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Lycoming crankshaft / prop strike

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Rick Harper

Lycoming crankshaft / prop strike

Post by Rick Harper » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm

G'day Wayne & Fellow builders ...

As most of you know , if I recently bent our Rebel - trying a little
bit too hard to win a spot landing competition :o( .... But with the
help of Walter and Julius I am on the road to repairs and recovery :o)

I have a question for Wayne and any others with helpful ideas

when the left leg collapsed the propeller hit the deck - shearing off
the tips of both ends
(the propeller was wooden , and the engine was at idle when it hit )

I found enough pieces of the propeller to glue it back to gether - and
this was good enough to use as a template to carve another propeller
from it

some people say that I must bulk strip the engine as it has had a
propeller strike .... others say this is not necessary as the propeller
was wooden

I asked a friend (aircraft engineer ) - who knows many of the Lycoming
people for his opinion and he said that Lycoming would "sit on the
fence" if pushed for something in writing

using common sense , I have put I a run out gauge on the crankshaft and
it has absolutely no deviation at the flange - so, to me, I consider
that there is no need to bulk strip the engine

Now, here is my question :
how many of you out there have had a similar situation .... and what
was the outcome of your dilemma

(I have been asked to write an article for our national sport aircraft
magazine on how I dealt with the aftermath of the accident and the steps
I took to put the plane back in the air - keeping everything to legal
and above board )

under the rules of the experimental category , as the builder of the
aircraft , I am allowed to repair and modifying the plane as I see fit
.... but the engine becomes a bit of a grey area !?!

any ideas / and suggestions would be gratefully received

Rick Harper
541R



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Wayne G. O'Shea

Lycoming crankshaft / prop strike

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm

Can't help you on your Ozzy air reg rules...but in Canada considering we can
take an engine from a crashed cherokee and throw it on our homebuilt without
even bothering to dial check the crank...common sense rules in the interest
of (your own) safety.

I would suggest that taking the tips off a wooden prop and having a Zero
runout dial check you are good to go. I've seen three METAL prop strikes now
where the $$$$'s was spent for tear down and nothing (relating to the prop
strike) was found wrong with any of the engines.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@optusnet.com.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 7:24 PM
Subject: Lycoming crankshaft / prop strike

G'day Wayne & Fellow builders ...

As most of you know , if I recently bent our Rebel - trying a little
bit too hard to win a spot landing competition :o( .... But with the
help of Walter and Julius I am on the road to repairs and recovery :o)

I have a question for Wayne and any others with helpful ideas

when the left leg collapsed the propeller hit the deck - shearing off
the tips of both ends
(the propeller was wooden , and the engine was at idle when it hit )

I found enough pieces of the propeller to glue it back to gether - and
this was good enough to use as a template to carve another propeller
from it

some people say that I must bulk strip the engine as it has had a
propeller strike .... others say this is not necessary as the propeller
was wooden

I asked a friend (aircraft engineer ) - who knows many of the Lycoming
people for his opinion and he said that Lycoming would "sit on the
fence" if pushed for something in writing

using common sense , I have put I a run out gauge on the crankshaft and
it has absolutely no deviation at the flange - so, to me, I consider
that there is no need to bulk strip the engine

Now, here is my question :
how many of you out there have had a similar situation .... and what
was the outcome of your dilemma

(I have been asked to write an article for our national sport aircraft
magazine on how I dealt with the aftermath of the accident and the steps
I took to put the plane back in the air - keeping everything to legal
and above board )

under the rules of the experimental category , as the builder of the
aircraft , I am allowed to repair and modifying the plane as I see fit
.... but the engine becomes a bit of a grey area !?!

any ideas / and suggestions would be gratefully received

Rick Harper
541R



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Rick Harper

Lycoming crankshaft / prop strike

Post by Rick Harper » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm

Thanks Wayne ... that's the kind of thing I wanted to hear

My argument is going to be "common sense" VS bureaucracy & bullshit !
..... :o)

Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: Lycoming crankshaft / prop strike


Can't help you on your Ozzy air reg rules...but in Canada considering
we can
take an engine from a crashed cherokee and throw it on our homebuilt
without
even bothering to dial check the crank...common sense rules in the
interest
of (your own) safety.

I would suggest that taking the tips off a wooden prop and having a
Zero
runout dial check you are good to go. I've seen three METAL prop
strikes now
where the $$$$'s was spent for tear down and nothing (relating to the
prop
strike) was found wrong with any of the engines.

