The Murphy Builders Site

Digest of list: rebel-builders-d Total messages in digest: 21

1 Date : Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:17:54 -0700 (PDT)
From : bowmanout@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

2 Date : Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:06:55 -0400
From : rgfisher@zeuter.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

3 Date : Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:16:41 -0400
From : rebaker@sc.rr.com
Subject: Epoxy primer

4 Date : Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:30:24 -0700 (PDT)
From : bowmanout@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: nose gear back-up/foldup tubes

5 Date : Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:46:22 -0400
From : oifa@irishfield.on.ca
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

6 Date : Sat, 09 Apr 2005 19:00:47 -0700
From : walter.klatt@shaw.ca
Subject: RE: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

7 Date : Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:39:33 -0400
From : drewjan@cabletv.on.ca
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

8 Date : Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:44:25 -0800
From : mike.davis@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rotax 912s exhaust system

9 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 00:11:03 EDT
From : legeorgen@aol.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

10 Date : Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:43:35 -0400
From : klehman@albedo.net
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

11 Date : Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:52:27 -0400
From : klehman@albedo.net
Subject: Re: Rebel tail tips

12 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:56:16 EDT
From : wudoktor@aol.com
Subject: Strontium Chromate primer - Sherwin williams

13 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:52:54 -0400
From : drewjan@cabletv.on.ca
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

14 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:19:59 EDT
From : legeorgen@aol.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

15 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:30:18 -0400
From : oifa@irishfield.on.ca
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

16 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:10:42 -0700
From : walter.klatt@shaw.ca
Subject: RE: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

17 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:55:49 +0000
From : srwhitenect@hotmail.com
Subject: Exhaust Support

18 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:25:22 -0400
From : klehman@albedo.net
Subject: Elevator Trim direction/ flap position indicator

19 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:50:54 -0600
From : sa@mwutah.com
Subject: RE: Elevator Trim direction/ flap position indicator

20 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:54:43 -0700 (PDT)
From : bowmanout@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: float hydro presure

21 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:06:02 -0400
From : rgfisher@zeuter.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320


---------- Digest Message #1 ----------
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:17:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: bowmanout@yahoo.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320



hi,



My 0-320, 150 hp, non-dynafocal mount, engine built in 1956 came from a
money. it's model designation is 0320. there is no suffix. it is the same
as an 0-320-a1 i think. you are probably correct that since the 60's there
has not been an 0-320 mooney, but the logs that came with this freshly
overhauled 0-320 definitely say that it spent it's younger days flying
faster than it is now in my christavia mk=1.



almost all our lakes have become soft water, as opposed to ice in the last
3 days. in fact i would have done my first 2005 water landing, but, i lost
hydraulic preassure after the plane sat on a blacktop ramp for 3 hours in
70 degree temps. we finished our float install in oct so this was the
first warm high sun angle day she has sat out in.



question for the group???? do you release the preassure on you hydro in
these conditions? or do you park with nose wheels castered aft and leave
100lbs on the system??? that is what i did and one of the fittings leaked.
for those who have not done this, i took off with 0 preassure and landed
same. no problem. i do wish i'd brought the "backup" pvc locks for the
nose wheels, but i left them on my ramp so i would not forget to put them
in when i backed the plane into the hangar. i decided to put the locks in
and push it in frontwards when i got back to my hangar. i'll try to find
the problem tomorrow.



andy

1088 amphibs

christavia mk=1

mich


---------------------------------
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---------- Digest Message #2 ----------
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:06:55 -0400
From: rgfisher@zeuter.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

hi andy i park with the nose gear pointing aft always then the
pressure can bleed off which it does and nothing happens

i`m going to make a set of the tubes that go over the rod on the cylinder
just for when i push backwards
what material did you use? aluminum tubing? how do you make sure it`s
out
before takoff?

bob fisher rebel 342 on 1800 amphibs parry sound ont


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Bowman" <bowmanout@yahoo.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

hi,



My 0-320, 150 hp, non-dynafocal mount, engine built in 1956 came from a

money. it's model designation is 0320. there is no suffix. it is the same
as
an 0-320-a1 i think. you are probably correct that since the 60's there
has
not been an 0-320 mooney, but the logs that came with this freshly
overhauled 0-320 definitely say that it spent it's younger days flying
faster than it is now in my christavia mk=1.

