The Murphy Builders Site

Hi all,
Looking to put together a shopping list for a salvage operator I know. I want to buy 160-180hp Lycoming with some time on it or run out. I plan on rebuilding or such myself. What are the models I should be looking for? Would the fixed prop that may be part of the salvage airplane it comes from also work? Or is that a hp thing and instead, need something tailored to the Elite specs?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
Elite 771



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Mike,

Don't think I have ever seen a stall horn on an experimental kit. Maybe
someone has added one. Stall horns are common on certified planes because it is
required for certification. If it was me, I would invest in an "Angle of
Attack" gage before I would spend money on a stall horn.

Bruce




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I seen those before but never used one. Maybe I will take that route.
Thanks,
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: Engine

Mike,

Don't think I have ever seen a stall horn on an experimental kit. Maybe
someone has added one. Stall horns are common on certified planes because

it is

required for certification. If it was me, I would invest in an "Angle of
Attack" gage before I would spend money on a stall horn.

Bruce




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G'day from OZ Mike !

The only 320 sized engine that everyone seems to say STAY AWAY from
- is the old "H2AD"
(known to regularly chew up camshafts in 400 hrs)

Wide deck blocks are preferable to narrow deck blocks (they're stronger
in general)

The propeller that came with the engine would be OK IF the plane DOES
ABOUT THE SAME SPEEDS as an Elite, and - has about the same wing
loading & area !

Rick Harper
541 R
(flying with a SOOPED UP IO-320 in it - and going GREAT !
----- Original Message -----
From: mbetti@up.net
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 4:31 AM
Subject: Engine



Hi all,
Looking to put together a shopping list for a salvage operator I know.
I want to buy 160-180hp Lycoming with some time on it or run out. I plan
on rebuilding or such myself. What are the models I should be looking
for? Would the fixed prop that may be part of the salvage airplane it
comes from also work? Or is that a hp thing and instead, need something
tailored to the Elite specs?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
Elite 771



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Hello Mike,
Will have to disagreed with my mate Rick Harper on the H2AD engine(gees, I
might be now off his social list!!!!)
The H2AD has had an undeserved bad reputation for some time. The two
chief complaints were the Lifter AD (Airworthiness Directive) and the
single drive, dual magneto. The AD called for inspection and
replacement with a new, upgraded lifter if there was any spalling of
the lifter and cam. They also required that an additive (Lycoming
Avco) be used at every oil change. There is also a T mod available(see Chuck
Ney Website RFQ). As for the mags you might want to upgrade to the new E-mag
I have purchased a first life(TT1955hrs) H2AD with all accessories(mags,
carbi, alternator) for $AUS 5000. The compression are all in the mid
seventies and I will run it on condition for a year or so when I get flying.
Because of the underserved reputation you may be able find one at a very
good price.
By the way, thanks for asking the group all the difficult questions on
building your wing; I am building my right wing now & it appears that I am a
few pages behind you in construction. It seems that your questions & the
received anwsers, resolve my problems. Sometimes I would love to shoved the
building manuel up someones fundamental_____!!!

Regards,
Greg. Gordon. Elite 724










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Greg,
I don't know much about Lycomings, so my questions are as a newbie, not 'hey
you're full of it'. So, how do you know the H2AD reputation is undeserved if
you haven't flown yours yet? (I take it that you have info from others.)
Along this line, the AD for an upgraded lifter -- if the "bad reputation" is
for chewing up cams, I'm pretty curious if this upgraded lifter is different
in some way that would tend to not chew cams ...or is it just a replacement
so the owner will go away for another 400 hours.

