FIREWALL PICTURES/FLAP MOD
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:27 pm
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Your following message has been delivered to the 134 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 16:45:41 on 1 Dec 1999.
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Allister (and all), I've never had a problem slowing down into the flap
speed range, as with a 100HP O-235 I was usually in it already!!!!! Now that
I have the 150 on the nose I will have to be a little more careful. The last
couple weeks I have been flying both 150 hp Rebels, one for an hour and then
the next, flying off a voluntary 25 hours passenger free, on both aircraft
with their new engines. (wife can replace me, but not our children!) I find
the one with the teleflex cable can be flown around the circuit quite easily
with full flaps down and no real need for the rudder pedals. This is largely
because the 23degree ground setting looks like about 10(or less) when in the
air (even as I cross the fence at 45MPH). Mine with the mechanical hook up,
on the other hand has never flown a circuit without use of the rudder pedals
to get you around the corners. I only select full flap, when lined up for
short final(and not on gusty days) because the only way it will turn with
full flaps selected is to kick it in the direction you want to go with the
rudder! Again mine are set 23 degrees max. down static and probably flex up
to about 18 degrees at 60MPH. Note that the torque tube horns flex also, not
just the cable! And remember, any flaperoned aircraft is usually led with
rudder and then flaperon in the turns! If you don't you will find you are
turning left and then need right stick to maintain the left turn! This is
especially true in a Kitfox or CH701! This is why alot of people split the
flaps, because they want it to fly like a Cessna, but in return they lose
most of the roll rate and half their flaps(because you can't put them down
any farther with out some extra hinges or reinforcement!) which increases
their obstacle clearance considerably! There is nothing more impressive to
observers than watching a Rebel fly over and then down the side of a tree,
landing pretty much at it's base! It's a pretty neat ride from the cockpit
also! (isn't it Bob and others that have learned how to make this great
plane do what it was designed to do!(and then some))
Murphy's answer to any mod is don't do it! This is strictly a liability
issue on Darryl's part and you can't blame him at all for that!!!!!!(he has
busted his ass for 14+ years, to get Murphy where it is and it's not worth
losing everything over someone's botched modification!) The two hinges are
more than enough to take the load at 23 degrees within the flap speed range.
(they don't blow off at 130 either and don't ask how I know!) Most
non-structural and cosmetic mods are pretty safe for anyone to do.
Structural items on the other hand, like wing extensions etc., you had
better know what you are doing and how to do the load calculations. I looked
at adding 3 feet to each wing, similar to the 18" art wing extensions for a
Cessna 185, but when I did the math, I didn't like the numbers and scraped
the idea.(besides, the extra 50HP has since fixed the climb rate anyway!)
Wing tips also seem to be getting longer and longer, and sooner or later (if
they get any longer) someone is going to buckle up a wing. (this happened
with some Cessna's using the ART wing extension, and in hindsight they found
not all wings had a required stiffener in them.) So everyone, please make
sure you know what you are doing, before you do it outside the scope of the
manual!
Enough rambling from me, (Allister)I've got to get down and over to your
great country one day! Looked at flying the outback tour once, but couldn't
find the time!(would have to be a month minimum to make it worth while I
think!)
Blue Skies and Tailwinds, Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: FIREWALL PICTURES/FLAP MOD
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Your following message has been delivered to the 134 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 16:45:41 on 1 Dec 1999.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allister (and all), I've never had a problem slowing down into the flap
speed range, as with a 100HP O-235 I was usually in it already!!!!! Now that
I have the 150 on the nose I will have to be a little more careful. The last
couple weeks I have been flying both 150 hp Rebels, one for an hour and then
the next, flying off a voluntary 25 hours passenger free, on both aircraft
with their new engines. (wife can replace me, but not our children!) I find
the one with the teleflex cable can be flown around the circuit quite easily
with full flaps down and no real need for the rudder pedals. This is largely
because the 23degree ground setting looks like about 10(or less) when in the
air (even as I cross the fence at 45MPH). Mine with the mechanical hook up,
on the other hand has never flown a circuit without use of the rudder pedals
to get you around the corners. I only select full flap, when lined up for
short final(and not on gusty days) because the only way it will turn with
full flaps selected is to kick it in the direction you want to go with the
rudder! Again mine are set 23 degrees max. down static and probably flex up
to about 18 degrees at 60MPH. Note that the torque tube horns flex also, not
just the cable! And remember, any flaperoned aircraft is usually led with
rudder and then flaperon in the turns! If you don't you will find you are
turning left and then need right stick to maintain the left turn! This is
especially true in a Kitfox or CH701! This is why alot of people split the
flaps, because they want it to fly like a Cessna, but in return they lose
most of the roll rate and half their flaps(because you can't put them down
any farther with out some extra hinges or reinforcement!) which increases
their obstacle clearance considerably! There is nothing more impressive to
observers than watching a Rebel fly over and then down the side of a tree,
landing pretty much at it's base! It's a pretty neat ride from the cockpit
also! (isn't it Bob and others that have learned how to make this great
plane do what it was designed to do!(and then some))
Murphy's answer to any mod is don't do it! This is strictly a liability
issue on Darryl's part and you can't blame him at all for that!!!!!!(he has
busted his ass for 14+ years, to get Murphy where it is and it's not worth
losing everything over someone's botched modification!) The two hinges are
more than enough to take the load at 23 degrees within the flap speed range.
