The Murphy Builders Site

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Terry Dazey
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 9:52 AM
To: Murphy Group
Subject: Rebel Fuel Line Install


Hello Rebel Builders/Flyers:

I am in the process of installing an "under-floor"
fuel system and
selector valve on Rebel 662. I took the Cessna
approach with the layout,
and have been working on this for some time now.

The left and right lines will exit each tank going aft
through (or
around?) the aft wing attach double bulkheads, then a
90 degree down
just aft of the door opening (bulkhead "F") through
the angled ledge
channel, with a 90 degree forward through the door
vertical bulkhead
then down through a "racetrack" slot in the sill
(located just below the
door angled sill) forward through the double bulkhead
to a 90 degree
inboard to the selector valve. Both left and right
fuel lines will meet
here. A single line from the selector will go forward
through both
square carrythroughs. The line will then run on the
left side of the 5/8
square stiffener tube toward the firewall then to the
gascolator which
will be mounted somewhere left of the aircraft centerline.

To date, the selector valve is mounted in the floor,
between the seats ,
just right of centerline. Some of the lines on the
right lower side have
been run. (See photos).

Last evening I took another long look at the
installation and had some
questions in my pointed little head concerning my line
routing. I have
never done this type of installation before so I am
being cautious
(maybe too cautious). Unsure whether I am going at it
in a sound and
correct manner, I thought it would be great to get
some further opinions
and/or suggestions from others. To give you an idea of
where I am at, I
have uploaded some installation photos to the archives
for review.

Initially, I purchased some 3/8 tubing from my local
hardware store for
mockup. This soft tubing seemed to make bending in
place relatively
easy. Not realizing that the 3/8 fuel tubing received
in my kit from MAM
was a LOT more rigid and made for some tough bending
in place. I have
heard that some builders make runs all the way from
the tanks to the
firewall with very few fittings! How the heck is that
accomplished? Am I
doing something wrong here?

Note 1: As you can see from the photos, there is an
access cover on the
outside of the bottom floor for selector
access/maintenance (an access
cover on the inside was not an option as there is a
lot going on the
inside in that area with float pump stuff, fuel valve
mount, water
rudder mechanism, elevator cable pulleys, etc.). A
hole will be drilled
in this access cover so the single, low point Saf-Air
valve will
protrude making it accessible for pre flight. The
cover plate will have
a watertight seal and there may be a streamlined
"half" faring over the
drain valve for protection and make it water resistant
from float spray.

Note 2: Wherever there is an "AN" fitting, there will
be an access cover
for maintenance. (i.e. corner wraps).

Note 3: The selector valve handle will have a
fiberglass safety cover
around it to prevent the possibility of accidentally
moving it from its
intended position in flight.

A. Has anyone taken this approach to a fuel line installation?
B. Am I headed in the right direction with this installation?
C. If so, is it possible to accomplish this
installation with less AN
fittings (longer tube runs)? How?
D. Is it acceptable to run the aluminum fuel lines
through the "F"
double bulkheads, just below the wing fittings with
grommets or should
the lines be routed around the wing fitting double bulkheads?

Suggestions, comments or criticism would be highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662





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From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:05:56 -0800
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Rebel Fuel Line Install

Terry, can't see exactly from the photos, but would be concerned
about the grommets if they are the same ones that I got from MAM.
I would prefer something more heavy duty that can't rub through
with vibration, and maybe even bulkhead AN connectors.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Terry Dazey
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 9:52 AM
To: Murphy Group
Subject: Rebel Fuel Line Install


Hello Rebel Builders/Flyers:

I am in the process of installing an "under-floor"
fuel system and
selector valve on Rebel 662. I took the Cessna
approach with the layout,
and have been working on this for some time now.

The left and right lines will exit each tank going aft
through (or
around?) the aft wing attach double bulkheads, then a
90 degree down
just aft of the door opening (bulkhead "F") through
the angled ledge
channel, with a 90 degree forward through the door
vertical bulkhead
then down through a "racetrack" slot in the sill
(located just below the
door angled sill) forward through the double bulkhead
to a 90 degree
inboard to the selector valve. Both left and right
fuel lines will meet
here. A single line from the selector will go forward
through both
square carrythroughs. The line will then run on the
left side of the 5/8
square stiffener tube toward the firewall then to the
gascolator which
will be mounted somewhere left of the aircraft centerline.

To date, the selector valve is mounted in the floor,
between the seats ,
just right of centerline. Some of the lines on the
right lower side have
been run. (See photos).

Last evening I took another long look at the
installation and had some
questions in my pointed little head concerning my line
routing. I have
never done this type of installation before so I am
being cautious
(maybe too cautious). Unsure whether I am going at it
in a sound and
correct manner, I thought it would be great to get
some further opinions
and/or suggestions from others. To give you an idea of
where I am at, I
have uploaded some installation photos to the archives
for review.

Initially, I purchased some 3/8 tubing from my local
hardware store for
mockup. This soft tubing seemed to make bending in
place relatively
easy. Not realizing that the 3/8 fuel tubing received
in my kit from MAM
was a LOT more rigid and made for some tough bending
in place. I have
heard that some builders make runs all the way from
the tanks to the
firewall with very few fittings! How the heck is that
accomplished? Am I
doing something wrong here?

Note 1: As you can see from the photos, there is an
access cover on the
outside of the bottom floor for selector
access/maintenance (an access
cover on the inside was not an option as there is a
lot going on the
inside in that area with float pump stuff, fuel valve
mount, water
rudder mechanism, elevator cable pulleys, etc.). A
hole will be drilled
in this access cover so the single, low point Saf-Air
valve will
protrude making it accessible for pre flight. The
cover plate will have
a watertight seal and there may be a streamlined
"half" faring over the
drain valve for protection and make it water resistant
from float spray.

