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Crosswind float take-off

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:47 am
by Walter Klatt
Had an interesting take-off from my bay at Harrison Lake today.
Because the winds were real strong today, I took off from the
back corner of my bay to avoid the big swells which meant I have
to turn to the right as I take off to go into the main wind and
the open water. I have done this many times with nothing unusual,
but today, the wind tried to get me, and I think I learned
something.

This is what happened. I always use full flaperons down for
take-off which helps me get airborne real early and avoid any
serious pounding and splashing during the take-off run. Works
really well, usually. Today, I got off extra fast because of the
strong wind (probably about 7 or 8 seconds), and was barely
flying when the wind caught my right wing as I started my turn,
and it took full right aileron (yup, tight against the stop) to
keep it from lifting up. Meanwhile, it was also trying to yaw me
to the left, and it took a lot of right rudder to keep that from
happening, too. All this was going on while I was only a few feet
off the water. Finally, it got enough speed, and almost instantly
then it hard banked to the right, and I had full flying control
of it again. The part that surprised me, is how it was not
responding to my full right aileron there for a while.

I think what happened is that with full flaperons down and full
right aileron, I was getting a lot of adverse yaw on my left wing
because of the extreme down deflection and low airspeed, and
perhaps it was even stalling a bit. Then as soon as it got enough
flying speed it quickly became effective, and I was able to bank
it to the right which is where I was trying to go. All this
happened in a couple of seconds, and it made me wonder if the
outcome would have been different if I didn't have the 0320
engine, which can usually power you out of any trouble.

So in future, I think I will only use half flaps when the wind is
that strong. Anyway, that's my theory of what happened, and my
proposed remedy.

And for those that might not know my plane, this was with my 150
hp 0320 Rebel on 1800 amphibs. It's a great floatplane, but I
guess there are still a few things I need to learn about it.

Walter




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Crosswind float take-off

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:47 am
by Al Paxhia
Hi Walter,
With full flaps I have found similar control issues in strong or gusty
winds. In no wind calm water with full flaps there is not enough aileron
authority in to lift a wing to unstick the float. IMHO half flaps works best
for most Moose water takeoffs. There are rare times when I use a quick pull
to full flaps and pop the airplane into ground effect but ease back out to
half flaps for climb out.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: "Rebel-Builders" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 9:27 PM
Subject: Crosswind float take-off

Had an interesting take-off from my bay at Harrison Lake today.
Because the winds were real strong today, I took off from the
back corner of my bay to avoid the big swells which meant I have
to turn to the right as I take off to go into the main wind and
the open water. I have done this many times with nothing unusual,
but today, the wind tried to get me, and I think I learned
something.

This is what happened. I always use full flaperons down for
take-off which helps me get airborne real early and avoid any
serious pounding and splashing during the take-off run. Works
really well, usually. Today, I got off extra fast because of the
strong wind (probably about 7 or 8 seconds), and was barely
flying when the wind caught my right wing as I started my turn,
and it took full right aileron (yup, tight against the stop) to
keep it from lifting up. Meanwhile, it was also trying to yaw me
to the left, and it took a lot of right rudder to keep that from
happening, too. All this was going on while I was only a few feet
off the water. Finally, it got enough speed, and almost instantly
then it hard banked to the right, and I had full flying control
of it again. The part that surprised me, is how it was not
responding to my full right aileron there for a while.

I think what happened is that with full flaperons down and full
right aileron, I was getting a lot of adverse yaw on my left wing
because of the extreme down deflection and low airspeed, and
perhaps it was even stalling a bit. Then as soon as it got enough
flying speed it quickly became effective, and I was able to bank
it to the right which is where I was trying to go. All this
happened in a couple of seconds, and it made me wonder if the
outcome would have been different if I didn't have the 0320
engine, which can usually power you out of any trouble.

So in future, I think I will only use half flaps when the wind is
that strong. Anyway, that's my theory of what happened, and my
proposed remedy.

And for those that might not know my plane, this was with my 150
hp 0320 Rebel on 1800 amphibs. It's a great floatplane, but I
guess there are still a few things I need to learn about it.

Walter




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Crosswind float take-off

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:47 am
by Bruce Georgen
I know that using flaps for landing wheel planes in gusty winds is a no-no, for that same reason you described, Walter. I think your assessment is very accurate. Glad you were able to pull out of it. probably gave you a few gray hairs, though.

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
From: Al Paxhia <paxhia2@comcast.net>
Sent: Jul 21, 2005 1:02 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Crosswind float take-off

Hi Walter,
With full flaps I have found similar control issues in strong or gusty
winds. In no wind calm water with full flaps there is not enough aileron
authority in to lift a wing to unstick the float. IMHO half flaps works best
for most Moose water takeoffs. There are rare times when I use a quick pull
to full flaps and pop the airplane into ground effect but ease back out to
half flaps for climb out.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: "Rebel-Builders" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 9:27 PM
Subject: Crosswind float take-off

Had an interesting take-off from my bay at Harrison Lake today.
Because the winds were real strong today, I took off from the
back corner of my bay to avoid the big swells which meant I have
to turn to the right as I take off to go into the main wind and
the open water. I have done this many times with nothing unusual,
but today, the wind tried to get me, and I think I learned
something.

This is what happened. I always use full flaperons down for
take-off which helps me get airborne real early and avoid any
serious pounding and splashing during the take-off run. Works
really well, usually. Today, I got off extra fast because of the
strong wind (probably about 7 or 8 seconds), and was barely
flying when the wind caught my right wing as I started my turn,
and it took full right aileron (yup, tight against the stop) to
keep it from lifting up. Meanwhile, it was also trying to yaw me
to the left, and it took a lot of right rudder to keep that from
happening, too. All this was going on while I was only a few feet
off the water. Finally, it got enough speed, and almost instantly
then it hard banked to the right, and I had full flying control
of it again. The part that surprised me, is how it was not
responding to my full right aileron there for a while.

I think what happened is that with full flaperons down and full
right aileron, I was getting a lot of adverse yaw on my left wing
because of the extreme down deflection and low airspeed, and
perhaps it was even stalling a bit. Then as soon as it got enough
flying speed it quickly became effective, and I was able to bank
it to the right which is where I was trying to go. All this
happened in a couple of seconds, and it made me wonder if the
outcome would have been different if I didn't have the 0320
engine, which can usually power you out of any trouble.

So in future, I think I will only use half flaps when the wind is
that strong. Anyway, that's my theory of what happened, and my
proposed remedy.

And for those that might not know my plane, this was with my 150
hp 0320 Rebel on 1800 amphibs. It's a great floatplane, but I
guess there are still a few things I need to learn about it.

Walter




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