almost all our lakes have become soft water, as opposed to ice in the
last

3 days. in fact i would have done my first 2005 water landing, but, i lost
hydraulic preassure after the plane sat on a blacktop ramp for 3 hours in
70
degree temps. we finished our float install in oct so this was the first
warm high sun angle day she has sat out in.

question for the group???? do you release the preassure on you hydro in

these conditions? or do you park with nose wheels castered aft and leave
100lbs on the system??? that is what i did and one of the fittings leaked.
for those who have not done this, i took off with 0 preassure and landed
same. no problem. i do wish i'd brought the "backup" pvc locks for the
nose
wheels, but i left them on my ramp so i would not forget to put them in
when
i backed the plane into the hangar. i decided to put the locks in and push
it in frontwards when i got back to my hangar. i'll try to find the
problem
tomorrow.

andy

1088 amphibs

christavia mk=1

mich


---------------------------------
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---------- Digest Message #3 ----------
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:16:41 -0400
From: rebaker@sc.rr.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Epoxy primer

Wayne (and others):
The strontium chromate primer we use is covered by the following data.
It is two part epoxy and the thinner is the high humidity, blush
resistant type. One of the two companies mentioned bought the other
(don't remember which) but they should be able to cross reference.

Pratt & Lambert high solids epoxy thinner 110-059.
Pratt & Lambert epoxy primer curing agent P610421.
Sherwin Williams corrosion protective epoxy primer CM0483660.

The mix ratio is 2 resin to 1 curing agent. Mix throughly and wait 20
minutes. Then thin about 25% to spray.
Do not spray without a mask rated for this service! Read the mask
canister data and be sure.
Ralph Baker


---------- Digest Message #4 ----------
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:30:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: bowmanout@yahoo.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: nose gear back-up/foldup tubes

Hi Bob,

My partner, Clint, made the inserts out of pvc tubing, the idea came from
someone on this list. they are slit open on the bottoms to a width that
allows them to snap on over/around the cylinder rods. to assist in
installation and removal, they have pcv handles glued to them at about a
70 degree angle. to avoid departure with them installed we painted them
red. we have flown with them installed before we ready to try inflight
retraction. no problems.

hope this helps.

Andy


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---------- Digest Message #5 ----------
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:46:22 -0400
From: oifa@irishfield.on.ca
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

I can tell you, as I did earlier this winter that my hydraulic system does
not bleed down what so ever on my skis using the MAM pump. Howard's
amphibs
would stay at pressure all winter long in the hanger as well...so I kinda
wonder if you guys have internally leaking cylinders or check valves.
Just
a short park in the sun in -15c weather took the pressure from 100 to over
600psi shinning on my black stratoflex hoses. I'd left it a Zero after
that
and went into the hanger today +12 to find the pressure at 550psi! Sure
glad
I went with all solid (Stainless - only cause I had some preflared c/w
fittings that worked out) lines. Guess all I can say is YES, once you have
the airplane parked where you want it bleed to zero and check the gauge
often.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Fisher" <rgfisher@zeuter.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

hi andy i park with the nose gear pointing aft always then the
pressure can bleed off which it does and nothing happens

i`m going to make a set of the tubes that go over the rod on the cylinder
just for when i push backwards
what material did you use? aluminum tubing? how do you make sure it`s

out

before takoff?

bob fisher rebel 342 on 1800 amphibs parry sound ont


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Bowman" <bowmanout@yahoo.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

hi,



My 0-320, 150 hp, non-dynafocal mount, engine built in 1956 came from a

money. it's model designation is 0320. there is no suffix. it is the same

as

an 0-320-a1 i think. you are probably correct that since the 60's there

has

not been an 0-320 mooney, but the logs that came with this freshly
overhauled 0-320 definitely say that it spent it's younger days flying
faster than it is now in my christavia mk=1.

almost all our lakes have become soft water, as opposed to ice in the

last

3 days. in fact i would have done my first 2005 water landing, but, i
lost
hydraulic preassure after the plane sat on a blacktop ramp for 3 hours in

70

degree temps. we finished our float install in oct so this was the first
warm high sun angle day she has sat out in.

