The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:31 am**

I drilled and reamed the strut attach fittings to the spar of my right wing
today, but I'm not happy with the fit of the bolts. They drop into the holes
without a push and couple have some side to side play Should I be worried
about this? I will look for a smaller reamer (mine is .249), but now I have
these 4 loose holes. I remember reading about oversize bolts. Do they go a
few thou bigger? If so, that would make for a tight fit. Or I could use 5/16
bolts I guess?
My 3/16 reamer makes for a closer fit with the 3/16 bolts. This is the first
time I've used the 1/4, and it happens to be a rather critical area
unfortunately.
Thanks
Jesse

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:31 am**

Yes AN174- close tolerance are under a dollar from Aircraft Spruce. Or
even just try another bolt from a different source as they do vary by a
thou or two. Since you already used an undersize reamer it could be that
you just happen to have some small diameter bolts.
Ken

Al Paxhia wrote:

A thought is to check out using close tolerance bolts. They are not
inexpensive but may be the simplest solution. If you can go up one size it
is also easy to have a tool shop grind an undersize reamer, to fit your
bolts. A custom reamers cost about $40, this is what I have done.
Al
Moose, N526AP

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:31 am**

Just talked to Gil Tessier this afternoon and someone here in the Edmonton
area recently ran into the same thing. Used a reamer and one of the four
attachment bolt holes was loose. Discovered a discrepency in the an bolts.

Steve W.

From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Bolt fit
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 17:07:19 -0400

Yes AN174- close tolerance are under a dollar from Aircraft Spruce. Or
even just try another bolt from a different source as they do vary by a
thou or two. Since you already used an undersize reamer it could be that
you just happen to have some small diameter bolts.
Ken

Al Paxhia wrote:

A thought is to check out using close tolerance bolts. They are not
inexpensive but may be the simplest solution. If you can go up one size
it
is also easy to have a tool shop grind an undersize reamer, to fit your
bolts. A custom reamers cost about $40, this is what I have done.
Al
Moose, N526AP

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:31 am**

Thanks for the replies guys,
I think for the other wing I will find a way to use the drill press,
probably put it on the floor and block up the spar. I do have a drill bar
with bushings, but didn't think it would be good to run the reamer through
it. I didn't think about pulling it through from the back. Will they cut
like that? Anyway, for now I need to figure out how to solve my existing
problem.
I am looking at AN-174 in a reference book from Genuine Aircraft Hardware
Co. They show the max diameter as .2492, & min Dia .2487. That's not
oversized, but slightly undersized. I put the micrometer on a few of my
bolts, they are all about .2475 ish, so I don't think the close tolerance
bolts would do the trick if they are only say 1.5 thou bigger. I guess it's
worth a try though. Also it seems like they only come in the drilled shank,
or drilled head and shank variety? I guess that's OK though? I will send an
email to MAM about going to 5/16 bolts, but the last question took Robin a
month to respond to.
Just my way of saying that you guys on this list are really a great asset!
Thanks again.
Jesse

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:31 am**

Drilled shank or head should not make any difference especially since
these are loaded in shear.
These bolts should ideally be snug but I'm sure many aircraft were not
even reamed and most were drilled and/or reamed by hand with no guide so
perhaps one doesn't need to be overly critical??

I've never heard of pulling a reamer through backwards. The front has a
slight taper (maybe 5 thou or so) specifically to start into the hole.
If one wants to use a block why not use it on the front side? A drill
press definately works nicely if available.

Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:

Thanks for the replies guys,
I think for the other wing I will find a way to use the drill press,
probably put it on the floor and block up the spar. I do have a drill bar
with bushings, but didn't think it would be good to run the reamer through
it. I didn't think about pulling it through from the back. Will they cut
like that? Anyway, for now I need to figure out how to solve my existing
problem.
I am looking at AN-174 in a reference book from Genuine Aircraft Hardware
Co. They show the max diameter as .2492, & min Dia .2487. That's not
oversized, but slightly undersized. I put the micrometer on a few of my
bolts, they are all about .2475 ish, so I don't think the close tolerance
bolts would do the trick if they are only say 1.5 thou bigger. I guess it's
worth a try though. Also it seems like they only come in the drilled shank,
or drilled head and shank variety? I guess that's OK though? I will send an
email to MAM about going to 5/16 bolts, but the last question took Robin a
month to respond to.
Just my way of saying that you guys on this list are really a great asset!
Thanks again.
Jesse

