The Murphy Builders Site

The span wise stringer pre-punched holes in my wing skins don't have a
symmetrical spacing pattern. For example; the top skins have a 1" spacing
until 51" from one end, which continues until 42" from the other end where
it goes to 1 1/4" spacing. I don't find any help in the manual as to which
end is the root and which is the tip. The bottom skins have an asymmetry as
well.
I'm confused.
Jesse.
PS I have extended tank skins which seem to align better with the end that's
spaced at 1 1/4" with respect to how the end of the tank skin lines up with
the last stringer rivets that would hit it.





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Jesse The close spacing goes at the root end of each wing.

At 06:46 PM 6/21/2005 -0700, you wrote:

The span wise stringer pre-punched holes in my wing skins don't have a
symmetrical spacing pattern. For example; the top skins have a 1" spacing
until 51" from one end, which continues until 42" from the other end where
it goes to 1 1/4" spacing. I don't find any help in the manual as to which
end is the root and which is the tip. The bottom skins have an asymmetry as
well.
I'm confused.
Jesse.
PS I have extended tank skins which seem to align better with the end that's
spaced at 1 1/4" with respect to how the end of the tank skin lines up with
the last stringer rivets that would hit it.





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Drew





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks Drew,
I left out a detail, which is that the middle section of the skins are
spaced at 3/4". So they go from 1" to 3/4" to 1 1/4". So I should put the
end that is 1" spaced on the root end? This does mostly make sense to me,
except that it puts the 3/4" spaced middle section farther outboard (51" as
opposed to 42"). I don't understand why the spacing goes from wide to narrow
to wider. I guess it must be because the bending moment of the wing is
reversed inboard of the strut attachment point so the upper skin is under
tension in that area. So what about the bottom skins then? They have 1 1/4"
spacing on both ends with a shorter area of 1" near the middle, but not
centered in the middle. I assume the more densely spaced area should be
biased toward the inboard? That would center it just about on the strut
attach point. The spacing difference on the bottom skin is subtle enough
that it would be easy to miss. I am surprised the manual doesn't mention
it.....well not really!
Thanks again.
Jesse

From: Drew Dalgleish <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Rebel wing skin orientation
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 00:16:17 -0400

Hi Jesse The close spacing goes at the root end of each wing.

At 06:46 PM 6/21/2005 -0700, you wrote:

The span wise stringer pre-punched holes in my wing skins don't have a
symmetrical spacing pattern. For example; the top skins have a 1" spacing
until 51" from one end, which continues until 42" from the other end

where

it goes to 1 1/4" spacing. I don't find any help in the manual as to

which

end is the root and which is the tip. The bottom skins have an asymmetry

as

well.
I'm confused.
Jesse.
PS I have extended tank skins which seem to align better with the end

that's

spaced at 1 1/4" with respect to how the end of the tank skin lines up

with

the last stringer rivets that would hit it.





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Drew





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Jesse I centred the close spaced holes on the bottom skin so they landed
near the strut attach point. It seems to me that would be the highest
stressed area hence the extra rivets. You'll find it even more pronounced
on the nose skin. Lots of extra rivets at the root and hardly any out at
the tip.

At 10:15 PM 6/21/2005 -0700, you wrote:

Thanks Drew,
I left out a detail, which is that the middle section of the skins are
spaced at 3/4". So they go from 1" to 3/4" to 1 1/4". So I should put the
end that is 1" spaced on the root end? This does mostly make sense to me,
except that it puts the 3/4" spaced middle section farther outboard (51" as
opposed to 42"). I don't understand why the spacing goes from wide to narrow
to wider. I guess it must be because the bending moment of the wing is
reversed inboard of the strut attachment point so the upper skin is under
tension in that area. So what about the bottom skins then? They have 1 1/4"
spacing on both ends with a shorter area of 1" near the middle, but not
centered in the middle. I assume the more densely spaced area should be
biased toward the inboard? That would center it just about on the strut
attach point. The spacing difference on the bottom skin is subtle enough
that it would be easy to miss. I am surprised the manual doesn't mention
it.....well not really!
Thanks again.
Jesse

From: Drew Dalgleish <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Rebel wing skin orientation
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 00:16:17 -0400

Hi Jesse The close spacing goes at the root end of each wing.

At 06:46 PM 6/21/2005 -0700, you wrote:

The span wise stringer pre-punched holes in my wing skins don't have a
symmetrical spacing pattern. For example; the top skins have a 1" spacing
until 51" from one end, which continues until 42" from the other end

where

it goes to 1 1/4" spacing. I don't find any help in the manual as to

which

end is the root and which is the tip. The bottom skins have an asymmetry

as

well.
I'm confused.
Jesse.
PS I have extended tank skins which seem to align better with the end

that's

spaced at 1 1/4" with respect to how the end of the tank skin lines up

with

the last stringer rivets that would hit it.