question for the group???? do you release the preassure on you hydro in

these conditions? or do you park with nose wheels castered aft and leave
100lbs on the system??? that is what i did and one of the fittings
leaked.
for those who have not done this, i took off with 0 preassure and landed
same. no problem. i do wish i'd brought the "backup" pvc locks for the

nose

wheels, but i left them on my ramp so i would not forget to put them in

when

i backed the plane into the hangar. i decided to put the locks in and
push
it in frontwards when i got back to my hangar. i'll try to find the

problem

tomorrow.

andy

1088 amphibs

christavia mk=1

mich


---------------------------------
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---------- Digest Message #6 ----------
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 19:00:47 -0700
From: walter.klatt@shaw.ca
To: rebel-builders
Subject: RE: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

My 0320 conical mount also has no suffix. I had it overhauled as
a non certified engine, so it probably doesn't resemble anything
now. It came set up for a constant speed, but I converted it for
FP. I always thought it originally came out of a Tri-Pacer.

I always release the pressure on the selector valve and keep it
in the neutral position after the gear is cycled up or down. That
way I don't put any pressure on the lines or fittings. Just
before take-off, I do have to pump them up again, so the wheels
don't drag in the water. I use the standard MAM lines, and no
problems so far. I actually preferred the clear lines, because I
could get all the air out of the system, without any messy
bleeding.

I only use the front locks when pulling it in the hangar. With
the wheels castered back as in the moving forward position, the
gear will not collapse, but if they are castered to the front as
when pulling back, they most certainly will. I use PVC pipe for
locks, cut just enough so they pop in place around the cylinder
shaft.

As for leaks, I did have some initially on some fittings, but
managed to fix them all. In some cases, I had to change the
little brass collar to a different style from a local automotive
shop, that worked better for me.

One thing to watch for, is make sure your rubber hose from the
pump to the selector valve is not fuel line as MAM apparently
shipped to some builders. Can't remember the exact PSI, but I
think mine was 600. Bruce G. would know as he found that out the
hard way, after we flew into a remote alpine lake last summer and
it sat there in the hot sun with his selector valve not in
neutral.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Andy Bowman
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 5:18 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320




hi,



My 0-320, 150 hp, non-dynafocal mount, engine built in
1956 came from a money. it's model designation is
0320. there is no suffix. it is the same as an
0-320-a1 i think. you are probably correct that since
the 60's there has not been an 0-320 mooney, but the
logs that came with this freshly overhauled 0-320
definitely say that it spent it's younger days flying
faster than it is now in my christavia mk=1.



almost all our lakes have become soft water, as
opposed to ice in the last 3 days. in fact i would
have done my first 2005 water landing, but, i lost
hydraulic preassure after the plane sat on a blacktop
ramp for 3 hours in 70 degree temps. we finished our
float install in oct so this was the first warm high
sun angle day she has sat out in.



question for the group???? do you release the
preassure on you hydro in these conditions? or do you
park with nose wheels castered aft and leave 100lbs on
the system??? that is what i did and one of the
fittings leaked. for those who have not done this, i
took off with 0 preassure and landed same. no problem.
i do wish i'd brought the "backup" pvc locks for the
nose wheels, but i left them on my ramp so i would not
forget to put them in when i backed the plane into the
hangar. i decided to put the locks in and push it in
frontwards when i got back to my hangar. i'll try to
find the problem tomorrow.



andy

1088 amphibs

christavia mk=1

mich


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!



-------------------------------------------------------
----------
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----------

---------- Digest Message #7 ----------
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:39:33 -0400
From: drewjan@cabletv.on.ca
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

My hydraulic system loses pressure after about 10minutes I replaced the
lines with truck air brake lines and fittings I've also replaced both the
pump check valves and there's no apparent leaks so at least one of my
cylinders must have an internal leak. I can live with it the way it is now
I just have to remember to give a short stroke on the pump when on final.
Maybe a little bit of air in the system would keep the pressure from going
too high when parked.

At 09:46 PM 4/9/2005 -0400, you wrote:

I can tell you, as I did earlier this winter that my hydraulic system does
not bleed down what so ever on my skis using the MAM pump. Howard's
amphibs
would stay at pressure all winter long in the hanger as well...so I kinda
wonder if you guys have internally leaking cylinders or check valves.
Just
a short park in the sun in -15c weather took the pressure from 100 to over
600psi shinning on my black stratoflex hoses. I'd left it a Zero after
that
and went into the hanger today +12 to find the pressure at 550psi! Sure
glad
I went with all solid (Stainless - only cause I had some preflared c/w
fittings that worked out) lines. Guess all I can say is YES, once you have
the airplane parked where you want it bleed to zero and check the gauge
often.

