The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:38 pm**

As mentioned earlier I just had an Elite flown in here late this afternoon
for a USA to Cdn inspection prior to TC having a go at it.

Wondering if the Elite manual is complete or different than the Rebels....or
if the California builder just ad-lib'd a few things!

Just wanting to be sure before someone else does the same things.

No rudder pedal return springs (no balancer cable in leu of either)..so as
soon as feet come off the pedals rudder cables go slack. This is a huge,
flutter waiting to happen, problem.

2.2 degrees wing dihedreal instead of 1 degree.

Also noted no pulley on the upper elevator cable between the seats (not in
manual I know), nor at the cabin to tailcone transition for the rudder
cables....again not in the manuals..but required to appease at least the
Ontario MD-RA inspections..don't know about TC..we'll find out in October.

Probably a larger list tomorrow night...this was from a quick 10 minute look
over before I closed the hangar door and called it a LONG day.

I should also be of much better help to the Elite guys once this has been
gone thru top to bottom over the next couple days. There's other things I've
also noted, that will need to be upgraded before we mount a set of 2200
Clamars to it in the Spring, but nothing that is necessary to get thru the
TC inspection.

Thanks,
Wayne

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:38 pm**

Dear Wayne,

My Elite manual definitely specifies springs on the rudder pedals, and he
manual calls for 1 degree dihedral.

Jeffrey

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 6:23 PM
Subject: Elite inspection

As mentioned earlier I just had an Elite flown in here late this afternoon
for a USA to Cdn inspection prior to TC having a go at it.

Wondering if the Elite manual is complete or different than the
Rebels....or
if the California builder just ad-lib'd a few things!

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:38 pm**

Thanks Jeffrey...just weeding out the "excuses". It apparently flies
straight, etc...we'll work out the quirks and make it great!

Fire that engine up yet??

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Steenson" <jsteenson1@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: Elite inspection

Dear Wayne,

My Elite manual definitely specifies springs on the rudder pedals, and he
manual calls for 1 degree dihedral.

Jeffrey

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 6:23 PM
Subject: Elite inspection

As mentioned earlier I just had an Elite flown in here late this

afternoon

for a USA to Cdn inspection prior to TC having a go at it.

Wondering if the Elite manual is complete or different than the
Rebels....or
if the California builder just ad-lib'd a few things!

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:38 pm**

Dear Wayne,

Not too far away from that great milestone, but the last year workwise has
been absolutely ruinous to my building schedule. I wound up having to
replace my stabilizer attach brackets because of a screwup trying to
compensate for a degree of twist that somehow got introduced to the cone
extension. But the tail feathers now line up true. So it is just to finish
off the cowling, mount the wings, and do the mixer control to the
ailerons/flaps. Eclipse Aircraft has offered to paint my plane to give
their paint shop practice -- although I suspect that I wouldn't be that far
behind the learning curve for their new hires.

Best wishes!

Jeffrey

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: Elite inspection

Thanks Jeffrey...just weeding out the "excuses". It apparently flies
straight, etc...we'll work out the quirks and make it great!

Fire that engine up yet??

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Steenson" <jsteenson1@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: Elite inspection

Dear Wayne,

My Elite manual definitely specifies springs on the rudder pedals, and he
manual calls for 1 degree dihedral.

Jeffrey

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 6:23 PM
Subject: Elite inspection

As mentioned earlier I just had an Elite flown in here late this
afternoon
for a USA to Cdn inspection prior to TC having a go at it.

Wondering if the Elite manual is complete or different than the
Rebels....or
if the California builder just ad-lib'd a few things!

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:38 pm**

Wayne,
You mention here a balancer cable. I read an article somewhere that was
saying all aircraft with cable controlled rudders should have a "closed loop
system" i.e. there should be a cable connecting the two rudder pedals (using
extra pulleys of course) in addition to the ones going to the rudder, and no
return springs. The point he was making, if I remember correctly, was that
if a rudder cable breaks with a return spring "open loop" system the spring
on the other side will deflect the rudder to that side and there would be
nothing the pilot could do short of trying to wedge your foot under the
pedal and fight the spring. With a closed loop, no spring system the rudder
would simply trail in the slipstream if a cable breaks. Or it might flutter
as you say.
The Elite builder obviously didn't complete either type of system, but it
got me thinking about that article again. I believe it was in Kitplanes or
Sport Aviation about 4 or 5 months ago.
Has anyone used a closed loop system on an Elite or Rebel?
Jesse

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Elite inspection

No rudder pedal return springs (no balancer cable in leu of either)..so as
soon as feet come off the pedals rudder cables go slack. This is a huge,
flutter waiting to happen, problem.

