The Murphy Builders Site

I just recieved 2 replacement wing struts from MAM after being deliverd only
one with my kit. The original kit came with a 1.5" square 6061 aluminum tube
to build the strut. The replacement strut material i recievd from MAM
apprears to be 6063 aluminum material that has been anodized. No
manufacturing stamp on the tube to confirm the exact material! Robin has not
yet followed up with the documentation confirming the material and specs.
I've found what i believe is MAM replacement material from Spruce, which,
after further investigation appears to be ornamental aluminum used in the
manufacutring of residential windows.

Question: Should a Moose builder consider using an uknown material to build
such a critical a/c part? Does anyone have any knowledge or a similiar
situation?

Just when i thought i was done with my wing building experience, ( note- i
rejected 3 sets of Murphy Quickbuild wings that I originally ordered due to
what appeared to be quality issues now confirmed by most other QB wings as
profusive leaking), i now need to chase materials and/or material
specifications and calculations from MAM. Just a bit frustrating.

Regards,
Builder #227



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Hi Aaron,
I don't know if the 6061-T6 is way over kill or not, but the 6063-T6 has
typical yield strength of 22,000 psi - about half what 6061-T6 is.

I wouldn't want the 6063 in there if that is what it is.

FWIW
Scott
Moose 174



-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
sr227@dcsol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 9:49 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Wing Strut Material

I just recieved 2 replacement wing struts from MAM after being deliverd only

one with my kit. The original kit came with a 1.5" square 6061 aluminum
tube
to build the strut. The replacement strut material i recievd from MAM
apprears to be 6063 aluminum material that has been anodized. No
manufacturing stamp on the tube to confirm the exact material! Robin has not

yet followed up with the documentation confirming the material and specs.
I've found what i believe is MAM replacement material from Spruce, which,
after further investigation appears to be ornamental aluminum used in the
manufacutring of residential windows.

Question: Should a Moose builder consider using an uknown material to build

such a critical a/c part? Does anyone have any knowledge or a similiar
situation?

Just when i thought i was done with my wing building experience, ( note- i
rejected 3 sets of Murphy Quickbuild wings that I originally ordered due to
what appeared to be quality issues now confirmed by most other QB wings as
profusive leaking), i now need to chase materials and/or material
specifications and calculations from MAM. Just a bit frustrating.

Regards,
Builder #227



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I did a web search and found the following site that may shed some light, although not a complete picture. Aircraft aluminum of the 6061 variety is 6061-T6 that I am aware of. Another common grade is 2024-T3. 6061-T6 I think this is what is used by MAM for most skins, but it may be another grade. I believe the attraction here is it is lower in cost and very easy to work with.

6061-T6 has an ultimate tensile strength of around 44-47,000 psi. See the following web site for this info (http://www.matweb.com/search/SpecificMa ... m=MA6061T6).

It depends on the temper designation which 6063 variant you look at. the temper variant is the -xx like -T6 above. 6063-T6 appears to have an ultimate tensile strength is listed as 35,000 psi. See the following web site for this info (http://www.matweb.com/search/SpecificMa ... m=MA6063T6). The grades lower (T1-T5) all appear to have lower ultimate tensile strengths. The grages above T6 appear to be stronger and some as strong as 6061-T6. See the following web site for all the grade links (http://www.matweb.com/search/GetSubcat.asp)

This all sounds fine from a very very simplistic perspective. What is not known is what are the requirements? It may be that any of these will perform just fine. MAM will need to address such a question. Hope this helps.

Rick Muller
SR70

-------------- Original message --------------

I just recieved 2 replacement wing struts from MAM after being deliverd only
one with my kit. The original kit came with a 1.5" square 6061 aluminum tube
to build the strut. The replacement strut material i recievd from MAM
apprears to be 6063 aluminum material that has been anodized. No
manufacturing stamp on the tube to confirm the exact material! Robin has not
yet followed up with the documentation confirming the material and specs.
I've found what i believe is MAM replacement material from Spruce, which,
after further investigation appears to be ornamental aluminum used in the
manufacutring of residential windows.