Wayne

Drew



---------- Digest Message #8 ----------
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:44:25 -0800
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: Rotax 912s exhaust system

Not sure what's happening Bruce... don't understand the the "can't display
image" either... there isn't anything to display? Once you click the
upload
now button are you clicking on anything else? If so, you must not do
this... once you enter your file information and click upload now... you
need to wait until the screen shows upload successful. There is no
indication that anything is happening. Anyway, just send me the pics and
a
description, and I'll take care of it. Oh, and while I prefer that pics
uploaded are 640x480, it's just to make them easy to view for everybody on
the list. There are no limitations to what you upload.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: Rotax 912s exhaust system

Mike,

I know it has been awhile since I uploaded any pics but I have tried
several
times with the same resolute. After the upload is half complete I get a
"can't display image" message. I reduced the file size using IrfanView
but it
doesn't seem to matter.

Bruce

---------- Digest Message #9 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 00:11:03 EDT
From: legeorgen@aol.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

I have found even with the selector valve in the neutral position the
pressure can built as the temperature changes. I've come to the hanger
some days
and found the lines as high as 450 psi.

As Walter said, you should make sure you were shipped hydraulic hose and
not
fuel line from MAM, or you will be cleaning hydraulic fluid from weeping
rivets and overlaps for the next year. The stuff is like Corrosion X...or
even
better.

Bruce


---------- Digest Message #10 ----------
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:43:35 -0400
From: klehman@albedo.net
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

So what this thread is saying is that it would be worth installing a
pressure relief valve if using plastic hydraulic lines...
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

I can tell you, as I did earlier this winter that my hydraulic system does
not bleed down what so ever on my skis using the MAM pump. Howard's
amphibs
would stay at pressure all winter long in the hanger as well...so I kinda
wonder if you guys have internally leaking cylinders or check valves.
Just
a short park in the sun in -15c weather took the pressure from 100 to over
600psi shinning on my black stratoflex hoses. I'd left it a Zero after
that
and went into the hanger today +12 to find the pressure at 550psi! Sure
glad
I went with all solid (Stainless - only cause I had some preflared c/w
fittings that worked out) lines. Guess all I can say is YES, once you have
the airplane parked where you want it bleed to zero and check the gauge
often.

Wayne

snip



---------- Digest Message #11 ----------
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:52:27 -0400
From: klehman@albedo.net
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: Rebel tail tips

Jesse Jenks wrote:

Thanks for the tips on the tips Ken.
So did the guys that installed the tip rib with flanges outboard cut a
hole
in them to clear the hinge bolts? Don't know if I'm missing something
here.

Don't know but I'd guess that they did.

Also, why did you have to make your rudder tip longer, and in what
dimension
are you talking about?
Thanks.
Jesse

It was almost a half inch too short forward and aft. I've seen one Rebel
that was the same but he just slit the trailing edge so that the
trailing edge of the tip did not wrap around the rudder. All four other
tips were a perfect fit.

Ken




---------- Digest Message #12 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:56:16 EDT
From: wudoktor@aol.com
To: rebel-builders-d
Subject: Strontium Chromate primer - Sherwin williams

I may have used a similar epoxy primer

Sherwin Williams Aerospace Coating
meets MIL-P-23377F
two part mix
CMO724114 Adduct
and CMO724400 yellow primer

Apparently is a corrosion inhibitor and bonds pretty well to clean alum.
Wicks fairly well between riveted surfaces except for compressed contact
surfaces right under the rivet head.

Tony Wu N518R




---------- Digest Message #13 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:52:54 -0400
From: drewjan@cabletv.on.ca
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

Or just leave the selector in the up position. Then any pressure change
can
vent back to the tank. Just have to remember to change the lever and give
a
pump before moving. And hope some helpful lineperson doesn't decide to
move
your plane while you're gone.