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:31 am**

Is a block guide something you just make, i.e. a block with the right size
hole in it from a drill press? Sounds like a good way to go to ensure the
reamer or drill starts in perpendular to a surface. But I would think for
thicker parts you'd want to let the reamer follow the hole instead of the
block guide. Isn't this a case where just being sure to move up to final
size in steps should do the trick -- that being with reamer for the final
step and measuring bolt and reamed size on scrap beforehand?
-Ben
PS: Good luck with it Jesse -- sounds like a frustrating experience.

Hi Jesse
Did the same thing with my Christavia and ordered the oversized bolts at
about $25. us each. I can get the old paperwork out if you like. I believe
they are .010" oversized which will probably have you finding an adjustable
reamer and bring the holes up to the bolt size. Murphy shud be able to

give

you their blessing to go the next size up. To bad there wasn't any metric

an

bolts available. You'd probably find one a little bit larger than the

1/4 "

at a fraction of the price. I used a block guide on all other fittings

where

I could fit one to ensure alignment.. I believe the safest way to drill
these fittings is to mount a block guide on one side and pull the reamer
thru from the opposite side. You have to use a chucking reamer. That way
you can keep the shaft of the reamer centered in the block hole as you pull
it thru. Ensure you have a quality reamer and measure the hole it makes
before use. There are alot of what are called hole cleaners out there and
are passed on for reamers.

Steve W.
Rebel #637

From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Bolt fit
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:21:59 -0700

I drilled and reamed the strut attach fittings to the spar of my right wing
today, but I'm not happy with the fit of the bolts. They drop into the
holes
without a push and couple have some side to side play Should I be worried
about this? I will look for a smaller reamer (mine is .249), but now I have
these 4 loose holes. I remember reading about oversize bolts. Do they go a
few thou bigger? If so, that would make for a tight fit. Or I could use
5/16
bolts I guess?
My 3/16 reamer makes for a closer fit with the 3/16 bolts. This is the
first
time I've used the 1/4, and it happens to be a rather critical area
unfortunately.
Thanks
Jesse

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:31 am**

Hi Jesse
Did the same thing with my Christavia and ordered the oversized bolts at
about $25. us each. I can get the old paperwork out if you like. I believe
they are .010" oversized which will probably have you finding an adjustable
reamer and bring the holes up to the bolt size. Murphy shud be able to give
you their blessing to go the next size up. To bad there wasn't any metric an
bolts available. You'd probably find one a little bit larger than the 1/4 "
at a fraction of the price. I used a block guide on all other fittings where
I could fit one to ensure alignment.. I believe the safest way to drill
these fittings is to mount a block guide on one side and pull the reamer
thru from the opposite side. You have to use a chucking reamer. That way
you can keep the shaft of the reamer centered in the block hole as you pull
it thru. Ensure you have a quality reamer and measure the hole it makes
before use. There are alot of what are called hole cleaners out there and
are passed on for reamers.

Steve W.
Rebel #637

From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Bolt fit
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:21:59 -0700

I drilled and reamed the strut attach fittings to the spar of my right wing
today, but I'm not happy with the fit of the bolts. They drop into the
holes
without a push and couple have some side to side play Should I be worried
about this? I will look for a smaller reamer (mine is .249), but now I have
these 4 loose holes. I remember reading about oversize bolts. Do they go a
few thou bigger? If so, that would make for a tight fit. Or I could use
5/16
bolts I guess?
My 3/16 reamer makes for a closer fit with the 3/16 bolts. This is the
first
time I've used the 1/4, and it happens to be a rather critical area
unfortunately.
Thanks
Jesse

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:31 am**

A thought is to check out using close tolerance bolts. They are not
inexpensive but may be the simplest solution. If you can go up one size it
is also easy to have a tool shop grind an undersize reamer, to fit your
bolts. A custom reamers cost about $40, this is what I have done.
Al
Moose, N526AP
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:52 AM
Subject: RE: Bolt fit