Wayne




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Wayne G. O'Shea

Lycoming crankshaft / prop strike

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm

That and leave the prop strike out of your "report"!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@optusnet.com.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: Lycoming crankshaft / prop strike

Thanks Wayne ... that's the kind of thing I wanted to hear

My argument is going to be "common sense" VS bureaucracy & bullshit !
..... :o)

Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: Lycoming crankshaft / prop strike


Can't help you on your Ozzy air reg rules...but in Canada considering
we can
take an engine from a crashed cherokee and throw it on our homebuilt
without
even bothering to dial check the crank...common sense rules in the
interest
of (your own) safety.

I would suggest that taking the tips off a wooden prop and having a
Zero
runout dial check you are good to go. I've seen three METAL prop
strikes now
where the $$$$'s was spent for tear down and nothing (relating to the
prop
strike) was found wrong with any of the engines.

Wayne




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Mike Kimball

Lycoming crankshaft / prop strike

Post by Mike Kimball » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm

I felt the same way as Wayne about my forged steel crank versus a splintered
wood prop at idle RPM on my KR-2 years ago. I shouldn't admit it, but I
just bought a new prop, repaired the fiberglass damage and went back to
flying with no trouble at all. I didn't even check the crank. Ah, but I
was young then and bullet proof. I'd probably check the crank now that I'm
older, more cautious, and not even bullet resistant.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 3:32 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Lycoming crankshaft / prop strike

Can't help you on your Ozzy air reg rules...but in Canada considering we can
take an engine from a crashed cherokee and throw it on our homebuilt without
even bothering to dial check the crank...common sense rules in the interest
of (your own) safety.

I would suggest that taking the tips off a wooden prop and having a Zero
runout dial check you are good to go. I've seen three METAL prop strikes now
where the $$$$'s was spent for tear down and nothing (relating to the prop
strike) was found wrong with any of the engines.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@optusnet.com.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 7:24 PM
Subject: Lycoming crankshaft / prop strike

G'day Wayne & Fellow builders ...

As most of you know , if I recently bent our Rebel - trying a little
bit too hard to win a spot landing competition :o( .... But with the
help of Walter and Julius I am on the road to repairs and recovery :o)

I have a question for Wayne and any others with helpful ideas

when the left leg collapsed the propeller hit the deck - shearing off
the tips of both ends
(the propeller was wooden , and the engine was at idle when it hit )

I found enough pieces of the propeller to glue it back to gether - and
this was good enough to use as a template to carve another propeller
from it

some people say that I must bulk strip the engine as it has had a
propeller strike .... others say this is not necessary as the propeller
was wooden

I asked a friend (aircraft engineer ) - who knows many of the Lycoming
people for his opinion and he said that Lycoming would "sit on the
fence" if pushed for something in writing

using common sense , I have put I a run out gauge on the crankshaft and
it has absolutely no deviation at the flange - so, to me, I consider
that there is no need to bulk strip the engine

Now, here is my question :
how many of you out there have had a similar situation .... and what
was the outcome of your dilemma

(I have been asked to write an article for our national sport aircraft
magazine on how I dealt with the aftermath of the accident and the steps
I took to put the plane back in the air - keeping everything to legal
and above board )

under the rules of the experimental category , as the builder of the
aircraft , I am allowed to repair and modifying the plane as I see fit
.... but the engine becomes a bit of a grey area !?!

any ideas / and suggestions would be gratefully received

Rick Harper
541R



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Jeff McMurrer

Lycoming crankshaft / prop strike

Post by Jeff McMurrer » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm

Rick,

We

Rebflyer

Lycoming crankshaft / prop strike

Post by Rebflyer » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm

Hi Rick,
I agree with Wayne on the total strip down of the engine.
But, (here we go) the reason that the US has an AD on this was due to the
fact the drive gear on the crank would fail in about 200-300 hrs. I saw 2
that this happened to. 1 on the ground and the other easily returned to the
airport as he was on a close in downwind departure when it stopped. Both had no
runout on the post prop strike inspection
and were both around 300 hrs. I'm not sure how other Countries apply the
AD's but the one thing you could do to be extra safe is to pull the accessory
case and have the gear checked for fractures and cracks. OF course I have
also seen a gear after inspection with absolutely nothing wrong with it. 1
engine came to a full stop on the strike the other 2 continued to run. IMHO
Curt Martin
N97MR




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steve whitenect

Lycoming crankshaft / prop strike

Post by steve whitenect » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:56 pm

Here's a metal to metal account. Several hundred hrs on factory rebuild.
Engine 0-470 in a 182. Engine start with tow bar attached to front oleo and
shut down immediately. Curled tips back about 11/2 -2". Over $20,000 when
the dust settled. Crank had stress lines in the middle bearing bosses and
the crank gear showed the same when NDT'd. "State" aircraft so there was no
shortage of money and work was done at a very reputable shop.

Steve W.





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