At 10:43 PM 4/9/2005 -0400, you wrote:

So what this thread is saying is that it would be worth installing a
pressure relief valve if using plastic hydraulic lines...
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

I can tell you, as I did earlier this winter that my hydraulic system
does
not bleed down what so ever on my skis using the MAM pump. Howard's
amphibs
would stay at pressure all winter long in the hanger as well...so I kinda
wonder if you guys have internally leaking cylinders or check valves.
Just
a short park in the sun in -15c weather took the pressure from 100 to
over
600psi shinning on my black stratoflex hoses. I'd left it a Zero after
that
and went into the hanger today +12 to find the pressure at 550psi! Sure
glad
I went with all solid (Stainless - only cause I had some preflared c/w
fittings that worked out) lines. Guess all I can say is YES, once you
have
the airplane parked where you want it bleed to zero and check the gauge
often.

Wayne

snip





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Drew



---------- Digest Message #14 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:19:59 EDT
From: legeorgen@aol.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

"Or just leave the selector in the up position."


And make sure your nose gear is castered back and/or your PVC locks are on
or you will take a nose dive! Been there and done that too.


Bruce


---------- Digest Message #15 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:30:18 -0400
From: oifa@irishfield.on.ca
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

Even when put in the up position you are going to build pressure from
sun/temp on the other side of the system back to the hydraulic pump.
Putting
in neutral, as Walter does, only protects the line from the selector to
the
pump. Neutral is actually a locked postion so now you have pressure
building
in both the up and down lines as neither is now vented back to tank. The
only thing I use the neutral position for is removing lines... as very
little fluid loss since no air in means no fluid out.

Ken's probably hit the nail on the head...we probably should be teeing a
pressure relief valve, set at about 300 psi, into the line from the pump
to
the selector valve and then be sure to leave the selector either up or
down
to protect the entire system at all times.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

Or just leave the selector in the up position. Then any pressure change

can

vent back to the tank. Just have to remember to change the lever and give

a

pump before moving. And hope some helpful lineperson doesn't decide to

move

your plane while you're gone.

At 10:43 PM 4/9/2005 -0400, you wrote:

So what this thread is saying is that it would be worth installing a
pressure relief valve if using plastic hydraulic lines...
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

does

amphibs

kinda

Just

over

that

glad

have

snip





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Drew





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---------- Digest Message #16 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:10:42 -0700
From: walter.klatt@shaw.ca
To: rebel-builders
Subject: RE: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

I know mine does not hold pressure for any length of time, but
there are no external leaks. Has not been a problem for me, but I
just need to remember to pump up a couple of strokes prior to
take-off on water so my mains don't drag.

In fact, after reading this, I'm thinking I prefer some slight
internal leak through check valves, cylinder O rings or wherever
it is, so that I don't get any pressure build-ups in the heat. I
guess that's why I have never seen it on mine and no external
leaks. However, as I mentioned in a previous post, I do always
relieve pressure after cycling the gear and leave the selector in
neutral. I know some do it differently, but I think I'll stick
with my method, as it has served me well so far.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Drew Dalgleish
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 7:53 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320


Or just leave the selector in the up position. Then
any pressure change can
vent back to the tank. Just have to remember to change
the lever and give a
pump before moving. And hope some helpful lineperson
doesn't decide to move
your plane while you're gone.

At 10:43 PM 4/9/2005 -0400, you wrote:

So what this thread is saying is that it would be

worth installing a

pressure relief valve if using plastic hydraulic lines...
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

hydraulic system does

pump. Howard's amphibs

as well...so I kinda

cylinders or check valves. Just

pressure from 100 to over

left it a Zero after that

pressure at 550psi! Sure glad

some preflared c/w

is YES, once you have

and check the gauge

snip





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-----------
Drew





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---------- Digest Message #17 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:55:49 +0000
From: srwhitenect@hotmail.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Exhaust Support



Hi Guys
I made my own exhaust system for my Christavia which was a cross over with
straight pipes. I made a small plate (about 3" x 1 1/2") and matched the
two rear center bolt holes for the oil pan. I welded two 1/2 inch (about
10"
long) tubes each pointing down towards an exhaust pipe. I then took a
piece
of 3/8 tube and made an open ended triangle that that came down from
behind
the engine to one pipe-flattened out an area to clamp to the pipe- across
to
the other pipe-flattened area again and then up behind the engine again. A
small piece of 3/8 pipe was welded as a support about two inches away from
each corner that attaches to the exhaust tube. When this was completed and
fitted the two exhaust stacks without any load, it was disassembled and
the
two upper 3/8 tubes were slid into the 1/2 tubes (telescopic) and
reassembled. When it was all snug in place and under no load, the 3/8 and
1/2 tubes were welded. I don't think it weighted a pound and was out of
way
of everything I had installed. Put about 400 hours on this system before
I
put the aircraft away for storage, mostly on floats and have never had a
crack-knock on wood. Will be doing something similiar when I reach the
point
with my rebel. Can also use to support throttle- mixture- carb heat
cables.
Everything is isolated to the engine. Can't get any pictures for about
another month when I take the aircraft out of storage for Oshkosh.