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Drew





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Drew





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Don't guess. Don't rationalize. There is an old bulletin with diagrams
and I'm sure the newer manual on CD also has the diagrams. It is easy to
make an expensive mistake here and several people have. Even after
identifying them guys have put the stringers on the wrong side and made
two right wings. Sooo.... Identify all of them and then write on them
which side is internal and which side is external and what the
orientation is. If you can't find the diagrams I'll see if I can post
them but really this is basic basic manual stuff and absolutely should
be available. If the diagrams are not clear to you then by all means ask
-but get the diagrams!
Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:

Thanks Drew,
I left out a detail, which is that the middle section of the skins are
spaced at 3/4". So they go from 1" to 3/4" to 1 1/4". So I should put the
end that is 1" spaced on the root end? This does mostly make sense to me,
except that it puts the 3/4" spaced middle section farther outboard (51" as
opposed to 42"). I don't understand why the spacing goes from wide to narrow
to wider. I guess it must be because the bending moment of the wing is
reversed inboard of the strut attachment point so the upper skin is under
tension in that area. So what about the bottom skins then? They have 1 1/4"
spacing on both ends with a shorter area of 1" near the middle, but not
centered in the middle. I assume the more densely spaced area should be
biased toward the inboard? That would center it just about on the strut
attach point. The spacing difference on the bottom skin is subtle enough
that it would be easy to miss. I am surprised the manual doesn't mention
it.....well not really!
Thanks again.
Jesse

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Jesse...pay no attention to the stringer holes nor there
orientation/distance apart. Count the number of holes for the ribs between
each stringer set.... at each end of the wing skin. Find the end that has
the most number of holes between the same two stringer locations. This is
the root end, the other is the tip. Leading edge is obvious by the numerous
holes at the root end for the front spar.

Pretty sure I cut your extended tank skins with the extra ~2" to do the
"outside the tank" to wing skin overlap. If it was only big enough for the
old way the skin would only be 4 bays x 11 15/16" + 1/2". Pretty sure I made
them around 50". So should be easy to check.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 9:46 PM
Subject: Rebel wing skin orientation

The span wise stringer pre-punched holes in my wing skins don't have a
symmetrical spacing pattern. For example; the top skins have a 1" spacing
until 51" from one end, which continues until 42" from the other end where
it goes to 1 1/4" spacing. I don't find any help in the manual as to which
end is the root and which is the tip. The bottom skins have an asymmetry

as

well.
I'm confused.
Jesse.
PS I have extended tank skins which seem to align better with the end

that's

spaced at 1 1/4" with respect to how the end of the tank skin lines up

with

the last stringer rivets that would hit it.





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks Wayne,
Looking at the ribs' rivet hole spacing makes it easy to see which end is
the root. As for the tank skins, they are about 50 1/2" long. With the 1/2"
overhang on the root end I get about 1 1/2" overlap beyond the last tank rib
holes on the main skin. I am ready to match drill the tank skins. Should I
wait to layout and drill the double rows of holes on the outboard and aft
edges? Is the spacing between the rows critical, or do you just split the
difference of what you have overhanging? My manual only shows 2 rows along
the aft edge, and they are outside the trim line for the main skin. It seems
like they forgot to include the rivet line that hits the tank bulkheads,
which should be inside the trim line right? Otherwise the bulkheads would be
riveted to the tank skin and main skin, and the main skin would not
removable for leak fixing. I see that the bulkheads are back drilled into
the skins, so obviously those holes come later. I am just trying to
visualize how the whole thing fits together. The manual really doesn't
explain how to do the "tanks first" method, but just infers it. I guess I'm
kind of slow though. Sorry for asking so many questions.
Jesse

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Rebel wing skin orientation
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:43:04 -0400

Jesse...pay no attention to the stringer holes nor there
orientation/distance apart. Count the number of holes for the ribs between
each stringer set.... at each end of the wing skin. Find the end that has
the most number of holes between the same two stringer locations. This is
the root end, the other is the tip. Leading edge is obvious by the numerous
holes at the root end for the front spar.

Pretty sure I cut your extended tank skins with the extra ~2" to do the
"outside the tank" to wing skin overlap. If it was only big enough for the
old way the skin would only be 4 bays x 11 15/16" + 1/2". Pretty sure I
made
them around 50". So should be easy to check.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 9:46 PM
Subject: Rebel wing skin orientation

The span wise stringer pre-punched holes in my wing skins don't have a
symmetrical spacing pattern. For example; the top skins have a 1"

spacing

until 51" from one end, which continues until 42" from the other end

where

it goes to 1 1/4" spacing. I don't find any help in the manual as to

which

end is the root and which is the tip. The bottom skins have an asymmetry

as

well.
I'm confused.
Jesse.
PS I have extended tank skins which seem to align better with the end

that's

spaced at 1 1/4" with respect to how the end of the tank skin lines up

with

the last stringer rivets that would hit it.





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------