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:38 pm**

I removed one from Bob P's XWI ! Positioning of the balancer cable and
pulleys made for uneven cable tension at different pedal positions.

I read that article too Jesse and it does have merit...to a point. I can fly
a Rebel with the rudder jammed to the floor and opposite stick.
Sideways..but if flies and I could make it home or to a suitable landing
area that way. I guess the only difference a balancer cable would make is if
you took you feet off the pedals the rudder might self center......unless
it's one of Chris Heinz's wonders with a full flying rudder..they'll peg to
one side.....I along with my wife on board and kids not even knowing we were
both in the air lived thru that one!

Only make your springs tight enough to take the cable slack out when the
pedal is to the floor and released...no more tension than required. You
could also get your toe under the "floored" pedal and lift it back up to let
the rudder center. Key is...make sure you use a PROPER nico pressing tool.
Check for proper squeeze with a gauge and THREE squeezes no two as I have
found and at one time appears to have been acceptable with Cubs coming out
of Lockhaven. Make sure your turn buckles are fully engaged and all hardware
in safety. I know of one, and maybe the one in the article you are referring
to that the rudder cable came undone because it had never been safety wired
and unscrewed in-flight.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 9:56 PM
Subject: RE: Elite inspection

Wayne,
You mention here a balancer cable. I read an article somewhere that was
saying all aircraft with cable controlled rudders should have a "closed

loop

system" i.e. there should be a cable connecting the two rudder pedals

(using

extra pulleys of course) in addition to the ones going to the rudder, and

no

return springs. The point he was making, if I remember correctly, was that
if a rudder cable breaks with a return spring "open loop" system the

spring

on the other side will deflect the rudder to that side and there would be
nothing the pilot could do short of trying to wedge your foot under the
pedal and fight the spring. With a closed loop, no spring system the

rudder

would simply trail in the slipstream if a cable breaks. Or it might

flutter

as you say.
The Elite builder obviously didn't complete either type of system, but it
got me thinking about that article again. I believe it was in Kitplanes or
Sport Aviation about 4 or 5 months ago.
Has anyone used a closed loop system on an Elite or Rebel?
Jesse

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Elite inspection

No rudder pedal return springs (no balancer cable in leu of either)..so

as

soon as feet come off the pedals rudder cables go slack. This is a huge,
flutter waiting to happen, problem.

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:38 pm**

Wayne:

You're right on the return springs and dihedral. Also right that the manual
does not mention the two pulleys. I have a modified elevator loop that does
not use the pulley between the seats, so can't speak to that, but my rudder
cables have no pulleys and were accepted by my Eastern Ontario inspector.

There is a requirement to use good practice when carrying out the work,
which would cover the return springs issue, but is there any requirement to
abide by the kit manufactuer's design? Isn't the dihedral, like the gross
weight, what the manufacturer (i.e. builder) says it is? I'm not saying
it's a good idea in this case, but is it grounds for failing the inspection?

Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:23 PM
Subject: Elite inspection

As mentioned earlier I just had an Elite flown in here late this afternoon
for a USA to Cdn inspection prior to TC having a go at it.

Wondering if the Elite manual is complete or different than the

Rebels....or

if the California builder just ad-lib'd a few things!

Just wanting to be sure before someone else does the same things.

No rudder pedal return springs (no balancer cable in leu of either)..so as
soon as feet come off the pedals rudder cables go slack. This is a huge,
flutter waiting to happen, problem.

2.2 degrees wing dihedreal instead of 1 degree.

Also noted no pulley on the upper elevator cable between the seats (not in
manual I know), nor at the cabin to tailcone transition for the rudder
cables....again not in the manuals..but required to appease at least the
Ontario MD-RA inspections..don't know about TC..we'll find out in October.

Probably a larger list tomorrow night...this was from a quick 10 minute

look

over before I closed the hangar door and called it a LONG day.

I should also be of much better help to the Elite guys once this has been
gone thru top to bottom over the next couple days. There's other things

I've

also noted, that will need to be upgraded before we mount a set of 2200
Clamars to it in the Spring, but nothing that is necessary to get thru the
TC inspection.

