The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:29 pm**

G'day Everyone !

If you all remember , a short while ago I wrote and told you about Peter Giumelli's demise and that his son Pierre wanted to know some information so he could correctly advertise and dispose of his father's Rebel kit

We are now trying to ascertain if Peter was building an ultralight version of the Rebel [1,450lbs ] , or a full Rebel at 1,650lbs ....

Peter's kit number was 451 .... and apparently it says in the paperwork that this kit has the modifications to bring it up to 1,650lbs

Can anyone tell me what these "modifications" are ? - so we can ascertain whether or not the Rebel being built by Peter was meant to be 1,650lbs or 1,450lbs

thanks everyone

Rick Harper
541 R

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:29 pm**

Rick, look at the main spars...should be .063 thick. If they are .050 then
limit it to 1450lbs or buy a new set of spars. Everything else is the same
in the wings as long as it's not an AULA and they (mine anyhow) had
lightening holes cut in the rear wing spars and I replaced them as well
before selling my kit to Jesse.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@optusnet.com.au>
To: "REBEL FORUM" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 4:33 PM
Subject: Rebel Kit info

G'day Everyone !

If you all remember , a short while ago I wrote and told you about

Peter Giumelli's demise and that his son Pierre wanted to know some
information so he could correctly advertise and dispose of his father's
Rebel kit

We are now trying to ascertain if Peter was building an ultralight version

of the Rebel [1,450lbs ] , or a full Rebel at 1,650lbs ....

Peter's kit number was 451 .... and apparently it says in the paperwork

that this kit has the modifications to bring it up to 1,650lbs

Can anyone tell me what these "modifications" are ? - so we can ascertain

whether or not the Rebel being built by Peter was meant to be 1,650lbs or
1,450lbs

thanks everyone

Rick Harper
541 R

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:29 pm**

Thanks Wayne !

(geeeeez ..... what took you so long to reply

Rick "Biggus" Harper
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel Kit info

Rick, look at the main spars...should be .063 thick. If they are .050 then
limit it to 1450lbs or buy a new set of spars. Everything else is the same
in the wings as long as it's not an AULA and they (mine anyhow) had
lightening holes cut in the rear wing spars and I replaced them as well
before selling my kit to Jesse.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@optusnet.com.au>
To: "REBEL FORUM" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 4:33 PM
Subject: Rebel Kit info

G'day Everyone !

If you all remember , a short while ago I wrote and told you about

Peter Giumelli's demise and that his son Pierre wanted to know some
information so he could correctly advertise and dispose of his father's
Rebel kit

We are now trying to ascertain if Peter was building an ultralight version

of the Rebel [1,450lbs ] , or a full Rebel at 1,650lbs ....

Peter's kit number was 451 .... and apparently it says in the paperwork

that this kit has the modifications to bring it up to 1,650lbs

Can anyone tell me what these "modifications" are ? - so we can ascertain

whether or not the Rebel being built by Peter was meant to be 1,650lbs or
1,450lbs

thanks everyone

Rick Harper
541 R

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:29 pm**

)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@optusnet.com.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel Kit info

Thanks Wayne !

(geeeeez ..... what took you so long to reply

Rick "Biggus" Harper
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel Kit info

Rick, look at the main spars...should be .063 thick. If they are .050

then

limit it to 1450lbs or buy a new set of spars. Everything else is the

same

in the wings as long as it's not an AULA and they (mine anyhow) had
lightening holes cut in the rear wing spars and I replaced them as well
before selling my kit to Jesse.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@optusnet.com.au>
To: "REBEL FORUM" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 4:33 PM
Subject: Rebel Kit info

G'day Everyone !

If you all remember , a short while ago I wrote and told you about
Peter Giumelli's demise and that his son Pierre wanted to know some
information so he could correctly advertise and dispose of his father's
Rebel kit
We are now trying to ascertain if Peter was building an ultralight

version

of the Rebel [1,450lbs ] , or a full Rebel at 1,650lbs ....
Peter's kit number was 451 .... and apparently it says in the

paperwork

that this kit has the modifications to bring it up to 1,650lbs
Can anyone tell me what these "modifications" are ? - so we can

ascertain

whether or not the Rebel being built by Peter was meant to be 1,650lbs

or

1,450lbs
thanks everyone

Rick Harper
541 R

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:29 pm**

Don't forget the heavier root ribs, with the reinforcing flanges added,
and the triple-tube-within-a-tube landing gear center struts.....
and the silver (not gold !) Matco or JDM wheels and brakes ......

And the ultralight Rebels had fabric covered elevators and rudder...

