Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?

[N.Smith]

Hi All

Any one got any idea the max pressure likely to be encountered in the brake
system of the Rebel or Elite ?

Just looking at alternative brake lines and wondered if 1000 PSI would in
fact be OK ?

Thanks

Nigel
745E





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[Ken]

Hi Nigel
When I did my brakes I concluded that the normal max operating pressure
was probably not more than about 300 psi. I think that was about the max
I saw on the Matco brake simulator once as well but don't trust my
memory too far...
If I thought it would ever reach 1000 I would have thrown the 1/4"
plastic lines away.
Ken

Smith wrote:

Hi All

Any one got any idea the max pressure likely to be encountered in the brake
system of the Rebel or Elite ?

Just looking at alternative brake lines and wondered if 1000 PSI would in
fact be OK ?

Thanks

Nigel
745E

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[Alan Hepburn]

I didn't even consider using the plastic lines supplied - except for the
supply lines from the reservoir to the master cylinders. I used stainless
braided lines for the high pressure section. I have Cleveland brakes on
Montana 2200 amphibs.

Al





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[Drew Dalgleish]

At 04:15 PM 11/13/2005 -0000, you wrote:

Hi All

Any one got any idea the max pressure likely to be encountered in the brake
system of the Rebel or Elite ?

Just looking at alternative brake lines and wondered if 1000 PSI would in
fact be OK ?

Thanks

Nigel
745E

Uh Why? The plastic lines are light cheap and effective. Lots of them in
service without any problems. I assume you already have the parts. Any
alternative material will undoubtedly weigh more and slow down your build
time as you source all the parts.
Drew





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[Ken]

Hi Drew
I think Angus has blown both brake lines and float hydraulic lines.
Ken

Drew Dalgleish wrote:

At 04:15 PM 11/13/2005 -0000, you wrote:

Hi All

Any one got any idea the max pressure likely to be encountered in the brake
system of the Rebel or Elite ?

Just looking at alternative brake lines and wondered if 1000 PSI would in
fact be OK ?

Thanks

Nigel
745E

Uh Why? The plastic lines are light cheap and effective. Lots of them in
service without any problems. I assume you already have the parts. Any
alternative material will undoubtedly weigh more and slow down your build
time as you source all the parts.
Drew

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

If you overheat a brake disc/caliper it can soften the nylon and allow it to
pop out of the fitting. Usually only an issue with HP aircraft but very
possible with an amphib if you are having trouble steering and constantly
dragging one brake. Howard's went 7+ summers with no line problems
though..brakes or gear hydraulics. I have had no problems over 10+ years
with mine of wheels using the 1/4" Parker parflex and no problems this
summer with my brakes or hydraulics on the amphibs.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?

Hi Drew
I think Angus has blown both brake lines and float hydraulic lines.
Ken

Drew Dalgleish wrote:

At 04:15 PM 11/13/2005 -0000, you wrote:

Hi All

Any one got any idea the max pressure likely to be encountered in the

brake

system of the Rebel or Elite ?

Just looking at alternative brake lines and wondered if 1000 PSI would

in

fact be OK ?

Thanks

Nigel
745E

Uh Why? The plastic lines are light cheap and effective. Lots of them in
service without any problems. I assume you already have the parts. Any
alternative material will undoubtedly weigh more and slow down your build
time as you source all the parts.
Drew

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[Drew Dalgleish]

At 11:02 PM 11/13/2005 -0500, you wrote:

Hi Drew
I think Angus has blown both brake lines and float hydraulic lines.
Ken

I ended up replacing all my float hydraulic lines because of leaks. They
were not as high quality lines or fittings as the brake lines though. I
thoughr Angus went with all aluminum lines on his origional instalation.
Drew





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[Angus McKenzie]

Hi Ken and Drew
The hydraulic lines in the cockpit blew in several spots and the brake lines
have blown about 3 times once on wheel gear and twice on floats. So, now we
have braided stainless and solid aluminum from your feet to the calipers for
the brakes, this made a significant improvement increasing brake efficiency.
The plastic lines on the hydraulic float pump have blown on the pressure
side in three spots, (our Rebel will leak oil out of the fuselage on hot
days for the rest of its life, I should probably reweigh it and do a W&B
amendment for the spilled oil onboard) anyway, I now have solid aluminum
from the pump to the floats but still have plastic lines in the floats,
though I expect to replace that plastic line as well.
My most recent structural "need" is doublers at the front of the rear corner
wraps under the door sill.
Sorry to have missed the get-together in Brampton on Sunday-family issues.
Angus..............049R


----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?