Question: Should a Moose builder consider using an uknown material to build
such a critical a/c part? Does anyone have any knowledge or a similiar
situation?

Just when i thought i was done with my wing building experience, ( note- i
rejected 3 sets of Murphy Quickbuild wings that I originally ordered due to
what appeared to be quality issues now confirmed by most other QB wings as
profusive leaking), i now need to chase materials and/or material
specifications and calculations from MAM. Just a bit frustrating.

Regards,
Builder #227



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-----Original Message-----
From: Darryl Murphy
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 11:17 AM
To: Robin Dyck
Subject: RE: Wing Strut Material

To All Builders

The square tubing used in the struts is 6061-T6 Aluminum.
We buy the anondized tubing from another aircraft manufacturer. This
manufacture uses a lot of square tubing of different sizes in there kits
and because of the spotty availability of square tubing the manufacture
has had their own extrusion dies made. Their kits have a lot of exposed
tubes so they have them anondized at the extrusion plant before
delivery. The tubes all have 0.120" wall thickness rather than 0.125".
This allows smaller tubes to be inserted without interference.
I hope this clears up any confusion.

Regards
Darryl


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Darryl Murphy
Murphy Aircraft Mfg. Ltd.
dmurphy@murphyair.com

"Towards the Flightline..."

-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Dyck
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 8:30 AM
To: Darryl Murphy
Subject: FW: Wing Strut Material



-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Scott Aldrich
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 8:16 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Wing Strut Material

Hi Aaron,
I don't know if the 6061-T6 is way over kill or not, but the 6063-T6 has
typical yield strength of 22,000 psi - about half what 6061-T6 is.

I wouldn't want the 6063 in there if that is what it is.

FWIW
Scott
Moose 174



-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
sr227@dcsol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 9:49 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Wing Strut Material

I just recieved 2 replacement wing struts from MAM after being deliverd
only

one with my kit. The original kit came with a 1.5" square 6061 aluminum
tube
to build the strut. The replacement strut material i recievd from MAM
apprears to be 6063 aluminum material that has been anodized. No
manufacturing stamp on the tube to confirm the exact material! Robin has
not

yet followed up with the documentation confirming the material and
specs.
I've found what i believe is MAM replacement material from Spruce,
which,
after further investigation appears to be ornamental aluminum used in
the
manufacutring of residential windows.

Question: Should a Moose builder consider using an uknown material to
build

such a critical a/c part? Does anyone have any knowledge or a similiar
situation?

Just when i thought i was done with my wing building experience, ( note-
i
rejected 3 sets of Murphy Quickbuild wings that I originally ordered due
to
what appeared to be quality issues now confirmed by most other QB wings
as
profusive leaking), i now need to chase materials and/or material
specifications and calculations from MAM. Just a bit frustrating.

Regards,
Builder #227



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That was timely...

I wasn't going to bother considering the anonymous (only the factory knows
who 227 is) post through dscol, but anyhow I'd just gone through my rack of
tubes to see what was being referred to and came in from the shop to post
same. I've had four full lengths of 1.5 x 1.5 x .120 for a few years and
noted it was anodized when I recieved it. It cuts/machines the same as 6061
(and you can tell the difference if you've done this long enough). As well
6063 is not generally extruded with round corners either. Usually only sharp
corners....cheap dies.