Thanks,
Wayne

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:38 pm**

Jack Wiebe is doing so on his.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 9:56 PM
Subject: RE: Elite inspection

Wayne,
You mention here a balancer cable. I read an article somewhere that was
saying all aircraft with cable controlled rudders should have a "closed

loop

system" i.e. there should be a cable connecting the two rudder pedals

(using

extra pulleys of course) in addition to the ones going to the rudder, and

no

return springs. The point he was making, if I remember correctly, was that
if a rudder cable breaks with a return spring "open loop" system the

spring

on the other side will deflect the rudder to that side and there would be
nothing the pilot could do short of trying to wedge your foot under the
pedal and fight the spring. With a closed loop, no spring system the

rudder

would simply trail in the slipstream if a cable breaks. Or it might

flutter

as you say.
The Elite builder obviously didn't complete either type of system, but it
got me thinking about that article again. I believe it was in Kitplanes or
Sport Aviation about 4 or 5 months ago.
Has anyone used a closed loop system on an Elite or Rebel?
Jesse

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Elite inspection

No rudder pedal return springs (no balancer cable in leu of either)..so

as

soon as feet come off the pedals rudder cables go slack. This is a huge,
flutter waiting to happen, problem.

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:38 pm**

No Alan...double the dihedral won't fail an inspection...just looks kinda
stupid on a high wing..... There's a reason for dihedral like that on a
Cherokee..but not a hershey bar winged high wing.

Surprised on the pulley less rudder cables Al...the usual inspectors around
here have been snagging that since 1994...as it is about a 12 degree
direction change from cabin to tailcone.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: Elite inspection

Wayne:

You're right on the return springs and dihedral. Also right that the

manual

does not mention the two pulleys. I have a modified elevator loop that

does

not use the pulley between the seats, so can't speak to that, but my

rudder

cables have no pulleys and were accepted by my Eastern Ontario inspector.

There is a requirement to use good practice when carrying out the work,
which would cover the return springs issue, but is there any requirement

to

abide by the kit manufactuer's design? Isn't the dihedral, like the gross
weight, what the manufacturer (i.e. builder) says it is? I'm not saying
it's a good idea in this case, but is it grounds for failing the

inspection?

Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:23 PM
Subject: Elite inspection

As mentioned earlier I just had an Elite flown in here late this

afternoon

for a USA to Cdn inspection prior to TC having a go at it.

Wondering if the Elite manual is complete or different than the
Rebels....or
if the California builder just ad-lib'd a few things!

Just wanting to be sure before someone else does the same things.

No rudder pedal return springs (no balancer cable in leu of either)..so

as

soon as feet come off the pedals rudder cables go slack. This is a huge,
flutter waiting to happen, problem.

2.2 degrees wing dihedreal instead of 1 degree.

Also noted no pulley on the upper elevator cable between the seats (not

in

manual I know), nor at the cabin to tailcone transition for the rudder
cables....again not in the manuals..but required to appease at least the
Ontario MD-RA inspections..don't know about TC..we'll find out in

October.

Probably a larger list tomorrow night...this was from a quick 10 minute
look
over before I closed the hangar door and called it a LONG day.

I should also be of much better help to the Elite guys once this has

been

gone thru top to bottom over the next couple days. There's other things
I've
also noted, that will need to be upgraded before we mount a set of 2200
Clamars to it in the Spring, but nothing that is necessary to get thru

the

TC inspection.

Thanks,
Wayne

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:38 pm**

Hi Wayne !

Suspect you meant 'elevator' cables - I think the angle is not
as large on the Elite, because of the different elevator setup ...
but some Rebels have passed without pulleys, too ... ;-)

The dihedral itself might not be enough to fail, Al, but it
introduces other problems - like flexing the aileron horns with
every movement !! Might trigger some concern for an inspector ...
not exactly 'best practice' ! ;-)

.......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 20 September 2005 10:58 pm, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

No Alan...double the dihedral won't fail an inspection...just looks kinda
stupid on a high wing..... There's a reason for dihedral like that on a
Cherokee..but not a hershey bar winged high wing.

Surprised on the pulley less rudder cables Al...the usual inspectors

around

here have been snagging that since 1994...as it is about a 12 degree
direction change from cabin to tailcone.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: Elite inspection

Wayne:

You're right on the return springs and dihedral. Also right that the
manual
does not mention the two pulleys. I have a modified elevator loop that
does
not use the pulley between the seats, so can't speak to that, but my
rudder
cables have no pulleys and were accepted by my Eastern Ontario

inspector.