At 11:02 PM 11/13/2005 -0500, you wrote:

Hi Drew
I think Angus has blown both brake lines and float hydraulic lines.
Ken

I ended up replacing all my float hydraulic lines because of leaks. They
were not as high quality lines or fittings as the brake lines though. I
thoughr Angus went with all aluminum lines on his origional instalation.
Drew





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[N.Smith]

Thanks Angus

Can you remember the spec no for the braided stainless flexible or it's max
pressure rating ?

Thanks

Nigel
745E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Angus McKenzie
Sent: 14 November 2005 19:02
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?


Hi Ken and Drew
The hydraulic lines in the cockpit blew in several spots and the brake lines
have blown about 3 times once on wheel gear and twice on floats. So, now we
have braided stainless and solid aluminum from your feet to the calipers for
the brakes, this made a significant improvement increasing brake efficiency.
The plastic lines on the hydraulic float pump have blown on the pressure
side in three spots, (our Rebel will leak oil out of the fuselage on hot
days for the rest of its life, I should probably reweigh it and do a W&B
amendment for the spilled oil onboard) anyway, I now have solid aluminum
from the pump to the floats but still have plastic lines in the floats,
though I expect to replace that plastic line as well.
My most recent structural "need" is doublers at the front of the rear corner
wraps under the door sill.
Sorry to have missed the get-together in Brampton on Sunday-family issues.
Angus..............049R


----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?

At 11:02 PM 11/13/2005 -0500, you wrote:

Hi Drew
I think Angus has blown both brake lines and float hydraulic lines.
Ken

I ended up replacing all my float hydraulic lines because of leaks. They
were not as high quality lines or fittings as the brake lines though. I
thoughr Angus went with all aluminum lines on his origional instalation.
Drew





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[Angus McKenzie]

Hi Nigel
Just called the supplier, a commercial hose and fitting distributor, Hose
Headquarters,London, ON. with your query........919 series hose, 1/4"ID
teflon tube-braided stainless jacket.
Spec.no. 100R14A
3000psi working pressure
x4 for burst pressure
working temps -100F or -73C.
+450F.or +232C.
This is ........NOT.......... AN-hardware. Just industrial material.
Regards, Angus



----- Original Message -----
From: "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 2:40 PM
Subject: RE: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?

Thanks Angus

Can you remember the spec no for the braided stainless flexible or it's
max
pressure rating ?

Thanks

Nigel
745E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Angus McKenzie
Sent: 14 November 2005 19:02
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?


Hi Ken and Drew
The hydraulic lines in the cockpit blew in several spots and the brake
lines
have blown about 3 times once on wheel gear and twice on floats. So, now
we
have braided stainless and solid aluminum from your feet to the calipers
for
the brakes, this made a significant improvement increasing brake
efficiency.
The plastic lines on the hydraulic float pump have blown on the pressure
side in three spots, (our Rebel will leak oil out of the fuselage on hot
days for the rest of its life, I should probably reweigh it and do a W&B
amendment for the spilled oil onboard) anyway, I now have solid aluminum
from the pump to the floats but still have plastic lines in the floats,
though I expect to replace that plastic line as well.
My most recent structural "need" is doublers at the front of the rear
corner
wraps under the door sill.
Sorry to have missed the get-together in Brampton on Sunday-family issues.
Angus..............049R


----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?

At 11:02 PM 11/13/2005 -0500, you wrote:

Hi Drew
I think Angus has blown both brake lines and float hydraulic lines.
Ken

I ended up replacing all my float hydraulic lines because of leaks. They
were not as high quality lines or fittings as the brake lines though. I
thoughr Angus went with all aluminum lines on his origional instalation.
Drew





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[N.Smith]

Thanks Angus

Nigel

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Angus McKenzie
Sent: 14 November 2005 20:01
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?


Hi Nigel
Just called the supplier, a commercial hose and fitting distributor, Hose
Headquarters,London, ON. with your query........919 series hose, 1/4"ID
teflon tube-braided stainless jacket.
Spec.no. 100R14A
3000psi working pressure
x4 for burst pressure
working temps -100F or -73C.
+450F.or +232C.
This is ........NOT.......... AN-hardware. Just industrial material.
Regards, Angus



----- Original Message -----
From: "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 2:40 PM
Subject: RE: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?

Thanks Angus

Can you remember the spec no for the braided stainless flexible or it's
max
pressure rating ?