Surprised after 3 sets of wings they ship you anything ) and shows a
willingness to work with anyone under the right circumstances.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Dyck" <rdyck@murphyair.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 3:42 PM
Subject: FW: Wing Strut Material

-----Original Message-----
From: Darryl Murphy
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 11:17 AM
To: Robin Dyck
Subject: RE: Wing Strut Material

To All Builders

The square tubing used in the struts is 6061-T6 Aluminum.
We buy the anondized tubing from another aircraft manufacturer. This
manufacture uses a lot of square tubing of different sizes in there kits
and because of the spotty availability of square tubing the manufacture
has had their own extrusion dies made. Their kits have a lot of exposed
tubes so they have them anondized at the extrusion plant before
delivery. The tubes all have 0.120" wall thickness rather than 0.125".
This allows smaller tubes to be inserted without interference.
I hope this clears up any confusion.

Regards
Darryl


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Darryl Murphy
Murphy Aircraft Mfg. Ltd.
dmurphy@murphyair.com

"Towards the Flightline..."

-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Dyck
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 8:30 AM
To: Darryl Murphy
Subject: FW: Wing Strut Material



-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Scott Aldrich
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 8:16 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Wing Strut Material

Hi Aaron,
I don't know if the 6061-T6 is way over kill or not, but the 6063-T6 has
typical yield strength of 22,000 psi - about half what 6061-T6 is.

I wouldn't want the 6063 in there if that is what it is.

FWIW
Scott
Moose 174



-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
sr227@dcsol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 9:49 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Wing Strut Material

I just recieved 2 replacement wing struts from MAM after being deliverd
only

one with my kit. The original kit came with a 1.5" square 6061 aluminum
tube
to build the strut. The replacement strut material i recievd from MAM
apprears to be 6063 aluminum material that has been anodized. No
manufacturing stamp on the tube to confirm the exact material! Robin has
not

yet followed up with the documentation confirming the material and
specs.
I've found what i believe is MAM replacement material from Spruce,
which,
after further investigation appears to be ornamental aluminum used in
the
manufacutring of residential windows.

Question: Should a Moose builder consider using an uknown material to
build

such a critical a/c part? Does anyone have any knowledge or a similiar
situation?

Just when i thought i was done with my wing building experience, ( note-
i
rejected 3 sets of Murphy Quickbuild wings that I originally ordered due
to
what appeared to be quality issues now confirmed by most other QB wings
as
profusive leaking), i now need to chase materials and/or material
specifications and calculations from MAM. Just a bit frustrating.

Regards,
Builder #227



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Darrel,

Thanks for your prompt response and clarification to my inquiry.

Sincerely,
Aaron
#227 (wings being hung as we speak)





On 11/4/2005 11:42 AM, rdyck@murphyair.com wrote to rebel-builders:

->
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: Darryl Murphy
-> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 11:17 AM
-> To: Robin Dyck
-> Subject: RE: Wing Strut Material
->
-> To All Builders
->
-> The square tubing used in the struts is 6061-T6 Aluminum.
-> We buy the anondized tubing from another aircraft manufacturer. This
-> manufacture uses a lot of square tubing of different sizes in there kits
-> and because of the spotty availability of square tubing the manufacture
-> has had their own extrusion dies made. Their kits have a lot of exposed
-> tubes so they have them anondized at the extrusion plant before
-> delivery. The tubes all have 0.120" wall thickness rather than 0.125".
-> This allows smaller tubes to be inserted without interference.
-> I hope this clears up any confusion.
->
-> Regards
-> Darryl
->
->
-> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-> Darryl Murphy
-> Murphy Aircraft Mfg. Ltd.
-> dmurphy@murphyair.com
->
-> "Towards the Flightline..."
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: Robin Dyck
-> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 8:30 AM
-> To: Darryl Murphy
-> Subject: FW: Wing Strut Material
->
->
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
-> Scott Aldrich
-> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 8:16 AM
-> To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> Subject: RE: Wing Strut Material
->
-> Hi Aaron,
-> I don't know if the 6061-T6 is way over kill or not, but the 6063-T6 has
-> typical yield strength of 22,000 psi - about half what 6061-T6 is.
->
-> I wouldn't want the 6063 in there if that is what it is.
->
-> FWIW
-> Scott
-> Moose 174
->
->
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
-> sr227@dcsol.com
-> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 9:49 PM
-> To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> Subject: Wing Strut Material
->
-> I just recieved 2 replacement wing struts from MAM after being deliverd
-> only
->
-> one with my kit. The original kit came with a 1.5" square 6061 aluminum
-> tube
-> to build the strut. The replacement strut material i recievd from MAM
-> apprears to be 6063 aluminum material that has been anodized. No
-> manufacturing stamp on the tube to confirm the exact material! Robin has
-> not
->
-> yet followed up with the documentation confirming the material and
-> specs.
-> I've found what i believe is MAM replacement material from Spruce,
-> which,
-> after further investigation appears to be ornamental aluminum used in
-> the
-> manufacutring of residential windows.
->
-> Question: Should a Moose builder consider using an uknown material to
-> build
->
-> such a critical a/c part? Does anyone have any knowledge or a similiar
-> situation?
->
-> Just when i thought i was done with my wing building experience, ( note-
-> i
-> rejected 3 sets of Murphy Quickbuild wings that I originally ordered due
-> to
-> what appeared to be quality issues now confirmed by most other QB wings
-> as
-> profusive leaking), i now need to chase materials and/or material
-> specifications and calculations from MAM. Just a bit frustrating.
->
-> Regards,
-> Builder #227
->
->
->
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> Subscription services located at:
-> https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
->
->
->
->
->
->
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> Subscription services located at:
-> https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
->
->
->
->
->
->





