The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:27 am**

I'm wanting to fit my seat rails and the manual doesn't say much except that
it's builders preference. Since I don't have the controls or rudder pedals
installed yet or the seats padded yet I thought I'd try asking you all where
you put yours and if you're happy with them there.
I'm looking for a measurement from the front face of the front
carrythrough (not cut in half) to the front of the seat rails.
I'm 5'10" 200lbs. Firewall not cut back.
I'm leaning toward mounting them as far forward as possible so with the
seats full forward there would be more access to the baggage area.
Thank much!

Joel

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:27 am**

Joel, the control column sits dead center on the carry thru tubes. Find the
two bearing plates and set it there. Then put your seat on the rails with a
small amount of the rail sticking out past the FRONT of the seat guides. Now
make the seat pan frame hit the control column. This is where they go and
this also negates the need for stops on the front of the tracks.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Jacobs" <jj@sdf.lonestar.org>
To: "Rebel builders" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 11:15 AM
Subject: Rebel seat rails

I'm wanting to fit my seat rails and the manual doesn't say much except

that

it's builders preference. Since I don't have the controls or rudder

pedals

installed yet or the seats padded yet I thought I'd try asking you all

where

you put yours and if you're happy with them there.
I'm looking for a measurement from the front face of the front
carrythrough (not cut in half) to the front of the seat rails.
I'm 5'10" 200lbs. Firewall not cut back.
I'm leaning toward mounting them as far forward as possible so with the
seats full forward there would be more access to the baggage area.
Thank much!

Joel

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:27 am**

Wayne,
They look good to me!. With the seats pinned to the front adjustment hole
the seat adjust lever is about 1/4" from the control column Looks like the
rear most adjustment hole is right between the two bulkheads that sandwich
the rear gear attaches.. Thanks again!
Joel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel seat rails

Joel, the control column sits dead center on the carry thru tubes. Find
the
two bearing plates and set it there. Then put your seat on the rails with
a
small amount of the rail sticking out past the FRONT of the seat guides.
Now
make the seat pan frame hit the control column. This is where they go and
this also negates the need for stops on the front of the tracks.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Jacobs" <jj@sdf.lonestar.org>
To: "Rebel builders" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 11:15 AM
Subject: Rebel seat rails

I'm wanting to fit my seat rails and the manual doesn't say much except
that
it's builders preference. Since I don't have the controls or rudder
pedals
installed yet or the seats padded yet I thought I'd try asking you all
where
you put yours and if you're happy with them there.
I'm looking for a measurement from the front face of the front
carrythrough (not cut in half) to the front of the seat rails.
I'm 5'10" 200lbs. Firewall not cut back.
I'm leaning toward mounting them as far forward as possible so with the
seats full forward there would be more access to the baggage area.
Thank much!

Joel

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:27 am**

Joel,
I suggest you wait until the pedals and sticks are mounted to mount seat
rails. We are having to reposition the pedals due to short co-pilot and
MAM lack of suggested pedal position. It is a difficult compromise to
get full aft stick travel and pedal reach for two pilots of
substantially differing inseam. Only when you can get in and make
airplane noises with stick in hand and feet on pedals can you be
certain. That said, with the MAM rail length it probably would be hard
to mount the rails too far forward.
Ralph Baker

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:27 am**

I can't help with positioning since I moved everything back... but an
extra set of seat rails purchased for 119R were perhaps 6" longer than
what came with the kit; so there are at least two different lengths out
there. I will go measure them if it is of interest to anyone.
Ken

Ralph Baker wrote:

Joel,
I suggest you wait until the pedals and sticks are mounted to mount seat
rails. We are having to reposition the pedals due to short co-pilot and
MAM lack of suggested pedal position. It is a difficult compromise to
get full aft stick travel and pedal reach for two pilots of
substantially differing inseam. Only when you can get in and make
airplane noises with stick in hand and feet on pedals can you be
certain. That said, with the MAM rail length it probably would be hard
to mount the rails too far forward.
Ralph Baker

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:27 am**

Joel
There was something about the measurements (width between rails) in the
manuel not being right. Maybe want to research this before drilling. Think
it was previously covered years ago.

Steve W.
Rebel 637

From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Rebel seat rails
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 12:08:41 -0400

Joel,
I suggest you wait until the pedals and sticks are mounted to mount seat
rails. We are having to reposition the pedals due to short co-pilot and
MAM lack of suggested pedal position. It is a difficult compromise to
get full aft stick travel and pedal reach for two pilots of
substantially differing inseam. Only when you can get in and make
airplane noises with stick in hand and feet on pedals can you be
certain. That said, with the MAM rail length it probably would be hard
to mount the rails too far forward.
Ralph Baker

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:27 am**

There's only one way to install the rails...when they are attached to the
bottom of your seat frames. And tag which frame is which when you do
it..pilot/copilot as there are minor differences generally in the tab
widths.

