Followup: M-14 Kimball air start solenoids
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:27 am
Kevin,
Thank you for your reply. Seems from others on the list that the issue
most likely is with the solenoids needing to be cleaned every x hours
(Ryan Mowat suggested every 100). Ryan also indicated he thought the
solenoids work best if installed so the coils are upright. Here are
Ryan's comments to me (I assume it's Ok to share Ryan):
Taking apart you need to make a small tool, I used a 1/8" piece of AL
and a couple of drill bits as pins to turn the cap office.
--------------------
Not a big deal to clean - but confusing to put back together - take some
pictures as you take it apart or do a sketch or you'll forget.
I forgot to tell you on the web - the coils need to be up and the coil
shaft mounted vertically for them to work the best - we ended up
remounting them to get them to work right.
--------------------
Thank you again for chiming in Kevin,
Ted Waltman
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
KJKimball@aol.com
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 7:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: M-14 Kimball air start system question
Hey guys. Just home from SNF and see there is a bunch of chatter about
our
air systems. Two threads worth. We want to be included in the
discovery
process with the systems. I have a billion emails to get through and
things at the
shop to get up to speed on but will do all I can, as will Dad to help
sort
this out for you.
The start and bypass valves are the same part number. The coils can
vary
from time to time as there are several equivalent coils for 12 volt
systems and
for 24 volt systems. There will be a part number both on the brass coil
body
and on the black coil housing.
When trouble shooting the system, you can start at the tank. This will
test
the tank shut off valve. Remove the hose from the bottle valve, crack
the
valve and see if it blasts air freely. Next attach the hose to the
bottle valve
again, disconnect the other end of the hose at the blue manifold and
test that
hose and bottle by cracking the bottle valve again. If good there,
attach
hose to manifold again, disconnect the hose at the start valve and with
bottle
open, hit the start switch to open the start valve and see if you get a
startling blast. If good there, reattach the hose to the start valve
and disconnect
it from the start spider. Ties that end of the hose down with a tie
wrap and
hit the start again. If you get a good blast there, the only thing left
is
the inlet valve of the spider or the spider. If you find an issue at
any one of
these steps along, the way, determine the cause and let us know.
We have a specific bottle and valve we use in our air systems mounted
horizontally and the solenoid valves are at roughly the same elevation
as the valve
in the tank. The low point in our system as we install it is the pop
off
valve. So those of you who have different bottles or have them mounted
in
different attitudes may see some variations in where the junk in the
system tends to
settle. I don't know if this is an issue at all. Just a thought off
the top
of my head because in the model 12s, we have had minimal issues with
this given
the couple thousand flight hours accumulated thus far. When we do have
air
system issues in the model 12 set up, it typically is on those airplanes
where
the pilots do not use the bypass valve as we do. That being having the
system
in bypass at all times except for a few minutes after starting while the
compressor boosts the system back to full pressure. We normally leave
the air in
bypass until just before hitting the start switch.
We have one model 12 owner who wanted to conserve air at start. He put
a
restrictor in the output fitting of the start valve with a .050" hole in
it
instead of the full fitting ID of about .150" and found that the prop
would spin
just as fast as a fully open fitting. The point here is that a
restriction that
great did not make a noticeable difference in the spin speed of the
prop.
So, if you see a reduction in spin rate, there is a near full
restriction.
At any rate, I will get with Dad, we will look up the part numbers and
help
in every way we can.
Sincerely,
Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering
Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc.
PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd.
Zellwood, FL 32798
407-889-3451 phone
407-889-7168 fax
http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/
http://www.pittsmodel12.com/
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Thank you for your reply. Seems from others on the list that the issue
most likely is with the solenoids needing to be cleaned every x hours
(Ryan Mowat suggested every 100). Ryan also indicated he thought the
solenoids work best if installed so the coils are upright. Here are
Ryan's comments to me (I assume it's Ok to share Ryan):
Taking apart you need to make a small tool, I used a 1/8" piece of AL
and a couple of drill bits as pins to turn the cap office.
--------------------
Not a big deal to clean - but confusing to put back together - take some
pictures as you take it apart or do a sketch or you'll forget.
I forgot to tell you on the web - the coils need to be up and the coil
shaft mounted vertically for them to work the best - we ended up
remounting them to get them to work right.
--------------------
Thank you again for chiming in Kevin,
Ted Waltman
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
KJKimball@aol.com
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 7:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: M-14 Kimball air start system question
Hey guys. Just home from SNF and see there is a bunch of chatter about
our
air systems. Two threads worth. We want to be included in the
discovery
process with the systems. I have a billion emails to get through and
things at the
shop to get up to speed on but will do all I can, as will Dad to help
sort
this out for you.
The start and bypass valves are the same part number. The coils can
vary
from time to time as there are several equivalent coils for 12 volt
systems and
for 24 volt systems. There will be a part number both on the brass coil
body
and on the black coil housing.
When trouble shooting the system, you can start at the tank. This will
test
the tank shut off valve. Remove the hose from the bottle valve, crack
the
valve and see if it blasts air freely. Next attach the hose to the
bottle valve
again, disconnect the other end of the hose at the blue manifold and
test that
hose and bottle by cracking the bottle valve again. If good there,
attach
hose to manifold again, disconnect the hose at the start valve and with
bottle
open, hit the start switch to open the start valve and see if you get a
startling blast. If good there, reattach the hose to the start valve
and disconnect
it from the start spider. Ties that end of the hose down with a tie
wrap and
hit the start again. If you get a good blast there, the only thing left
is
the inlet valve of the spider or the spider. If you find an issue at
any one of
these steps along, the way, determine the cause and let us know.
We have a specific bottle and valve we use in our air systems mounted
horizontally and the solenoid valves are at roughly the same elevation
as the valve
in the tank. The low point in our system as we install it is the pop
off
valve. So those of you who have different bottles or have them mounted
in
different attitudes may see some variations in where the junk in the
system tends to
settle. I don't know if this is an issue at all. Just a thought off
the top
of my head because in the model 12s, we have had minimal issues with
this given
the couple thousand flight hours accumulated thus far. When we do have
air
system issues in the model 12 set up, it typically is on those airplanes
where
the pilots do not use the bypass valve as we do. That being having the
system
in bypass at all times except for a few minutes after starting while the
compressor boosts the system back to full pressure. We normally leave
the air in
bypass until just before hitting the start switch.
We have one model 12 owner who wanted to conserve air at start. He put
a
restrictor in the output fitting of the start valve with a .050" hole in
it
instead of the full fitting ID of about .150" and found that the prop
would spin
just as fast as a fully open fitting. The point here is that a
restriction that
great did not make a noticeable difference in the spin speed of the
prop.
So, if you see a reduction in spin rate, there is a near full
restriction.
At any rate, I will get with Dad, we will look up the part numbers and
help
in every way we can.
Sincerely,
Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering
Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc.
PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd.
Zellwood, FL 32798
407-889-3451 phone
407-889-7168 fax
http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/
http://www.pittsmodel12.com/
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