The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm**

Hi Bob !

I'll jump in here - Your best bet is to ask Prince for their
recommendation on pitch for your particular setup. The Prince prop
changes pitch with load, so their numbers are QUITE different from
everybody elses ! :-)

I think they will suggest a 74 x 44 for your 160 hp, for floats,
but best to just ask them - if they are wrong, and it doesn't perform
the way you want, they WILL replace it !! They've done this before !

FWIW, the Prince on Pierre's weighed about 9 lb. - pretty impressive,
considering it has the metal leading edge protection, as well as
carbon-fiber coating. Dale said that he got 100 fpm more climb than
the Sensenich, and the same cruise, on Murphy 1800 amphibs !

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 28 September 2005 08:53 pm, Bob Fisher wrote:

thanks much bruce thats a heavy prop , like mine any comments on
relative efficiency?

if you were buying a Prince-- which length and pitch would you order with

a

160 hp engine?

bob fisher
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Georgen" <bgeorgen@peoplepc.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: RE: Which o 320 is in your Rebel?

I weighed my Sensenich prop (74x56) and it was 40 lbs. with nose cone,
front and rear plates, spacer and bolts.
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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm**

That's impressive! I wonder what the down side is to using one of their
props? More expensive? Less durable? I would think that everyone would be
using them?

Anyway, thanks for the information. I am going to check them out over the
winter as the Sensenich prop on the airplane is new, so would get a decent
price should I decide to sell it.

Jim!

-> From: Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca>
-> Reply-To: beep@sympatico.ca
-> Organization: InterBIZ, and Patterson Systems
-> To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> Subject: Rebel: Props .... was - Which o 320 is in your Rebel?
-> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:24:45 -0400
-> User-Agent: KMail/1.7.2
->
-> I think they will suggest a 74 x 44 for your 160 hp, for floats,
-> but best to just ask them - if they are wrong, and it doesn't perform
-> the way you want, they WILL replace it !! They've done this before !
->
-> FWIW, the Prince on Pierre's weighed about 9 lb. - pretty impressive,
-> considering it has the metal leading edge protection, as well as
-> carbon-fiber coating. Dale said that he got 100 fpm more climb than
-> the Sensenich, and the same cruise, on Murphy 1800 amphibs !
->
-> .....bobp
->

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm**

First, which size Sensenich are we comparing it to with the 100
fpm more climb? Then, what exactly is the static rpm of the
Prince for take-off, and what is the WOT straight and level rpm.
That will tell me a lot with how it will compare to my current
Sensenich on floats.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Rebel: Props .... was - Which o 320 is in your Rebel?

Hi Bob !

I'll jump in here - Your best bet is to ask Prince
for their
recommendation on pitch for your particular setup.
The Prince prop
changes pitch with load, so their numbers are QUITE
different from
everybody elses ! :-)

I think they will suggest a 74 x 44 for your 160
hp, for floats,
but best to just ask them - if they are wrong, and it
doesn't perform
the way you want, they WILL replace it !! They've
done this before !

FWIW, the Prince on Pierre's weighed about 9 lb.
- pretty impressive,
considering it has the metal leading edge protection,
as well as
carbon-fiber coating. Dale said that he got 100 fpm
more climb than
the Sensenich, and the same cruise, on Murphy 1800 amphibs !

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 28 September 2005 08:53 pm, Bob Fisher wrote:
thanks much bruce thats a heavy prop , like
mine any comments on
relative efficiency?

if you were buying a Prince-- which length and pitch
would you order with
a
160 hp engine?

bob fisher
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Georgen" <bgeorgen@peoplepc.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: RE: Which o 320 is in your Rebel?

I weighed my Sensenich prop (74x56) and it was 40
lbs. with nose cone,
front and rear plates, spacer and bolts.
________________________________________

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm**

Hi Walter !

I think it was a 74 x 54 Sensenich - all the details are in the
archives - check for mail from Dale Kopff.
dale kopff <dkopff@earthlink.net>

If I remember correctly, he was getting 2,500 static, and the
same, all the way up to cruise ... something to do with the
"almost constant-speed" thing that these props do.... ;-)

Dale went from Warp Drive to McCauley to Sensenich to Prince,
all with O-320 on Murphy 1800 Amphibs - I think he is very happy
with the Prince, both for performance, and the company, for support.
NO erosion from water spray so far !

AFAIK, there are now about 30 Rebels flying with Prince props,
and more coming - this looks like the way to go for light weight,
lower cost, better performance, and safety for the engine (if you
DO hit something, they break, rather than bending the crankshaft !) :-)

The only thing I've found so far to dislike is that the trailing
edge is very sharp, making hand-propping a "leather gloves" proposition !