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Rick,

Thanks for the detailed investigation. Darrel posted a clarification on this
site today.

Happy building.

Regards,

Aaron

On 11/3/2005 6:52 AM, rickhm@comcast.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> I did a web search and found the following site that may shed some light,
although not a complete picture. Aircraft aluminum of the 6061 variety is
6061-T6 that I am aware of. Another common grade is 2024-T3. 6061-T6 I
think this is what is used by MAM for most skins, but it may be another
grade. I believe the attraction here is it is lower in cost and very easy to
work with.
->
-> 6061-T6 has an ultimate tensile strength of around 44-47,000 psi. See the
following web site for this info
(http://www.matweb.com/search/SpecificMa ... m=MA6061T6).
->
-> It depends on the temper designation which 6063 variant you look at. the
temper variant is the -xx like -T6 above. 6063-T6 appears to have an
ultimate tensile strength is listed as 35,000 psi. See the following web
site for this info (http://www.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?
bassnum=MA6063T6). The grades lower (T1-T5) all appear to have lower
ultimate tensile strengths. The grages above T6 appear to be stronger and
some as strong as 6061-T6. See the following web site for all the grade links
(http://www.matweb.com/search/GetSubcat.asp)
->
-> This all sounds fine from a very very simplistic perspective. What is not
known is what are the requirements? It may be that any of these will perform
just fine. MAM will need to address such a question. Hope this helps.
->
-> Rick Muller
-> SR70
->
-> -------------- Original message --------------
->
-> > I just recieved 2 replacement wing struts from MAM after being deliverd
only
-> > one with my kit. The original kit came with a 1.5" square 6061 aluminum
tube
-> > to build the strut. The replacement strut material i recievd from MAM
-> > apprears to be 6063 aluminum material that has been anodized. No
-> > manufacturing stamp on the tube to confirm the exact material! Robin has
not
-> > yet followed up with the documentation confirming the material and
specs.
-> > I've found what i believe is MAM replacement material from Spruce,
which,
-> > after further investigation appears to be ornamental aluminum used in
the
-> > manufacutring of residential windows.
-> >
-> > Question: Should a Moose builder consider using an uknown material to
build
-> > such a critical a/c part? Does anyone have any knowledge or a similiar
-> > situation?
-> >
-> > Just when i thought i was done with my wing building experience, ( note-
i
-> > rejected 3 sets of Murphy Quickbuild wings that I originally ordered due
to
-> > what appeared to be quality issues now confirmed by most other QB wings
as
-> > profusive leaking), i now need to chase materials and/or material
-> > specifications and calculations from MAM. Just a bit frustrating.
-> >
-> > Regards,
-> > Builder #227
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >





