The Murphy Builders Site

I've had the pleasure of meeting Ted Waltman and his family while he is in
Fairbanks on his tour of Alaska. I haven't stopped drooling yet after
seeing and flying his plane. Unfortunately, he called me today after
visiting other parts of Alaska to say he was back in town with a dead left
mag. We're going to check it out tonight after I get off work or perhaps
tomorrow when I'm off. In case it looks like the mag itself is the problem,
if anyone has a lead on a replacement mag that can be overnighted Ted may
need one.

Mike




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I just spoke with Ted. He is back in Fairbanks with Mike working on his
left magneto a second time.

Mike may fill us in once they get Ted on his way again.

I suspect other M14 guys or potential M14 would like to know it turns out it
was not a bad magneto. First problem found was the P lead as it goes into
the back bottom of the mag. Ted said it looked like a bad solder job on the
lead inside the mag and it was grounding out. They fixed that and he was on
his way.

Then it acted up again. They traced it to the #6 cylinder dead on the left
mag. Changed plugs still dead. Checked the lead with a tester, it was
dead. Open up the top of the left mag and you could see the boost coil lead
and the #6 ignition lead had chafed and were arcing together.

So now they are attempting to put a shielded auto wire in, which is not easy
as they are larger diameter.

Hopefully Mike will fill us in later??

FWIW
Scott
Moose 174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 4:36 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Dead M14 mag


I've had the pleasure of meeting Ted Waltman and his family while he is in
Fairbanks on his tour of Alaska. I haven't stopped drooling yet after
seeing and flying his plane. Unfortunately, he called me today after
visiting other parts of Alaska to say he was back in town with a dead left
mag. We're going to check it out tonight after I get off work or perhaps
tomorrow when I'm off. In case it looks like the mag itself is the problem,
if anyone has a lead on a replacement mag that can be overnighted Ted may
need one.

Mike




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We have 5 mm ignition wire if needed.

George Coy
President
Gesoco Industries Inc.
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
TEL 802-868-5633
FAX 802-868-4465
Web Site www.gesoco.com
e-mail George@gesoco.com
Franklin County Airport (KFSO)

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Scott Aldrich
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 3:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Dead M14 mag


I just spoke with Ted. He is back in Fairbanks with Mike working on his
left magneto a second time.

Mike may fill us in once they get Ted on his way again.

I suspect other M14 guys or potential M14 would like to know it turns out it
was not a bad magneto. First problem found was the P lead as it goes into
the back bottom of the mag. Ted said it looked like a bad solder job on the
lead inside the mag and it was grounding out. They fixed that and he was on
his way.

Then it acted up again. They traced it to the #6 cylinder dead on the left
mag. Changed plugs still dead. Checked the lead with a tester, it was
dead. Open up the top of the left mag and you could see the boost coil lead
and the #6 ignition lead had chafed and were arcing together.

So now they are attempting to put a shielded auto wire in, which is not easy
as they are larger diameter.

Hopefully Mike will fill us in later??

FWIW
Scott
Moose 174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 4:36 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Dead M14 mag


I've had the pleasure of meeting Ted Waltman and his family while he is in
Fairbanks on his tour of Alaska. I haven't stopped drooling yet after
seeing and flying his plane. Unfortunately, he called me today after
visiting other parts of Alaska to say he was back in town with a dead left
mag. We're going to check it out tonight after I get off work or perhaps
tomorrow when I'm off. In case it looks like the mag itself is the problem,
if anyone has a lead on a replacement mag that can be overnighted Ted may
need one.

Mike




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It was a pain, but we got it fixed. The repair of the P-lead was a piece of cake. We simply ran a piece of 16 gauge aircraft wire through some tinned copper shielding I had laying around the shop and hooked it up to the original connector attached to the mag. Ted's got a much better P-lead now than the original. The P-lead wire, spark plug wires, and the booster coil wire all use what I would call very poor quality wire with a very soft insulation that is easily damaged by chafing or heat. An accidental touch with even the dullest knife would just go right through it like it wasn't there. Aircraft wire is much more resilient. We took a look at how the spark plug wires are routed. They exit the mag via an all metal flexible conduit with a braided shield around the conduit. They then enter a metal ring. Then each wire exits the ring through a rubber conduit that eventually leads to the spark plugs. At first we thought we might use the old #6 wire to pull a new wire t
hrough. But after seeing how tight the wires were in the conduit by the mag, and the path it would have to follow through the ring we quickly realized there was no way. Especially with the soft, easily damaged insulation. In fact, I take my hat off to the guy that got those wires in there to begin with. It's a miracle. So we decided to route the spark plug wire separately. The only problem was entry of the wire into the mag housing. We decided to remove the rubber grommet where the booster coil wire enters the housing and pass both the booster coil wire and the spark plug wire in through there. This meant that the nice neat metal fitting for the booster coil wire would be discarded. It also meant that the shielding for that mag would be compromised at that point. There was some worry about radio noise. We found some old, damaged, 7mm standard aircraft spark plug wires at a local FBO. Rummaging through them we were able to find two undamaged sections that we could
use to fabricate new wires. Shielding was built in to the wires. Ted talked to somebody he knows about a conversion to automotive spark plugs and we ended up putting an automotive spark plug in on #6. We attached a standard automotive spark plug boot to one end of the aircraft spark plug wire. The other end just needed the outer insulation and shield stripped back to be inserted in the mag cap where it would be pierced by the attachment screw normally. The inner insulation and wire looked just like the standard M14 5mm wire. The booster coil wire was a bit more of a stuggle. I was going to use the original fitting for the coil by soldering it to the center conductor of the spark plug wire. Whatever those wires are made of, they will not solder. We thought maybe we needed more heat, so poor Ted bought a bigger soldering gun only to discover that didn't help. Somebody tell me why solder won't stick to those wires?? A talk with a local mechanic gave us a new plan. Th
ey had a standard spark plug wire fitting that didn't need any soldering. It looks like about a 1 inch metal tube with a spring on one end. But it was too short. However, if we used a second fitting, cutting the spring off, as a spacer, it would be just right. So we decided to try that. The mechanic rang up the bill for those two stupid fittings. $54!!! What??!! We had no choice. And it worked great. After inserting the coil and spark plug wire through the hole where normally just the coil wire goes and buttoning everything up it was time to test it. Long story short, we had a very nice flight to Manley Hot Springs for some $100 fries and a coke. The radio was fine despite the shield compromise. Ted's back on schedule as far as I know. I can't wait to hear from him again to see how it's going. By the way, Ted plans to convert the entire system to automotive plugs at his earliest opportunity. And after flying around with Ted while he was here, I'm going to lock
myself in my shop until I get mine finished! What a great plane!