Thanks

Nigel
745E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Angus McKenzie
Sent: 14 November 2005 19:02
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?


Hi Ken and Drew
The hydraulic lines in the cockpit blew in several spots and the brake
lines
have blown about 3 times once on wheel gear and twice on floats. So, now
we
have braided stainless and solid aluminum from your feet to the calipers
for
the brakes, this made a significant improvement increasing brake
efficiency.
The plastic lines on the hydraulic float pump have blown on the pressure
side in three spots, (our Rebel will leak oil out of the fuselage on hot
days for the rest of its life, I should probably reweigh it and do a W&B
amendment for the spilled oil onboard) anyway, I now have solid aluminum
from the pump to the floats but still have plastic lines in the floats,
though I expect to replace that plastic line as well.
My most recent structural "need" is doublers at the front of the rear
corner
wraps under the door sill.
Sorry to have missed the get-together in Brampton on Sunday-family issues.
Angus..............049R


----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?

At 11:02 PM 11/13/2005 -0500, you wrote:

Hi Drew
I think Angus has blown both brake lines and float hydraulic lines.
Ken

I ended up replacing all my float hydraulic lines because of leaks. They
were not as high quality lines or fittings as the brake lines though. I
thoughr Angus went with all aluminum lines on his origional instalation.
Drew





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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

...unfortunately MAM is throwing Beige Semi-rigid nylon tube in the amphib
kits now (well at least the one I got last Thur) instead of the ship list
Parker Parflex...me not amused with being expected to try something
different (and I won't be)! I know what you're saying about bubble chasing,
Walter, with the semi-clear parker parflex. Very easy to coax it up the
struts. Once you get it up towards the cabin you can cycle back and forth
partially to get it into the reservoir without pushing the air back down to
the floats.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 11:39 PM
Subject: RE: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?

I still have the original MAM plastic brake and hydraulic lines
in mine, and no problems since I solved the original fitting
leaks when first installed. One thing I do with mine that might
help, is I leave the valve lever in the middle/lock position,
which may relieve pressure on my lines.

Another advantage of the plastic lines is that you can see air
bubbles which were easy to get rid of then after installation
without having to bleed any lines. I retracted the front wheels
and then tilted the plane up or down to slowly move the air
bubbles where I wanted them to go.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Angus McKenzie
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 11:03 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?


Hi Ken and Drew
The hydraulic lines in the cockpit blew in several
spots and the brake lines
have blown about 3 times once on wheel gear and twice
on floats. So, now we
have braided stainless and solid aluminum from your
feet to the calipers for
the brakes, this made a significant improvement
increasing brake efficiency.
The plastic lines on the hydraulic float pump have
blown on the pressure
side in three spots, (our Rebel will leak oil out of
the fuselage on hot
days for the rest of its life, I should probably
reweigh it and do a W&B
amendment for the spilled oil onboard) anyway, I now
have solid aluminum
from the pump to the floats but still have plastic
lines in the floats,
though I expect to replace that plastic line as well.
My most recent structural "need" is doublers at the
front of the rear corner
wraps under the door sill.
Sorry to have missed the get-together in Brampton on
Sunday-family issues.
Angus..............049R


----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?

At 11:02 PM 11/13/2005 -0500, you wrote:

hydraulic lines.

I ended up replacing all my float hydraulic lines

because of leaks. They

were not as high quality lines or fittings as the

brake lines though. I

thoughr Angus went with all aluminum lines on his

origional instalation.

Drew

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[Drew Dalgleish]

Whats wrong with a little air in the lines? I figure the air bubbles
compress and will help hold the pressure as they expand if you've got a
slow leak.
Drew

At 11:43 PM 11/21/2005 -0500, you wrote:

...unfortunately MAM is throwing Beige Semi-rigid nylon tube in the amphib
kits now (well at least the one I got last Thur) instead of the ship list
Parker Parflex...me not amused with being expected to try something
different (and I won't be)! I know what you're saying about bubble chasing,
Walter, with the semi-clear parker parflex. Very easy to coax it up the
struts. Once you get it up towards the cabin you can cycle back and forth
partially to get it into the reservoir without pushing the air back down to
the floats.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 11:39 PM
Subject: RE: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?

I still have the original MAM plastic brake and hydraulic lines
in mine, and no problems since I solved the original fitting
leaks when first installed. One thing I do with mine that might
help, is I leave the valve lever in the middle/lock position,
which may relieve pressure on my lines.

Another advantage of the plastic lines is that you can see air
bubbles which were easy to get rid of then after installation
without having to bleed any lines. I retracted the front wheels
and then tilted the plane up or down to slowly move the air
bubbles where I wanted them to go.