There is a requirement to use good practice when carrying out the work,
which would cover the return springs issue, but is there any requirement
to
abide by the kit manufactuer's design? Isn't the dihedral, like the

gross

weight, what the manufacturer (i.e. builder) says it is? I'm not saying
it's a good idea in this case, but is it grounds for failing the
inspection?
Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:23 PM
Subject: Elite inspection

As mentioned earlier I just had an Elite flown in here late this
afternoon
for a USA to Cdn inspection prior to TC having a go at it.

Wondering if the Elite manual is complete or different than the
Rebels....or
if the California builder just ad-lib'd a few things!

Just wanting to be sure before someone else does the same things.

No rudder pedal return springs (no balancer cable in leu of

either)..so

as
soon as feet come off the pedals rudder cables go slack. This is a

huge,

flutter waiting to happen, problem.

2.2 degrees wing dihedreal instead of 1 degree.

Also noted no pulley on the upper elevator cable between the seats

(not

in
manual I know), nor at the cabin to tailcone transition for the rudder
cables....again not in the manuals..but required to appease at least

the

Ontario MD-RA inspections..don't know about TC..we'll find out in
October.
Probably a larger list tomorrow night...this was from a quick 10

minute

look
over before I closed the hangar door and called it a LONG day.

I should also be of much better help to the Elite guys once this has
been
gone thru top to bottom over the next couple days. There's other

things

I've
also noted, that will need to be upgraded before we mount a set of

2200

Clamars to it in the Spring, but nothing that is necessary to get thru
the
TC inspection.

Thanks,
Wayne

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:38 pm**

No I mean rudder cables. Where the transition from the square cabin to the
tailcone it's about 12 degrees change. I put pulleys on every Rebel in this
location. I know the elevator cables have a different routing to the
elevator...haven't even pulled the cone plug yet for any surprises there.
The other spot is the top elevator cable being brought down to the floor
with a guide before the seats. About 15 to 20 degree change and causes the
turnbuckle to hit the column tube when you go stick forward. Pulley needs to
go a bit further back to alleviate the fowling on the column or the other
option is a cable in the air thru the baggage area to cut the angle
change...but that's not really a sensible option.

Bob is correct on the flexing of horns..because what happens is the torque
tube comes thru the wing and if you continued at 2 degrees you'd need the
hanger to be ~ twice as low as standard...and it's not..so without pulling
the fairings I can tell you we'll find a whole lot of flexing going on where
the horns bolt together between wing and fuselage. We've both seen this
before on an airplane that was originally built in BC & recently sold out of
the Napanee area and is now residing at Air Muskoka.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: Elite inspection

Hi Wayne !

Suspect you meant 'elevator' cables - I think the angle is not
as large on the Elite, because of the different elevator setup ...
but some Rebels have passed without pulleys, too ... ;-)

The dihedral itself might not be enough to fail, Al, but it
introduces other problems - like flexing the aileron horns with
every movement !! Might trigger some concern for an inspector ...
not exactly 'best practice' ! ;-)

.......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 20 September 2005 10:58 pm, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
No Alan...double the dihedral won't fail an inspection...just looks

kinda

stupid on a high wing..... There's a reason for dihedral like that on a
Cherokee..but not a hershey bar winged high wing.

Surprised on the pulley less rudder cables Al...the usual inspectors
around
here have been snagging that since 1994...as it is about a 12 degree
direction change from cabin to tailcone.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: Elite inspection

Wayne:

You're right on the return springs and dihedral. Also right that the
manual
does not mention the two pulleys. I have a modified elevator loop

that

does
not use the pulley between the seats, so can't speak to that, but my
rudder
cables have no pulleys and were accepted by my Eastern Ontario
inspector.
There is a requirement to use good practice when carrying out the

work,

which would cover the return springs issue, but is there any

requirement

to
abide by the kit manufactuer's design? Isn't the dihedral, like the
gross
weight, what the manufacturer (i.e. builder) says it is? I'm not

saying

it's a good idea in this case, but is it grounds for failing the
inspection?
Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:23 PM
Subject: Elite inspection

afternoon
Rebels....or
either)..so
as
huge,
(not
in

rudder

the
October.
minute
look
been
things
I've
2200

thru

the

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:38 pm**

Didn't see the article but I think I mentioned once about the CH701 that
couldn't maintain altitude after a rudder pedal weld fracture and the
spring pulling the rudder hard over. The fellow got it down in a field
OK despite a "sink rate of a frozen weasel". With his adrenalin running
quite high, he then looked up to see a bull stamping his feet and making
threatening gestures at his shiny RED airplane. Apparently at that point
his 0.016 aluminum side panels seemed even flimsier than aluminum foil ;)
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

I removed one from Bob P's XWI ! Positioning of the balancer cable and
pulleys made for uneven cable tension at different pedal positions.