Hi Jesse
Did the same thing with my Christavia and ordered the oversized bolts at
about $25. us each. I can get the old paperwork out if you like. I believe
they are .010" oversized which will probably have you finding an
adjustable
reamer and bring the holes up to the bolt size. Murphy shud be able to
give
you their blessing to go the next size up. To bad there wasn't any metric
an
bolts available. You'd probably find one a little bit larger than the 1/4
"
at a fraction of the price. I used a block guide on all other fittings
where
I could fit one to ensure alignment.. I believe the safest way to drill
these fittings is to mount a block guide on one side and pull the reamer
thru from the opposite side. You have to use a chucking reamer. That way
you can keep the shaft of the reamer centered in the block hole as you
pull
it thru. Ensure you have a quality reamer and measure the hole it makes
before use. There are alot of what are called hole cleaners out there and
are passed on for reamers.

Steve W.
Rebel #637

From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Bolt fit
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:21:59 -0700

I drilled and reamed the strut attach fittings to the spar of my right
wing
today, but I'm not happy with the fit of the bolts. They drop into the
holes
without a push and couple have some side to side play Should I be worried
about this? I will look for a smaller reamer (mine is .249), but now I
have
these 4 loose holes. I remember reading about oversize bolts. Do they go a
few thou bigger? If so, that would make for a tight fit. Or I could use
5/16
bolts I guess?
My 3/16 reamer makes for a closer fit with the 3/16 bolts. This is the
first
time I've used the 1/4, and it happens to be a rather critical area
unfortunately.
Thanks
Jesse

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:31 am**

I heard quite a bit about using reamers to drill critical holes. On my
Rebel I never used a reamer; all holes were drilled with drill bits. On
critical holes like the struts etc. I always use new or virtually new
bits that were still in excellent shape. I always step drilled the
holes and used a drill press. My bolts always fit well. If I had the
odd one that was tight I would try another bolt or just drill again and
let the bit just run in the hole and it would always take off just that
extra. On bolts like the struts I also always put the bolts in wet. I
saw no reason to dismantle the strut sections.

Thank you,

Del Schmucker
Information Systems Manager
Keewatin-Patricia District School Board
807-223-1254
807-221-8769 Cell
807-223-4703 Fax
del.schmucker@kpdsb.on.ca
www.kpdsb.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
bransom@dcsol.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 12:22 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Bolt fit

Is a block guide something you just make, i.e. a block with the right
size
hole in it from a drill press? Sounds like a good way to go to ensure
the
reamer or drill starts in perpendular to a surface. But I would think
for
thicker parts you'd want to let the reamer follow the hole instead of
the
block guide. Isn't this a case where just being sure to move up to
final
size in steps should do the trick -- that being with reamer for the
final
step and measuring bolt and reamed size on scrap beforehand?
-Ben
PS: Good luck with it Jesse -- sounds like a frustrating experience.

Hi Jesse
Did the same thing with my Christavia and ordered the oversized bolts

at

about $25. us each. I can get the old paperwork out if you like. I

believe

they are .010" oversized which will probably have you finding an

adjustable

reamer and bring the holes up to the bolt size. Murphy shud be able

to
give

you their blessing to go the next size up. To bad there wasn't any

metric
an

bolts available. You'd probably find one a little bit larger than the

1/4 "

at a fraction of the price. I used a block guide on all other fittings

where

I could fit one to ensure alignment.. I believe the safest way to

drill

these fittings is to mount a block guide on one side and pull the

reamer

thru from the opposite side. You have to use a chucking reamer. That

way

you can keep the shaft of the reamer centered in the block hole as you

pull

it thru. Ensure you have a quality reamer and measure the hole it

makes

before use. There are alot of what are called hole cleaners out there

and

are passed on for reamers.