Note 2: Wherever there is an "AN" fitting, there will
be an access cover
for maintenance. (i.e. corner wraps).

Note 3: The selector valve handle will have a
fiberglass safety cover
around it to prevent the possibility of accidentally
moving it from its
intended position in flight.

A. Has anyone taken this approach to a fuel line installation?
B. Am I headed in the right direction with this installation?
C. If so, is it possible to accomplish this
installation with less AN
fittings (longer tube runs)? How?
D. Is it acceptable to run the aluminum fuel lines
through the "F"
double bulkheads, just below the wing fittings with
grommets or should
the lines be routed around the wing fitting double bulkheads?

Suggestions, comments or criticism would be highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662





-------------------------------------------------------
----------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-------------------------------------------------------
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Terry Dazey
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 9:16 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rebel Fuel Line Install


Hello Walter:

Those grommets are not MAM supplied. They are
approximately 7/8 inch Outside
diameter and fit in a 5/8 inch hole (inside diameter
is 3/8 inch for the
tube).

There isn't room for bulkhead AN's at either end, so I
elected to use the
90* at those locations. (If I put a bulkhead fitting
at the double bulkhead,
there wouldn't be room to make the nut connection. a
bulkhead connector at
the door vertical channel would put the tube that
would run up the aft side
of the door would be too close and would not be able
to make a perpendicular
shot through the diagonal channel. Is that what you
were talking about?
Clear as mud?

I will go out this weekend and take another look at
bulkhead fittings and
see if I was missing something there. Sometimes I get
focused on a project
and "can't see the forest through the trees".

Thanks for the advice!

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662
Bonney Lake, Washington USA

From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:05:56 -0800
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Rebel Fuel Line Install

Terry, can't see exactly from the photos, but would

be concerned

about the grommets if they are the same ones that I

got from MAM.

I would prefer something more heavy duty that can't

rub through

with vibration, and maybe even bulkhead AN connectors.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Terry Dazey
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 9:52 AM
To: Murphy Group
Subject: Rebel Fuel Line Install


Hello Rebel Builders/Flyers:

I am in the process of installing an "under-floor"
fuel system and
selector valve on Rebel 662. I took the Cessna
approach with the layout,
and have been working on this for some time now.

The left and right lines will exit each tank going aft
through (or
around?) the aft wing attach double bulkheads, then a
90 degree down
just aft of the door opening (bulkhead "F") through
the angled ledge
channel, with a 90 degree forward through the door
vertical bulkhead
then down through a "racetrack" slot in the sill
(located just below the
door angled sill) forward through the double bulkhead
to a 90 degree
inboard to the selector valve. Both left and right
fuel lines will meet
here. A single line from the selector will go forward
through both
square carrythroughs. The line will then run on the
left side of the 5/8
square stiffener tube toward the firewall then to the
gascolator which
will be mounted somewhere left of the aircraft centerline.

To date, the selector valve is mounted in the floor,
between the seats ,
just right of centerline. Some of the lines on the
right lower side have
been run. (See photos).

Last evening I took another long look at the
installation and had some
questions in my pointed little head concerning my line
routing. I have
never done this type of installation before so I am
being cautious
(maybe too cautious). Unsure whether I am going at it
in a sound and
correct manner, I thought it would be great to get
some further opinions
and/or suggestions from others. To give you an idea of
where I am at, I
have uploaded some installation photos to the archives
for review.

Initially, I purchased some 3/8 tubing from my local
hardware store for
mockup. This soft tubing seemed to make bending in
place relatively
easy. Not realizing that the 3/8 fuel tubing received
in my kit from MAM
was a LOT more rigid and made for some tough bending
in place. I have
heard that some builders make runs all the way from
the tanks to the
firewall with very few fittings! How the heck is that
accomplished? Am I
doing something wrong here?

Note 1: As you can see from the photos, there is an
access cover on the
outside of the bottom floor for selector
access/maintenance (an access
cover on the inside was not an option as there is a
lot going on the
inside in that area with float pump stuff, fuel valve
mount, water
rudder mechanism, elevator cable pulleys, etc.). A
hole will be drilled
in this access cover so the single, low point Saf-Air
valve will
protrude making it accessible for pre flight. The
cover plate will have
a watertight seal and there may be a streamlined
"half" faring over the
drain valve for protection and make it water resistant
from float spray.

Note 2: Wherever there is an "AN" fitting, there will
be an access cover
for maintenance. (i.e. corner wraps).

Note 3: The selector valve handle will have a
fiberglass safety cover
around it to prevent the possibility of accidentally
moving it from its
intended position in flight.

A. Has anyone taken this approach to a fuel line

installation?

B. Am I headed in the right direction with this

installation?

C. If so, is it possible to accomplish this
installation with less AN
fittings (longer tube runs)? How?
D. Is it acceptable to run the aluminum fuel lines
through the "F"
double bulkheads, just below the wing fittings with
grommets or should
the lines be routed around the wing fitting double

bulkheads?

Suggestions, comments or criticism would be highly

appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662





-------------------------------------------------------
----------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-------------------------------------------------------
----------

-------------------------------------------------------
----------

List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com

-------------------------------------------------------
----------




-------------------------------------------------------
----------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-------------------------------------------------------
----------

Not saying you have to have bulkhead fittings, as long as you
have good grommets and support for those lines so they can't flex
or vibrate. But I have seen where the cheap ones are easily cut
by the sharp aluminum. I have also seen where short pieces of
hydraulic hose with the metal fuel line inside were used instead.
Not sure if this is best practise, but it seemed pretty strong.

Walter