(they don't blow off at 130 either and don't ask how I know!) Most
non-structural and cosmetic mods are pretty safe for anyone to do.
Structural items on the other hand, like wing extensions etc., you had
better know what you are doing and how to do the load calculations. I looked
at adding 3 feet to each wing, similar to the 18" art wing extensions for a
Cessna 185, but when I did the math, I didn't like the numbers and scraped
the idea.(besides, the extra 50HP has since fixed the climb rate anyway!)
Wing tips also seem to be getting longer and longer, and sooner or later (if
they get any longer) someone is going to buckle up a wing. (this happened
with some Cessna's using the ART wing extension, and in hindsight they found
not all wings had a required stiffener in them.) So everyone, please make
sure you know what you are doing, before you do it outside the scope of the
manual!
Enough rambling from me, (Allister)I've got to get down and over to your
great country one day! Looked at flying the outback tour once, but couldn't
find the time!(would have to be a month minimum to make it worth while I
think!)
Blue Skies and Tailwinds, Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: FIREWALL PICTURES/FLAP MOD
theWayne hi,
Thanks for the reply, the 63 thou plates should be heavy enough! I have
incorporated 32 thou plates and the Murphy mod, also done something similar
to you and placed a channel under the 'bathtub' top engine mount back to
forgetwitches hat on the sidewall and enlarged the doubler and placed on the
outside.
I was interested in your mod in placing a mechanical linkage onto the
flaperon. It seems at first glance to be a good idea when you look at the
amount of flex in the cable supplied. ( you're not talking just a few
degrees here, you seem to lose at least half your flaperon deflection as
soon as you rotate.)
I would be interested in your feedback on a couple of points.
Firstly, even with the reduced deflection because of the cable flexing the
aircraft takes on a completely different set of characteristics in relation
to adverse yaw, with a mechanical linkage presumably using the full 18
degrees how do you find the handling of the aircraft in this area.
Secondly, I contacted Murphy in regard to possibly doing a mod along these
lines, their comments suggested that flex in the cable is a great safety
device, it is almost impossible to stress this area because the higher the
loading the more the cable flexes, even if you exceed the flap speed it is
not such a big drama.
Any comments?
Did you add more flaperon hinge points when you did you mod?
Cheers
Alister
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Thursday, December 02, 1999 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: FIREWALL PICTURES
Ken, not sure what double row of rivets you are talking about! I did
haveperimeterin my e-mail to Allister yesterday, that I build every aircraft, no matter
what engine goes on, with a double "stagered" row of rivets up the door
post. If you are talking about the line of rivets going around theof the firewall, this firewall was done by the previous owner with a sheet
of stainless riveted over top of the original aluminum. And YES you are
right this aircraft and its Mods are like Lays Potato Chips!(you can't
Rebels!just one) In my case thats true for both the Mods and the number of
theMy #1 personal Rebel has aluminum flaperons(counter balanced), flaps on
though,floor(totally mechanically linked to get rid of the play and flex of
teleflex cable), 4 fully adjustable seats, etc. etc. etc. Over time
itmost of these novelties wear off and you will wish you had of just built
thatby the book and been enjoying the flight characteristics of the craft,
Flaps!much sooner. If I may be Bold, one mod I absolutely hate is Electric
Cessna'sNoCouldn't stand them in a newer model Cessna, can't stand them in a Rebel.thetwo landings are ever the same with electric flaps because you can't getsame position at the swing of a lever! This is the main reason 185
flyingIare the prefered Cessna on floats, because of their manual flaps! Sorry ifoffended anyone with this mod already completed, but I watch a gentleman
with this Mod in his Rebel, spend most of his flight time playing with his
Electric flap switch, trying to get them in the right place!(and not
*----------------------------------------------------*?the aircraft!)
Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: klehman@albedo.net <klehman@albedo.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: FIREWALL PICTURES
would beWayne
Uuuh just to prove someone is paying attention - that double rivet rowanother mod I presume. Two rows of rivets along the bottom of the doublerfunIt's a pandora's box. Bet you can't just make ONE mod. Now we're having*----------------------------------------------------*eh!fromKen
Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:*----------------------------------------------------**----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
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