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Arron, I have been interested in the Moose for a while and I am envious of
all you who are building . I have a couple Questions that I would like to
ask and am wondering if I could call you? I am on "Whidbey Island , Wash.
If you do not mind giving me your number I do not expexct you to pay long
distance charges. thanks Mark Myres
ps I have purchased my M-14 and prop. Just saving up for the Kit.
----- Original Message -----
From: <sr227@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 3:53 PM
Subject: RE: FW: Wing Strut Material

Darrel,

Thanks for your prompt response and clarification to my inquiry.

Sincerely,
Aaron
#227 (wings being hung as we speak)





On 11/4/2005 11:42 AM, rdyck@murphyair.com wrote to rebel-builders:

->
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: Darryl Murphy
-> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 11:17 AM
-> To: Robin Dyck
-> Subject: RE: Wing Strut Material
->
-> To All Builders
->
-> The square tubing used in the struts is 6061-T6 Aluminum.
-> We buy the anondized tubing from another aircraft manufacturer. This
-> manufacture uses a lot of square tubing of different sizes in there
kits
-> and because of the spotty availability of square tubing the manufacture
-> has had their own extrusion dies made. Their kits have a lot of
exposed
-> tubes so they have them anondized at the extrusion plant before
-> delivery. The tubes all have 0.120" wall thickness rather than 0.125".
-> This allows smaller tubes to be inserted without interference.
-> I hope this clears up any confusion.
->
-> Regards
-> Darryl
->
->
-> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-> Darryl Murphy
-> Murphy Aircraft Mfg. Ltd.
-> dmurphy@murphyair.com
->
-> "Towards the Flightline..."
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: Robin Dyck
-> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 8:30 AM
-> To: Darryl Murphy
-> Subject: FW: Wing Strut Material
->
->
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
-> Scott Aldrich
-> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 8:16 AM
-> To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> Subject: RE: Wing Strut Material
->
-> Hi Aaron,
-> I don't know if the 6061-T6 is way over kill or not, but the 6063-T6
has
-> typical yield strength of 22,000 psi - about half what 6061-T6 is.
->
-> I wouldn't want the 6063 in there if that is what it is.
->
-> FWIW
-> Scott
-> Moose 174
->
->
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
-> sr227@dcsol.com
-> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 9:49 PM
-> To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> Subject: Wing Strut Material
->
-> I just recieved 2 replacement wing struts from MAM after being deliverd
-> only
->
-> one with my kit. The original kit came with a 1.5" square 6061
aluminum
-> tube
-> to build the strut. The replacement strut material i recievd from MAM
-> apprears to be 6063 aluminum material that has been anodized. No
-> manufacturing stamp on the tube to confirm the exact material! Robin
has
-> not
->
-> yet followed up with the documentation confirming the material and
-> specs.
-> I've found what i believe is MAM replacement material from Spruce,
-> which,
-> after further investigation appears to be ornamental aluminum used in
-> the
-> manufacutring of residential windows.
->
-> Question: Should a Moose builder consider using an uknown material to
-> build
->
-> such a critical a/c part? Does anyone have any knowledge or a similiar
-> situation?
->
-> Just when i thought i was done with my wing building experience, (
note-
-> i
-> rejected 3 sets of Murphy Quickbuild wings that I originally ordered
due
-> to
-> what appeared to be quality issues now confirmed by most other QB wings
-> as
-> profusive leaking), i now need to chase materials and/or material
-> specifications and calculations from MAM. Just a bit frustrating.
->
-> Regards,
-> Builder #227
->
->
->
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> Subscription services located at:
-> https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
->
->
->
->
->
->
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> Subscription services located at:
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