The old rails where, as Ken says, at least 6 inches shorter than what is
supplied these days. My seats all the way back are hard for over 6 footers
to swing themselves out of. With the extra length of the currently supplied
tracks there should be no issues if you mount them as I instructed Joel.....
so the seat can't come off the front of the rails before the seat hits the
column.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:11 AM
Subject: RE: Rebel seat rails

Joel
There was something about the measurements (width between rails) in the
manuel not being right. Maybe want to research this before drilling.

Think

it was previously covered years ago.

Steve W.
Rebel 637

From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Rebel seat rails
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 12:08:41 -0400

Joel,
I suggest you wait until the pedals and sticks are mounted to mount seat
rails. We are having to reposition the pedals due to short co-pilot and
MAM lack of suggested pedal position. It is a difficult compromise to
get full aft stick travel and pedal reach for two pilots of
substantially differing inseam. Only when you can get in and make
airplane noises with stick in hand and feet on pedals can you be
certain. That said, with the MAM rail length it probably would be hard
to mount the rails too far forward.
Ralph Baker

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:27 am**

Hi Ralph,
Too late, they went in yesterday. I'm sure they are going to be fine. They
have lots of adjustment range.
Joel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 12:08 PM
Subject: Rebel seat rails

Joel,
I suggest you wait until the pedals and sticks are mounted to mount seat
rails. We are having to reposition the pedals due to short co-pilot and
MAM lack of suggested pedal position. It is a difficult compromise to
get full aft stick travel and pedal reach for two pilots of
substantially differing inseam. Only when you can get in and make
airplane noises with stick in hand and feet on pedals can you be
certain. That said, with the MAM rail length it probably would be hard
to mount the rails too far forward.
Ralph Baker

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:27 am**

Yup, I had them on the seats when I mounted them. After I put the slight
bend in the rails it pulled the seat away from the column just enough that
I'll probably need the front stops. ( I had to line up the bend in the
rails with the bend in the floor..)
I did notice that as I slide the seat back the rear raises enough that the
locating pins won't go into the rails easy due to mis-alignment. How do you
fix that? I'm thinking after I get them riveted in I'll take a 1/4" steel
rod and insert it into the stubborn ones and shove it forward a bit. That
rail material seems malleable enough this might work..
One more thing, I'm not clear on the centering of the column left to
right on the carrythroughs. The manual says to center it but If I do the
sticks don't line up with the center of the seats, nor are the elevator
cable attach brackets centered as they are offset. If I center the
elevator attach tabs on the centerline, the pilots stick is dead center on
the pilot seat and the passenger stick is within 1/2" of centered. This
seems like the correct position to me. Am I thinking right?
Thanks much..
Joel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel seat rails

There's only one way to install the rails...when they are attached to the
bottom of your seat frames. And tag which frame is which when you do
it..pilot/copilot as there are minor differences generally in the tab
widths.

The old rails where, as Ken says, at least 6 inches shorter than what is
supplied these days. My seats all the way back are hard for over 6 footers
to swing themselves out of. With the extra length of the currently

supplied

tracks there should be no issues if you mount them as I instructed

Joel.....

so the seat can't come off the front of the rails before the seat hits the
column.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:11 AM
Subject: RE: Rebel seat rails

Joel
There was something about the measurements (width between rails) in the
manuel not being right. Maybe want to research this before drilling.
Think
it was previously covered years ago.

Steve W.
Rebel 637

From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Rebel seat rails
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 12:08:41 -0400

Joel,
I suggest you wait until the pedals and sticks are mounted to mount

seat

rails. We are having to reposition the pedals due to short co-pilot

and

MAM lack of suggested pedal position. It is a difficult compromise to
get full aft stick travel and pedal reach for two pilots of
substantially differing inseam. Only when you can get in and make
airplane noises with stick in hand and feet on pedals can you be
certain. That said, with the MAM rail length it probably would be hard
to mount the rails too far forward.
Ralph Baker

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:27 am**

Always the case Joel..seat pins don't seat.... and make darn sure you get
them to FULLY before the seat slides back on take off! All you can do is
ream the offending holes a size larger at a time until you get them to lock.
Don't go oblonging the holes by twisting a rod in them, as this "ramp" will
let the pins skip out when you don't want them to!