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Aldrich <sa@mwutah.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 12:24 pm
Subject: RE: Dead M14 mag

I just spoke with Ted. He is back in Fairbanks with Mike working
on his
left magneto a second time.

Mike may fill us in once they get Ted on his way again.

I suspect other M14 guys or potential M14 would like to know it
turns out it
was not a bad magneto. First problem found was the P lead as it
goes into
the back bottom of the mag. Ted said it looked like a bad solder
job on the
lead inside the mag and it was grounding out. They fixed that and
he was on
his way.

Then it acted up again. They traced it to the #6 cylinder dead on
the left
mag. Changed plugs still dead. Checked the lead with a tester,
it was
dead. Open up the top of the left mag and you could see the boost
coil lead
and the #6 ignition lead had chafed and were arcing together.

So now they are attempting to put a shielded auto wire in, which
is not easy
as they are larger diameter.

Hopefully Mike will fill us in later??

FWIW
Scott
Moose 174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 4:36 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Dead M14 mag


I've had the pleasure of meeting Ted Waltman and his family while
he is in
Fairbanks on his tour of Alaska. I haven't stopped drooling yet after
seeing and flying his plane. Unfortunately, he called me today after
visiting other parts of Alaska to say he was back in town with a
dead left
mag. We're going to check it out tonight after I get off work or
perhapstomorrow when I'm off. In case it looks like the mag
itself is the problem,
if anyone has a lead on a replacement mag that can be overnighted
Ted may
need one.

Mike




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Mike

Ref: your soldering problems, try Liquid Rosin Flux by
MG Chemicals. They are located in Toronto , 1-800-201
8822 and at www.mgchemicals.com. I picked some up at
a local radio/electronics repair shop (not Radio
Shack). This is potent stuff and just a little on the
joint prior to soldering prevents much aggravation and
IMHO produces a nice even flowing bond using my
inexpensive dual heat range soldering iron from Radio
Shack.

Doug

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As Doug indicates it is the flux that cleans the metal enough to let the
solder wet the metal. If the wire is not pretinned as most of our wire
is, then the flux becomes very important. The newer solder fluxes work
much better than my older rosin core solders and will even let you
solder thermocouple wire! I think I have a roll of Kester 44 that is
pretty good on problem joints. If you can get the joint hot enough to
melt the solder, then the rest is up to the flux.
Ken






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Gentelmen, Ignition wire is plated steel wire. You need to use an acid flux
not a rosin flux to solder to it. The acid flux is usually sold as "Tinners
Fluid" or Tinners Flux".

George Coy
President
Gesoco Industries Inc.
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
TEL 802-868-5633
FAX 802-868-4465
Web Site www.gesoco.com
e-mail George@gesoco.com
Franklin County Airport (KFSO)

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
sedanman88
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 8:43 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: RE: Dead M14 mag


Mike

Ref: your soldering problems, try Liquid Rosin Flux by
MG Chemicals. They are located in Toronto , 1-800-201
8822 and at www.mgchemicals.com. I picked some up at
a local radio/electronics repair shop (not Radio
Shack). This is potent stuff and just a little on the
joint prior to soldering prevents much aggravation and
IMHO produces a nice even flowing bond using my
inexpensive dual heat range soldering iron from Radio
Shack.

Doug

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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You learn something new every day. Thanks George.

Mike


-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of George
Coy
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 4:23 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: RE: Dead M14 mag

Gentelmen, Ignition wire is plated steel wire. You need to use an acid flux
not a rosin flux to solder to it. The acid flux is usually sold as "Tinners
Fluid" or Tinners Flux".

George Coy
President
Gesoco Industries Inc.
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
TEL 802-868-5633
FAX 802-868-4465
Web Site www.gesoco.com
e-mail George@gesoco.com
Franklin County Airport (KFSO)

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
sedanman88
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 8:43 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: RE: Dead M14 mag


Mike

Ref: your soldering problems, try Liquid Rosin Flux by
MG Chemicals. They are located in Toronto , 1-800-201
8822 and at www.mgchemicals.com. I picked some up at
a local radio/electronics repair shop (not Radio
Shack). This is potent stuff and just a little on the
joint prior to soldering prevents much aggravation and
IMHO produces a nice even flowing bond using my
inexpensive dual heat range soldering iron from Radio
Shack.

Doug

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com



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