PS: I'm right in there same pages as you and MBetti it seems.
-Ben /496R

Hello Mike,
Will have to disagreed with my mate Rick Harper on the H2AD engine(gees, I
might be now off his social list!!!!)
The H2AD has had an undeserved bad reputation for some time. The two
chief complaints were the Lifter AD (Airworthiness Directive) and the
single drive, dual magneto. The AD called for inspection and
replacement with a new, upgraded lifter if there was any spalling of
the lifter and cam. They also required that an additive (Lycoming
Avco) be used at every oil change. There is also a T mod available(see Chuck
Ney Website RFQ). As for the mags you might want to upgrade to the new E-mag
I have purchased a first life(TT1955hrs) H2AD with all accessories(mags,
carbi, alternator) for $AUS 5000. The compression are all in the mid
seventies and I will run it on condition for a year or so when I get flying.
Because of the underserved reputation you may be able find one at a very
good price.
By the way, thanks for asking the group all the difficult questions on
building your wing; I am building my right wing now & it appears that I am a
few pages behind you in construction. It seems that your questions & the
received anwsers, resolve my problems. Sometimes I would love to shoved the
building manuel up someones fundamental_____!!!

Regards,
Greg. Gordon. Elite 724

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Hello Ben,
Fair comment. Firstly I purchased my H2AD from my local L.A.M.E(licenced
aircraft mechanic) who has maintained my current aircraft(VH-LCX) for the
last ten years, so I have sometime for his advice. He gave me a bit of
advice about the history of the H2AD; so before I purchased it, I did some
reseach myself.
Secondly here in Australia by way of an AD issused by our CASA in approx.
1980 all H2AD engines had to have the new upgraded lifter installed as well
as an oil additive to be used. This upgraded lifter mostly resolved the
problem especially for those aircraft flown frequently.
Thirdly I have flown behind a H2AD, as well you may have. They were produced
originally for the 1976 production model Cessna 172(M or N??). I think over
3000 aircraft were produced with this engine; most of them used by flying
schools.
Finally the H2AD engine that I purchased came with log books; the original
AD was complied with and there were no other major mechanical problems over
the life of the engine. And the price was right as was the condition of the
engine. This engine was removed as the owner upgraded his Cessna to a 180
hp 0360 engine.
See the attachment from Sacramento Sky Ranch pertaining to the inspection of
the lobe. As well see the attachment on the T modification from Chuck Ney
Enterprises. I may go down this track at a later date.
So hopefully you may come across a good engine at the right price.

Kind regards,
Greg. Gordon. Elite 724









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If I am not mistaken you will have to modify the MAM motor mount and cut a
hole in your firwall to service the magneto though.

BOB JOHNSON...yah there...they need you!!!

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Gordon" <cosmedi@bigpond.net.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: Engine

Hello Ben,
Fair comment. Firstly I purchased my H2AD from my local L.A.M.E(licenced
aircraft mechanic) who has maintained my current aircraft(VH-LCX) for the
last ten years, so I have sometime for his advice. He gave me a bit of
advice about the history of the H2AD; so before I purchased it, I did some
reseach myself.
Secondly here in Australia by way of an AD issused by our CASA in approx.
1980 all H2AD engines had to have the new upgraded lifter installed as

well

as an oil additive to be used. This upgraded lifter mostly resolved the
problem especially for those aircraft flown frequently.
Thirdly I have flown behind a H2AD, as well you may have. They were

produced

originally for the 1976 production model Cessna 172(M or N??). I think

over

3000 aircraft were produced with this engine; most of them used by flying
schools.
Finally the H2AD engine that I purchased came with log books; the

original

AD was complied with and there were no other major mechanical problems

over

the life of the engine. And the price was right as was the condition of

the

engine. This engine was removed as the owner upgraded his Cessna to a 180
hp 0360 engine.
See the attachment from Sacramento Sky Ranch pertaining to the inspection

of

the lobe. As well see the attachment on the T modification from Chuck Ney
Enterprises. I may go down this track at a later date.
So hopefully you may come across a good engine at the right price.

Kind regards,
Greg. Gordon. Elite 724









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Al or Ralph,
I'm not sure if both of you used one. I was looking at the Aero Sport power engines and wondering which model you used. 0360 A1A? Fixed pitch? Balanced crank? hollow crank?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E



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Mike:

I used the O360-A1A, fixed pitch, but went with the hollow (plugged) crank.
I used low compression jugs to enable me to burn mogas - seemed like a
useful option for a floatplane. I put Plasma 2 ignition on one side. You
can get away without a fuel pump, but if you plan on using a fuel flow
meter, you have to get the special "gravity feed" sensor which costs more
than the standard unit. Without it, you won't pass the fuel flow test.