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 28 September 2005 09:41 pm, Walter Klatt wrote:

First, which size Sensenich are we comparing it to with the 100
fpm more climb? Then, what exactly is the static rpm of the
Prince for take-off, and what is the WOT straight and level rpm.
That will tell me a lot with how it will compare to my current
Sensenich on floats.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Rebel: Props .... was - Which o 320 is in your Rebel?

Hi Bob !

I'll jump in here - Your best bet is to ask Prince
for their
recommendation on pitch for your particular setup.
The Prince prop
changes pitch with load, so their numbers are QUITE
different from
everybody elses ! :-)

I think they will suggest a 74 x 44 for your 160
hp, for floats,
but best to just ask them - if they are wrong, and it
doesn't perform
the way you want, they WILL replace it !! They've
done this before !

FWIW, the Prince on Pierre's weighed about 9 lb.
- pretty impressive,
considering it has the metal leading edge protection,
as well as
carbon-fiber coating. Dale said that he got 100 fpm
more climb than
the Sensenich, and the same cruise, on Murphy 1800 amphibs !

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 28 September 2005 08:53 pm, Bob Fisher wrote:
thanks much bruce thats a heavy prop , like
mine any comments on
relative efficiency?

if you were buying a Prince-- which length and pitch
would you order with
a
160 hp engine?

bob fisher
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Georgen" <bgeorgen@peoplepc.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: RE: Which o 320 is in your Rebel?

lbs. with nose cone,
front and rear plates, spacer and bolts.

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm**

Just checked back in the archives and found the last discussion
with Dale about his Prince prop. His previous prop was a 74 X 56
Sensenich which got 2400 static and only 2600 WOT, and that was
with a 160 hp 0320. Those figures don't make sense to me,
actually, as I know Bruce G had that same prop and I think got
higher rpms with just 150 hp. I'm not suggesting the Prince isn't
better, as he described, but for some reason that performance is
not very good for that Sensenich.

His Prince does 2500 static, but he didn't give a WOT number. His
climb rate solo was 1200 fpm which is exactly what I got with my
Warp Drive and 150 hp. My 74 X 54 Sensenich does 1100 fpm solo,
but still beats my Warp Drive on take-off at 2500 static. WOT for
me now is 2720.

With the constant speed type blades, I wonder if it is possible
to pitch the Prince to get 2600 on take-off and not sacrifice
cruise and top end. I know my Warp didn't work that way, as
take-off was only 2450, climb was 2650 and then it would over rev
on WOT.

Sometimes the best way to compare is side by side take offs from
the water, climbs, and then WOT. That's when the fine differences
show up. That how Julius and his 160 hp decided to replace his
MCauly with a Sensenich.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rebel: Props .... was - Which o 320 is in
your Rebel?

Hi Walter !

I think it was a 74 x 54 Sensenich - all the
details are in the
archives - check for mail from Dale Kopff.
dale kopff <dkopff@earthlink.net>

If I remember correctly, he was getting 2,500
static, and the
same, all the way up to cruise ... something to do with the
"almost constant-speed" thing that these props do.... ;-)

Dale went from Warp Drive to McCauley to
Sensenich to Prince,
all with O-320 on Murphy 1800 Amphibs - I think he is
very happy
with the Prince, both for performance, and the
company, for support.
NO erosion from water spray so far !

AFAIK, there are now about 30 Rebels flying with
Prince props,
and more coming - this looks like the way to go for
light weight,
lower cost, better performance, and safety for the
engine (if you
DO hit something, they break, rather than bending the
crankshaft !) :-)

The only thing I've found so far to dislike is
that the trailing
edge is very sharp, making hand-propping a "leather
gloves" proposition !

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 28 September 2005 09:41 pm, Walter Klatt wrote:
First, which size Sensenich are we comparing it to
with the 100
fpm more climb? Then, what exactly is the static rpm of the
Prince for take-off, and what is the WOT straight
and level rpm.
That will tell me a lot with how it will compare to
my current
Sensenich on floats.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Rebel: Props .... was - Which o 320 is in
your Rebel?

Hi Bob !

I'll jump in here - Your best bet is to ask Prince
for their
recommendation on pitch for your particular setup.
The Prince prop
changes pitch with load, so their numbers are QUITE
different from
everybody elses ! :-)

I think they will suggest a 74 x 44 for your 160
hp, for floats,
but best to just ask them - if they are wrong, and it
doesn't perform
the way you want, they WILL replace it !! They've
done this before !