Other than that, they were almost the same ! ;-)

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Sunday 04 December 2005 04:40 pm, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Rick, look at the main spars...should be .063 thick. If they are .050 then
limit it to 1450lbs or buy a new set of spars. Everything else is the same
in the wings as long as it's not an AULA and they (mine anyhow) had
lightening holes cut in the rear wing spars and I replaced them as well
before selling my kit to Jesse.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@optusnet.com.au>
To: "REBEL FORUM" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 4:33 PM
Subject: Rebel Kit info

G'day Everyone !

If you all remember , a short while ago I wrote and told you about
Peter Giumelli's demise and that his son Pierre wanted to know some
information so he could correctly advertise and dispose of his father's
Rebel kit
We are now trying to ascertain if Peter was building an ultralight

version

of the Rebel [1,450lbs ] , or a full Rebel at 1,650lbs ....
Peter's kit number was 451 .... and apparently it says in the paperwork
that this kit has the modifications to bring it up to 1,650lbs
Can anyone tell me what these "modifications" are ? - so we can

ascertain

whether or not the Rebel being built by Peter was meant to be 1,650lbs or
1,450lbs
thanks everyone

Rick Harper
541 R

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:29 pm**

Yes a few other changes thru the years...but at serial 451 I doubt he was
getting Gold wheels unless it was indeed an Ultralight model of the AULA
kind with 5/8" axles. I will also note I am still flying on the gold 3/4"
axle, straight roller bearing Matco wheels with my second set of bearings in
11 years. First set died from overtightening and just the taxi tests before
I even flew it and took the sides out of the races. Other than that no
problems at ANY weight I've thrown at them (or on penetration skis) and
prefer the (lack) of braking available with these wheels over the MAM three
piece wheels.

As for the heavier wing root ribs??? don't follow you there Bob other than
maybe the W-161 front spar angle bracket to pick up the leading edge rib and
tie it to the front spar. Other than that identical construction (other
than 1650 added one l.e. rib at 6" outboard of the root) and actually later
manuals on the 1650 dropped the totally doubling of the leading edge root
rib and have you cut all the flanges off on the internesting second rib. I
still do them leaving all the flanges on for a doubled flange to rivet to.

Gear......well you know I throw away the struts : O )) ...and the legs
themselves Ultralights have a single 1" square main leg...where as the 1650
airplane has a 1 1/4" leg and 1" stub at top to join to the fuselage FUS-2
Gusset.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel Kit info

Don't forget the heavier root ribs, with the reinforcing flanges

added,

and the triple-tube-within-a-tube landing gear center struts.....
and the silver (not gold !) Matco or JDM wheels and brakes ......

And the ultralight Rebels had fabric covered elevators and rudder...

Other than that, they were almost the same ! ;-)

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Sunday 04 December 2005 04:40 pm, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
Rick, look at the main spars...should be .063 thick. If they are .050

then

limit it to 1450lbs or buy a new set of spars. Everything else is the

same

in the wings as long as it's not an AULA and they (mine anyhow) had
lightening holes cut in the rear wing spars and I replaced them as well
before selling my kit to Jesse.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@optusnet.com.au>
To: "REBEL FORUM" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 4:33 PM
Subject: Rebel Kit info

G'day Everyone !

If you all remember , a short while ago I wrote and told you about
Peter Giumelli's demise and that his son Pierre wanted to know some
information so he could correctly advertise and dispose of his father's
Rebel kit
We are now trying to ascertain if Peter was building an ultralight
version
of the Rebel [1,450lbs ] , or a full Rebel at 1,650lbs ....
Peter's kit number was 451 .... and apparently it says in the

paperwork

that this kit has the modifications to bring it up to 1,650lbs
Can anyone tell me what these "modifications" are ? - so we can
ascertain
whether or not the Rebel being built by Peter was meant to be 1,650lbs

or

1,450lbs
thanks everyone

Rick Harper
541 R

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:29 pm**

Hi Rick
My 1650# upgrade for 119R included several wing components - the most
obvious being the extra leading edge rib located 6 inches out from the
wing root rib and a doubled leading edge root rib and reinforcements.
Also heavier landing gear struts - I just measured the originals at
1"od. square tube - the upgrades were 1.25" square I believe. Someone
mentioned once that their Rebel was supposed to be 1650# but the
original builder did not install the extra main spar caps in the area of
the strut attachment so that might be worth a look too.
Maybe that stuff is standard on an ultralight now ??
Ken

Rick Harper wrote:

G'day Everyone !

If you all remember , a short while ago I wrote and told you about Peter Giumelli's demise and that his son Pierre wanted to know some information so he could correctly advertise and dispose of his father's Rebel kit

We are now trying to ascertain if Peter was building an ultralight version of the Rebel [1,450lbs ] , or a full Rebel at 1,650lbs ....