I read that article too Jesse and it does have merit...to a point. I can fly
a Rebel with the rudder jammed to the floor and opposite stick.
Sideways..but if flies and I could make it home or to a suitable landing
area that way. I guess the only difference a balancer cable would make is if
you took you feet off the pedals the rudder might self center......unless
it's one of Chris Heinz's wonders with a full flying rudder..they'll peg to
one side.....I along with my wife on board and kids not even knowing we were
both in the air lived thru that one!

Only make your springs tight enough to take the cable slack out when the
pedal is to the floor and released...no more tension than required. You
could also get your toe under the "floored" pedal and lift it back up to let
the rudder center. Key is...make sure you use a PROPER nico pressing tool.
Check for proper squeeze with a gauge and THREE squeezes no two as I have
found and at one time appears to have been acceptable with Cubs coming out
of Lockhaven. Make sure your turn buckles are fully engaged and all hardware
in safety. I know of one, and maybe the one in the article you are referring
to that the rudder cable came undone because it had never been safety wired
and unscrewed in-flight.

Cheers,
Wayne

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:38 pm**

Been thru the rudder pedal fractures on three 701's. One was my wife's prior
to her owning it and your story actually sounds familiar as the flight
school put it in a cow pasture at the end of 16 at CYEE when the pedal let
go. Our situation was the nose wheel bungee broke...the strut jammed in the
full up position which tips the pedals back thanks to positive steering
rods...which slackens the cables about 1.5" on both sides...which causes
some wonderful rudder flutter and then pegging to one side eventually.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: Elite inspection

Didn't see the article but I think I mentioned once about the CH701 that
couldn't maintain altitude after a rudder pedal weld fracture and the
spring pulling the rudder hard over. The fellow got it down in a field
OK despite a "sink rate of a frozen weasel". With his adrenalin running
quite high, he then looked up to see a bull stamping his feet and making
threatening gestures at his shiny RED airplane. Apparently at that point
his 0.016 aluminum side panels seemed even flimsier than aluminum foil ;)
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

I removed one from Bob P's XWI ! Positioning of the balancer cable and
pulleys made for uneven cable tension at different pedal positions.

I read that article too Jesse and it does have merit...to a point. I can

fly

a Rebel with the rudder jammed to the floor and opposite stick.
Sideways..but if flies and I could make it home or to a suitable landing
area that way. I guess the only difference a balancer cable would make is

if

you took you feet off the pedals the rudder might self center......unless
it's one of Chris Heinz's wonders with a full flying rudder..they'll peg

to

one side.....I along with my wife on board and kids not even knowing we

were

both in the air lived thru that one!

Only make your springs tight enough to take the cable slack out when the
pedal is to the floor and released...no more tension than required. You
could also get your toe under the "floored" pedal and lift it back up to

let

the rudder center. Key is...make sure you use a PROPER nico pressing

tool.

Check for proper squeeze with a gauge and THREE squeezes no two as I have
found and at one time appears to have been acceptable with Cubs coming

out

of Lockhaven. Make sure your turn buckles are fully engaged and all

hardware

in safety. I know of one, and maybe the one in the article you are

referring

to that the rudder cable came undone because it had never been safety

wired

and unscrewed in-flight.

Cheers,
Wayne

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm**

Wayne:

My "down" elevator cable passes under the control culumn and makes a 180
round a 3" pulley muonted on the firewall, then back to the lower control
column horn. Works slick, and no upper cable to get caught on anything.

BTW, test flying is at 16.5 hrs and counting.