FWIW, the Prince on Pierre's weighed about 9 lb.
- pretty impressive,
considering it has the metal leading edge protection,
as well as
carbon-fiber coating. Dale said that he got 100 fpm
more climb than
the Sensenich, and the same cruise, on Murphy 1800
amphibs !
.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 28 September 2005 08:53 pm, Bob Fisher wrote: mine any comments on would you order with
a lbs. with nose cone,
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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm**

Does anyone know the cost for the prince prop? A retro would require a new nose cone as well.

Bruce

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm**

Walter,

I re-pitched my Sensenich to a 54 last winter and really wanted to make it to your place this summer to compare. Without my spring gear anymore we should be about the same weight. Remeber last year with a 56 I almost didn't make it off Nimpo Lake.

You can still come to Priest lake this year if you get any time off. I have your room already for you. :-)

Bruce

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm**

Hi Bruce !

I think they are about $2,200 USD ... depending on options.
The old spinner might work OK - hub is about the same size ....

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 28 September 2005 11:33 pm, Bruce Georgen wrote:

Does anyone know the cost for the prince prop? A retro would require a new

nose cone as well.

Bruce

________________________________________
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A better way to Internet
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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm**

Hi Bob,

Thanks, that's more than the Sensenich, around $1800 from MAM I think, but it would be worth it for the extra performance and weight savings. I need the useful load because of all the spare tires and tubes I carry now!

When are you headed west again? Walter has been checking out some pretty nice alpine lakes in BC that are an hour or so from his place. I have a place at Priest lake too just south of the 49th parallel in Idaho. There is a nice grass strip at Cauvanah Bay for the wheel guys with nice accommodations just 8 miles away.

Bruce G

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm**

Sorry to be so long jumping in as Robert says. The Prince prop is both
lighter and smoother than the Sensenich and since the pitch is much finer
gives much better off the water Performance ( 12 seconds off the water with
Full Lotus floats at 1700lbs and 25 degrees) with good cruise performance. I
have a a 74-44 Qtip. Lonnie Prince is very knowldgeable (can help with the
over the border tax hit) and gives excellent service as well. He repitched
my prop at no charge and I understand he did the same for Dale (correct me
if I am wrong Dale). They come in at around $2500 Cdn.
If you need a spacer and/or bolts Sam Tilleman at Sabre Manufacturing
(saber@itexas.net)in Texas is the guy.
The Prince I have is 23 lbs lighter than the Sensenich, weighed on a
calibrated digital scale - a very significant difference given that it is
right at the pointy end! I am very pleased with mine so far.

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: September 29, 2005 3:14 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rebel: Props .... was - Which o 320 is in your Rebel?

Hi Bruce !

I think they are about $2,200 USD ... depending on options.
The old spinner might work OK - hub is about the same size ....

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 28 September 2005 11:33 pm, Bruce Georgen wrote:

Does anyone know the cost for the prince prop? A retro would require a
new

nose cone as well.

Bruce

________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm**

-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Hardie <nhardie@lincsat.com>
Sent: Oct 1, 2005 8:28 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Rebel: Props .... was - Which o 320 is in your Rebel?

Lonnie Prince did re-pitch my first prop, and then replaced the prop with a new one at no charge other than shipping. I also bought my spacer and bolts from Sabre.

I bought my prop through Murphy company.

Dale
N295RT

Sorry to be so long jumping in as Robert says. The Prince prop is both
lighter and smoother than the Sensenich and since the pitch is much finer
gives much better off the water Performance ( 12 seconds off the water with
Full Lotus floats at 1700lbs and 25 degrees) with good cruise performance. I
have a a 74-44 Qtip. Lonnie Prince is very knowldgeable (can help with the
over the border tax hit) and gives excellent service as well. He repitched
my prop at no charge and I understand he did the same for Dale (correct me
if I am wrong Dale). They come in at around $2500 Cdn.
If you need a spacer and/or bolts Sam Tilleman at Sabre Manufacturing
(saber@itexas.net)in Texas is the guy.
The Prince I have is 23 lbs lighter than the Sensenich, weighed on a
calibrated digital scale - a very significant difference given that it is
right at the pointy end! I am very pleased with mine so far.

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: September 29, 2005 3:14 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rebel: Props .... was - Which o 320 is in your Rebel?

Hi Bruce !

I think they are about $2,200 USD ... depending on options.
The old spinner might work OK - hub is about the same size ....

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 28 September 2005 11:33 pm, Bruce Georgen wrote:

Does anyone know the cost for the prince prop? A retro would require a
new

nose cone as well.

Bruce

________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com

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