >The manual doesnt cover this ,are they correct or should I use
special
-> > bolts for this
-> >
-> > -> >
-> > ->
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