Al





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I was hoping no fuel pump was needed. You mention fuel flow test, is that just if you install an instrument as such? Or does the engine need it?
Thanks,
Mike Betti

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:00:18 -0500, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

Mike:

I used the O360-A1A, fixed pitch, but went with the hollow (plugged) crank.
I used low compression jugs to enable me to burn mogas - seemed like a
useful option for a floatplane. I put Plasma 2 ignition on one side. You
can get away without a fuel pump, but if you plan on using a fuel flow
meter, you have to get the special "gravity feed" sensor which costs more
than the standard unit. Without it, you won't pass the fuel flow test.

Al





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Mike,
I'd suggest that you get hold of Tony Bingellis' (sp?) books about
homebuilt aircraft construction. Tony was an icon, in the world of
homebuilts and he wrote some wonderful books about the subject. In the book
about engine installations (Firewall Forward, I think) he describes a fuel
flow test procedure. While there are lots of Rebels, and other MAM designs,
flying successfully, each homebuilt is unique. Because we build em how we
choose to, there are no guarantees that everything will perform like the
other flying examples. For that reason, it's a good idea to perform a fuel
flow test of YOUR AIRPLANE, in the flight ready configuration. It doesn't
take too long and you'll feel better, knowing that the system can adequately
supply all the requirements of your engine. A takeoff, from a remote,
short, tree lined airstrip, is not a good time to hope like hell that the
engine doesn't quit. Fuel starvation is a sure fire cause of 'silent
engines.'

Bill




On 12/29/05, mbetti@up.net <mbetti@up.net> wrote:

I was hoping no fuel pump was needed. You mention fuel flow test, is that
just if you install an instrument as such? Or does the engine need it?
Thanks,
Mike Betti

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:00:18 -0500, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

Mike:

I used the O360-A1A, fixed pitch, but went with the hollow (plugged)

crank.

I used low compression jugs to enable me to burn mogas - seemed like a
useful option for a floatplane. I put Plasma 2 ignition on one

side. You

can get away without a fuel pump, but if you plan on using a fuel flow
meter, you have to get the special "gravity feed" sensor which costs more
than the standard unit. Without it, you won't pass the fuel flow test.

Al





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Excellent advice, Bill ! Fuel flow tests are one of the manadatory
inspections in Canada, prior to getting a flight permit.

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Thursday 29 December 2005 12:18 pm, Bill Delcambre wrote:

Mike,
I'd suggest that you get hold of Tony Bingellis' (sp?) books about
homebuilt aircraft construction. Tony was an icon, in the world of
homebuilts and he wrote some wonderful books about the subject. In the

book

about engine installations (Firewall Forward, I think) he describes a fuel
flow test procedure. While there are lots of Rebels, and other MAM

designs,

flying successfully, each homebuilt is unique. Because we build em how we
choose to, there are no guarantees that everything will perform like the
other flying examples. For that reason, it's a good idea to perform a

fuel

flow test of YOUR AIRPLANE, in the flight ready configuration. It doesn't
take too long and you'll feel better, knowing that the system can

adequately

supply all the requirements of your engine. A takeoff, from a remote,
short, tree lined airstrip, is not a good time to hope like hell that the
engine doesn't quit. Fuel starvation is a sure fire cause of 'silent
engines.'

Bill




On 12/29/05, mbetti@up.net <mbetti@up.net> wrote:

I was hoping no fuel pump was needed. You mention fuel flow test, is

that

just if you install an instrument as such? Or does the engine need it?
Thanks,
Mike Betti

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:00:18 -0500, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

Mike:

I used the O360-A1A, fixed pitch, but went with the hollow (plugged)

crank.

I used low compression jugs to enable me to burn mogas - seemed like a
useful option for a floatplane. I put Plasma 2 ignition on one

side. You

can get away without a fuel pump, but if you plan on using a fuel flow
meter, you have to get the special "gravity feed" sensor which costs

more

than the standard unit. Without it, you won't pass the fuel flow test.

Al





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