Peter's kit number was 451 .... and apparently it says in the paperwork that this kit has the modifications to bring it up to 1,650lbs

Can anyone tell me what these "modifications" are ? - so we can ascertain whether or not the Rebel being built by Peter was meant to be 1,650lbs or 1,450lbs

thanks everyone

Rick Harper
541 R

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:29 pm**

Thanks Ken !

Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel Kit info

Hi Rick
My 1650# upgrade for 119R included several wing components - the most
obvious being the extra leading edge rib located 6 inches out from the
wing root rib and a doubled leading edge root rib and reinforcements.
Also heavier landing gear struts - I just measured the originals at
1"od. square tube - the upgrades were 1.25" square I believe. Someone
mentioned once that their Rebel was supposed to be 1650# but the
original builder did not install the extra main spar caps in the area of
the strut attachment so that might be worth a look too.
Maybe that stuff is standard on an ultralight now ??
Ken

Rick Harper wrote:

G'day Everyone !

If you all remember , a short while ago I wrote and told you about Peter Giumelli's demise and that his son Pierre wanted to know some information so he could correctly advertise and dispose of his father's Rebel kit

We are now trying to ascertain if Peter was building an ultralight version of the Rebel [1,450lbs ] , or a full Rebel at 1,650lbs ....

Peter's kit number was 451 .... and apparently it says in the paperwork that this kit has the modifications to bring it up to 1,650lbs

Can anyone tell me what these "modifications" are ? - so we can ascertain whether or not the Rebel being built by Peter was meant to be 1,650lbs or 1,450lbs

thanks everyone

Rick Harper
541 R

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:29 pm**

I had no problems with the gold Matcos either - FINR got 15 years
with no problems, and FOKM is still flying with them, I think...
and probably many others out there !

Sorry - should have said "doubled" root rib, and doubled extra
LE rib -- not 'heavier' ...

Just wanted to throw in a few more things to look at, as well as
the spars - just so he could be sure it was a 1,650 Rebel.

Thanks Ken - I knew there was a list of parts out there somewhere ! :-)

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Sunday 04 December 2005 05:43 pm, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Yes a few other changes thru the years...but at serial 451 I doubt he was
getting Gold wheels unless it was indeed an Ultralight model of the AULA
kind with 5/8" axles. I will also note I am still flying on the gold 3/4"
axle, straight roller bearing Matco wheels with my second set of bearings

in

11 years. First set died from overtightening and just the taxi tests

before

I even flew it and took the sides out of the races. Other than that no
problems at ANY weight I've thrown at them (or on penetration skis) and
prefer the (lack) of braking available with these wheels over the MAM

three

piece wheels.

As for the heavier wing root ribs??? don't follow you there Bob other than
maybe the W-161 front spar angle bracket to pick up the leading edge rib

and

tie it to the front spar. Other than that identical construction (other
than 1650 added one l.e. rib at 6" outboard of the root) and actually

later

manuals on the 1650 dropped the totally doubling of the leading edge root
rib and have you cut all the flanges off on the internesting second rib. I
still do them leaving all the flanges on for a doubled flange to rivet to.

Gear......well you know I throw away the struts : O )) ...and the legs
themselves Ultralights have a single 1" square main leg...where as the

1650

airplane has a 1 1/4" leg and 1" stub at top to join to the fuselage FUS-2
Gusset.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel Kit info

Don't forget the heavier root ribs, with the reinforcing flanges
added,
and the triple-tube-within-a-tube landing gear center struts.....
and the silver (not gold !) Matco or JDM wheels and brakes ......

And the ultralight Rebels had fabric covered elevators and rudder...

Other than that, they were almost the same ! ;-)

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Sunday 04 December 2005 04:40 pm, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
Rick, look at the main spars...should be .063 thick. If they are .050
then
limit it to 1450lbs or buy a new set of spars. Everything else is the
same
in the wings as long as it's not an AULA and they (mine anyhow) had
lightening holes cut in the rear wing spars and I replaced them as

well

before selling my kit to Jesse.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@optusnet.com.au>
To: "REBEL FORUM" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 4:33 PM
Subject: Rebel Kit info

about

Peter Giumelli's demise and that his son Pierre wanted to know some
information so he could correctly advertise and dispose of his

father's

Rebel kit
version
of the Rebel [1,450lbs ] , or a full Rebel at 1,650lbs ....
paperwork
that this kit has the modifications to bring it up to 1,650lbs
ascertain
whether or not the Rebel being built by Peter was meant to be 1,650lbs
or
1,450lbs

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