Walter

Drew





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[Bruce Georgen]

After blowing my float line in BC last summer, after setting in the hot sun for several hours while fishing with Walter, I leave my selector in the up position. When in the neutral position I still get pressure build up.

Bruce



--Original Message-----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Sent: Nov 21, 2005 11:43 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?

...unfortunately MAM is throwing Beige Semi-rigid nylon tube in the amphib
kits now (well at least the one I got last Thur) instead of the ship list
Parker Parflex...me not amused with being expected to try something
different (and I won't be)! I know what you're saying about bubble chasing,
Walter, with the semi-clear parker parflex. Very easy to coax it up the
struts. Once you get it up towards the cabin you can cycle back and forth
partially to get it into the reservoir without pushing the air back down to
the floats.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 11:39 PM
Subject: RE: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?

I still have the original MAM plastic brake and hydraulic lines
in mine, and no problems since I solved the original fitting
leaks when first installed. One thing I do with mine that might
help, is I leave the valve lever in the middle/lock position,
which may relieve pressure on my lines.

Another advantage of the plastic lines is that you can see air
bubbles which were easy to get rid of then after installation
without having to bleed any lines. I retracted the front wheels
and then tilted the plane up or down to slowly move the air
bubbles where I wanted them to go.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Angus McKenzie
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 11:03 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?


Hi Ken and Drew
The hydraulic lines in the cockpit blew in several
spots and the brake lines
have blown about 3 times once on wheel gear and twice
on floats. So, now we
have braided stainless and solid aluminum from your
feet to the calipers for
the brakes, this made a significant improvement
increasing brake efficiency.
The plastic lines on the hydraulic float pump have
blown on the pressure
side in three spots, (our Rebel will leak oil out of
the fuselage on hot
days for the rest of its life, I should probably
reweigh it and do a W&B
amendment for the spilled oil onboard) anyway, I now
have solid aluminum
from the pump to the floats but still have plastic
lines in the floats,
though I expect to replace that plastic line as well.
My most recent structural "need" is doublers at the
front of the rear corner
wraps under the door sill.
Sorry to have missed the get-together in Brampton on
Sunday-family issues.
Angus..............049R


----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?

At 11:02 PM 11/13/2005 -0500, you wrote:

hydraulic lines.

I ended up replacing all my float hydraulic lines

because of leaks. They

were not as high quality lines or fittings as the

brake lines though. I

thoughr Angus went with all aluminum lines on his

origional instalation.

Drew

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[Walter Klatt]

I still have the original MAM plastic brake and hydraulic lines
in mine, and no problems since I solved the original fitting
leaks when first installed. One thing I do with mine that might
help, is I leave the valve lever in the middle/lock position,
which may relieve pressure on my lines.

Another advantage of the plastic lines is that you can see air
bubbles which were easy to get rid of then after installation
without having to bleed any lines. I retracted the front wheels
and then tilted the plane up or down to slowly move the air
bubbles where I wanted them to go.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Angus McKenzie
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 11:03 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?


Hi Ken and Drew
The hydraulic lines in the cockpit blew in several
spots and the brake lines
have blown about 3 times once on wheel gear and twice
on floats. So, now we
have braided stainless and solid aluminum from your
feet to the calipers for
the brakes, this made a significant improvement
increasing brake efficiency.
The plastic lines on the hydraulic float pump have
blown on the pressure
side in three spots, (our Rebel will leak oil out of
the fuselage on hot
days for the rest of its life, I should probably
reweigh it and do a W&B
amendment for the spilled oil onboard) anyway, I now
have solid aluminum
from the pump to the floats but still have plastic
lines in the floats,
though I expect to replace that plastic line as well.
My most recent structural "need" is doublers at the
front of the rear corner
wraps under the door sill.
Sorry to have missed the get-together in Brampton on
Sunday-family issues.
Angus..............049R


----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Brake pressure in Rebel/Elite ?

At 11:02 PM 11/13/2005 -0500, you wrote:

Hi Drew
I think Angus has blown both brake lines and float

hydraulic lines.

Ken

I ended up replacing all my float hydraulic lines

because of leaks. They

were not as high quality lines or fittings as the

brake lines though. I

thoughr Angus went with all aluminum lines on his

origional instalation.

Drew

-------------------------------------------------------
----------

List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
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Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.0.0 - Release

Date: 11/8/2004



--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.0.0 - Release
Date: 11/8/2004




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