Hard to give advise on the elevator cable tabs position...as there are two
versions out there with the tabs offset on one to the pilots side of half
and the other to the copilot side of half. Put it where you think it's most
appropriate for cables running between the seats and comfortable stick
position and bang'r down. Adjust your small push pull from the left stick to
the doorsill bellcrank to suit.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Jacobs" <jj@sdf.lonestar.org>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel seat rails

Yup, I had them on the seats when I mounted them. After I put the slight
bend in the rails it pulled the seat away from the column just enough that
I'll probably need the front stops. ( I had to line up the bend in the
rails with the bend in the floor..)
I did notice that as I slide the seat back the rear raises enough that

the

locating pins won't go into the rails easy due to mis-alignment. How do

you

fix that? I'm thinking after I get them riveted in I'll take a 1/4" steel
rod and insert it into the stubborn ones and shove it forward a bit. That
rail material seems malleable enough this might work..
One more thing, I'm not clear on the centering of the column left to
right on the carrythroughs. The manual says to center it but If I do the
sticks don't line up with the center of the seats, nor are the elevator
cable attach brackets centered as they are offset. If I center the
elevator attach tabs on the centerline, the pilots stick is dead center on
the pilot seat and the passenger stick is within 1/2" of centered. This
seems like the correct position to me. Am I thinking right?
Thanks much..
Joel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel seat rails

There's only one way to install the rails...when they are attached to

the

bottom of your seat frames. And tag which frame is which when you do
it..pilot/copilot as there are minor differences generally in the tab
widths.

The old rails where, as Ken says, at least 6 inches shorter than what is
supplied these days. My seats all the way back are hard for over 6

footers

to swing themselves out of. With the extra length of the currently
supplied
tracks there should be no issues if you mount them as I instructed
Joel.....
so the seat can't come off the front of the rails before the seat hits

the

column.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:11 AM
Subject: RE: Rebel seat rails

Joel
There was something about the measurements (width between rails) in

the

manuel not being right. Maybe want to research this before drilling.
Think
it was previously covered years ago.

Steve W.
Rebel 637

seat
and

to

hard

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:27 am**

Wayne,
Wasn't there something about the page that showed the distances for the
floor doublers not aligning to the span of the seat rails? It was important
to have the rails on top of the doublers?

Steve W

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Rebel seat rails
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:20:51 -0400

There's only one way to install the rails...when they are attached to the
bottom of your seat frames. And tag which frame is which when you do
it..pilot/copilot as there are minor differences generally in the tab
widths.

The old rails where, as Ken says, at least 6 inches shorter than what is
supplied these days. My seats all the way back are hard for over 6 footers
to swing themselves out of. With the extra length of the currently supplied
tracks there should be no issues if you mount them as I instructed
Joel.....
so the seat can't come off the front of the rails before the seat hits the
column.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:11 AM
Subject: RE: Rebel seat rails

Joel
There was something about the measurements (width between rails) in the
manuel not being right. Maybe want to research this before drilling.
Think
it was previously covered years ago.

Steve W.
Rebel 637

From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Rebel seat rails
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 12:08:41 -0400

Joel,
I suggest you wait until the pedals and sticks are mounted to mount
seat
rails. We are having to reposition the pedals due to short co-pilot
and
MAM lack of suggested pedal position. It is a difficult compromise to
get full aft stick travel and pedal reach for two pilots of
substantially differing inseam. Only when you can get in and make
airplane noises with stick in hand and feet on pedals can you be
certain. That said, with the MAM rail length it probably would be hard
to mount the rails too far forward.
Ralph Baker

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:27 am**

Yes Steve, I do remember someone bringing that up that the new way they show
with doubled up back to back channels didn't match the seat rail location.
Just figured Joel was well beyond that if he was drilling his rails.

I also have to note that earlier kits/manuals only have a single channel
under each seat rail and it only picks up a single side of the rails for
rivets and the other side of the rail is only into the floor skin and a
couple spots that they cross bulkheads. Structurally this hasn't been an
issue in any of the rebuilds I've done. Even with floor bulkheads crushed
from the G loads of the seat occupant..the rails were still absolutely
secure with no signs of failure of attachment.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel seat rails

Wayne,
Wasn't there something about the page that showed the distances for the
floor doublers not aligning to the span of the seat rails? It was

important

to have the rails on top of the doublers?

Steve W

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Rebel seat rails
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:20:51 -0400

There's only one way to install the rails...when they are attached to the
bottom of your seat frames. And tag which frame is which when you do
it..pilot/copilot as there are minor differences generally in the tab
widths.

The old rails where, as Ken says, at least 6 inches shorter than what is
supplied these days. My seats all the way back are hard for over 6

footers

to swing themselves out of. With the extra length of the currently

supplied

tracks there should be no issues if you mount them as I instructed
Joel.....
so the seat can't come off the front of the rails before the seat hits

the

column.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:11 AM
Subject: RE: Rebel seat rails

Joel
There was something about the measurements (width between rails) in

the

manuel not being right. Maybe want to research this before drilling.
Think
it was previously covered years ago.

Steve W.
Rebel 637

seat
and

to

hard

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:27 am**

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel seat rails

Yes Steve, I do remember someone bringing that up that the new way they

show

with doubled up back to back channels didn't match the seat rail location.
Just figured Joel was well beyond that if he was drilling his rails.

Yup, my manual only shows one channel under one side of the rails but I
went ahead and put two in. I didn't put them back to back, I put them in
the other way and spaced them out a bit to mach the seat rails..
Joel

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