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: Elite inspection

No I mean rudder cables. Where the transition from the square cabin to the
tailcone it's about 12 degrees change. I put pulleys on every Rebel in

this

location. I know the elevator cables have a different routing to the
elevator...haven't even pulled the cone plug yet for any surprises there.
The other spot is the top elevator cable being brought down to the floor
with a guide before the seats. About 15 to 20 degree change and causes the
turnbuckle to hit the column tube when you go stick forward. Pulley needs

to

go a bit further back to alleviate the fowling on the column or the other
option is a cable in the air thru the baggage area to cut the angle
change...but that's not really a sensible option.

Bob is correct on the flexing of horns..because what happens is the torque
tube comes thru the wing and if you continued at 2 degrees you'd need the
hanger to be ~ twice as low as standard...and it's not..so without pulling
the fairings I can tell you we'll find a whole lot of flexing going on

where

the horns bolt together between wing and fuselage. We've both seen this
before on an airplane that was originally built in BC & recently sold out

of

the Napanee area and is now residing at Air Muskoka.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: Elite inspection

Hi Wayne !

Suspect you meant 'elevator' cables - I think the angle is not
as large on the Elite, because of the different elevator setup ...
but some Rebels have passed without pulleys, too ... ;-)

The dihedral itself might not be enough to fail, Al, but it
introduces other problems - like flexing the aileron horns with
every movement !! Might trigger some concern for an inspector ...
not exactly 'best practice' ! ;-)

.......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 20 September 2005 10:58 pm, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
No Alan...double the dihedral won't fail an inspection...just looks
kinda
stupid on a high wing..... There's a reason for dihedral like that on

a

Cherokee..but not a hershey bar winged high wing.

Surprised on the pulley less rudder cables Al...the usual inspectors
around
here have been snagging that since 1994...as it is about a 12 degree
direction change from cabin to tailcone.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: Elite inspection

the

manual
that
does rudder
inspector.
work,
requirement
to
gross
saying
inspection? afternoon
either)..so
as
huge,
(not
in
rudder

least

the
October.
minute

has

been
things
2200
thru
the

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm**

Could you post a picture of your solution on Mike's web site?
It would be helpful. Thanks
Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Alan
Hepburn
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 8:26 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Elite inspection

Wayne:

My "down" elevator cable passes under the control culumn and makes a 180
round a 3" pulley muonted on the firewall, then back to the lower control
column horn. Works slick, and no upper cable to get caught on anything.

BTW, test flying is at 16.5 hrs and counting.

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: Elite inspection

No I mean rudder cables. Where the transition from the square cabin to the
tailcone it's about 12 degrees change. I put pulleys on every Rebel in

this

location. I know the elevator cables have a different routing to the
elevator...haven't even pulled the cone plug yet for any surprises there.
The other spot is the top elevator cable being brought down to the floor
with a guide before the seats. About 15 to 20 degree change and causes the
turnbuckle to hit the column tube when you go stick forward. Pulley needs

to

go a bit further back to alleviate the fowling on the column or the other
option is a cable in the air thru the baggage area to cut the angle
change...but that's not really a sensible option.

Bob is correct on the flexing of horns..because what happens is the torque
tube comes thru the wing and if you continued at 2 degrees you'd need the
hanger to be ~ twice as low as standard...and it's not..so without pulling
the fairings I can tell you we'll find a whole lot of flexing going on

where

the horns bolt together between wing and fuselage. We've both seen this
before on an airplane that was originally built in BC & recently sold out

of

the Napanee area and is now residing at Air Muskoka.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: Elite inspection

Hi Wayne !

Suspect you meant 'elevator' cables - I think the angle is not
as large on the Elite, because of the different elevator setup ...
but some Rebels have passed without pulleys, too ... ;-)

The dihedral itself might not be enough to fail, Al, but it
introduces other problems - like flexing the aileron horns with
every movement !! Might trigger some concern for an inspector ...
not exactly 'best practice' ! ;-)

.......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 20 September 2005 10:58 pm, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
No Alan...double the dihedral won't fail an inspection...just looks
kinda
stupid on a high wing..... There's a reason for dihedral like that on

a

Cherokee..but not a hershey bar winged high wing.

Surprised on the pulley less rudder cables Al...the usual inspectors
around
here have been snagging that since 1994...as it is about a 12 degree
direction change from cabin to tailcone.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: Elite inspection

the

manual
that
does rudder
inspector.
work,
requirement
to
gross
saying
inspection? afternoon
either)..so
as
huge,
(not
in
rudder

least

the
October.
minute

has

been
things
2200
thru
the

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