Steve W.
Rebel #637

From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Bolt fit
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:21:59 -0700

I drilled and reamed the strut attach fittings to the spar of my

right wing

today, but I'm not happy with the fit of the bolts. They drop into

the

holes
without a push and couple have some side to side play Should I be

worried

about this? I will look for a smaller reamer (mine is .249), but now

I have

these 4 loose holes. I remember reading about oversize bolts. Do they

go a

few thou bigger? If so, that would make for a tight fit. Or I could

use

5/16
bolts I guess?
My 3/16 reamer makes for a closer fit with the 3/16 bolts. This is

the

first
time I've used the 1/4, and it happens to be a rather critical area
unfortunately.
Thanks
Jesse

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:31 am**

Jesse
A good chucking reamer will cut from the top of the flutes as well as the
bottom

Steve W.

From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Bolt fit
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 19:03:16 -0700

Thanks for the replies guys,
I think for the other wing I will find a way to use the drill press,
probably put it on the floor and block up the spar. I do have a drill bar
with bushings, but didn't think it would be good to run the reamer through
it. I didn't think about pulling it through from the back. Will they cut
like that? Anyway, for now I need to figure out how to solve my existing
problem.
I am looking at AN-174 in a reference book from Genuine Aircraft Hardware
Co. They show the max diameter as .2492, & min Dia .2487. That's not
oversized, but slightly undersized. I put the micrometer on a few of my
bolts, they are all about .2475 ish, so I don't think the close tolerance
bolts would do the trick if they are only say 1.5 thou bigger. I guess it's
worth a try though. Also it seems like they only come in the drilled shank,
or drilled head and shank variety? I guess that's OK though? I will send an
email to MAM about going to 5/16 bolts, but the last question took Robin a
month to respond to.
Just my way of saying that you guys on this list are really a great asset!
Thanks again.
Jesse

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:31 am**

Hi Ben
A block guide is just that. A square 1" block of steel what ever length you
need to clamp it to whatever. For letting the reamer follow the hole then
you want what is called a spiral fluted reamer which has a definate taper up
to the finish size and is usually turner by hand. Don't confuse this with a
tapered pin reamer. Two different animals.

Steve W.

From: bransom@dcsol.com
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Bolt fit
Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 09:21:59 -0800

Is a block guide something you just make, i.e. a block with the right size
hole in it from a drill press? Sounds like a good way to go to ensure the
reamer or drill starts in perpendular to a surface. But I would think for
thicker parts you'd want to let the reamer follow the hole instead of the
block guide. Isn't this a case where just being sure to move up to final
size in steps should do the trick -- that being with reamer for the final
step and measuring bolt and reamed size on scrap beforehand?
-Ben
PS: Good luck with it Jesse -- sounds like a frustrating experience.

Hi Jesse
Did the same thing with my Christavia and ordered the oversized bolts at
about $25. us each. I can get the old paperwork out if you like. I
believe
they are .010" oversized which will probably have you finding an
adjustable
reamer and bring the holes up to the bolt size. Murphy shud be able to
give
you their blessing to go the next size up. To bad there wasn't any
metric
an
bolts available. You'd probably find one a little bit larger than the
1/4 "
at a fraction of the price. I used a block guide on all other fittings
where
I could fit one to ensure alignment.. I believe the safest way to drill
these fittings is to mount a block guide on one side and pull the reamer
thru from the opposite side. You have to use a chucking reamer. That
way
you can keep the shaft of the reamer centered in the block hole as you
pull
it thru. Ensure you have a quality reamer and measure the hole it makes
before use. There are alot of what are called hole cleaners out there
and
are passed on for reamers.

Steve W.
Rebel #637

From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Bolt fit
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:21:59 -0700

I drilled and reamed the strut attach fittings to the spar of my right
wing
today, but I'm not happy with the fit of the bolts. They drop into the
holes
without a push and couple have some side to side play Should I be
worried
about this? I will look for a smaller reamer (mine is .249), but now I
have
these 4 loose holes. I remember reading about oversize bolts. Do they
go a
few thou bigger? If so, that would make for a tight fit. Or I could use
5/16
bolts I guess?
My 3/16 reamer makes for a closer fit with the 3/16 bolts. This is the
first
time I've used the 1/4, and it happens to be a rather critical area
unfortunately.
Thanks
Jesse

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