Steve W.
Rebel #637



---------- Digest Message #18 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:25:22 -0400
From: klehman@albedo.net
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Elevator Trim direction/ flap position indicator

Todays silly question is which way are guys wiring the trim rocker
switch if installed on the instrument panel? Push the top to go nose
down or push the top to go nose up? If you think about a trim wheel or a
stick mounted trim switch then pushing the top for nose down makes
sense. Or you can just think of it as an up/down switch....

In case you think I'm totally nutty, the manufacturer supplies labelling
for either way:
http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/indsens.html

Also at the bottom of that page is a $30. position sensor that looks
like it could be used to feed one of their $77. position indicators if
someone with electric flaps wanted a panel mounted indicator.

Ken




---------- Digest Message #19 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:50:54 -0600
From: sa@mwutah.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: RE: Elevator Trim direction/ flap position indicator

Didn't some one say once that no questions are silly?

I suspect the majority will be push the top for nose down trim, bottom for
nose up.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 2:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Elevator Trim direction/ flap position indicator

Todays silly question is which way are guys wiring the trim rocker
switch if installed on the instrument panel? Push the top to go nose
down or push the top to go nose up? If you think about a trim wheel or a
stick mounted trim switch then pushing the top for nose down makes
sense. Or you can just think of it as an up/down switch....

In case you think I'm totally nutty, the manufacturer supplies labelling
for either way:
http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/indsens.html

Also at the bottom of that page is a $30. position sensor that looks
like it could be used to feed one of their $77. position indicators if
someone with electric flaps wanted a panel mounted indicator.

Ken






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---------- Digest Message #20 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:54:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: bowmanout@yahoo.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: RE: float hydro presure

hi,

thanks to all for the helpful info. we did not finish our float install
until mid october.
as a result, we are for the first time encountering high sun angles and
70+ degree temps.
we are learning quickly what not to do. with your help we will hopfully
not have to make any more landings with zero on the presure guage.

i am inclined to go with a relief valve. my short term solution was to put
together a repair kit with the correct wrenches, hydro fluid, and some
spare fittings.

tomorrow i hope to splash for the first time in 2005.

andy


---------------------------------
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---------- Digest Message #21 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:06:02 -0400
From: rgfisher@zeuter.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

hi guys thanks everyone for all the interesting coments i guess this
is
why this forum is sooooo valuable bob fisher
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 12:10 PM
Subject: RE: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

I know mine does not hold pressure for any length of time, but
there are no external leaks. Has not been a problem for me, but I
just need to remember to pump up a couple of strokes prior to
take-off on water so my mains don't drag.

In fact, after reading this, I'm thinking I prefer some slight
internal leak through check valves, cylinder O rings or wherever
it is, so that I don't get any pressure build-ups in the heat. I
guess that's why I have never seen it on mine and no external
leaks. However, as I mentioned in a previous post, I do always
relieve pressure after cycling the gear and leave the selector in
neutral. I know some do it differently, but I think I'll stick
with my method, as it has served me well so far.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Drew Dalgleish
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 7:53 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320


Or just leave the selector in the up position. Then
any pressure change can
vent back to the tank. Just have to remember to change
the lever and give a
pump before moving. And hope some helpful lineperson
doesn't decide to move
your plane while you're gone.

At 10:43 PM 4/9/2005 -0400, you wrote: worth installing a hydraulic system does pump. Howard's amphibs as well...so I kinda cylinders or check valves. Just pressure from 100 to over left it a Zero after that pressure at 550psi! Sure glad some preflared c/w is YES, once you have and check the gauge ----------- https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML -----------
Drew





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-------------------------------------------------------
----------

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----------


Welcome to the Rebel Builders List.

This mailing list is intended to provide an open
discussion forum for anyone interested in Murphy
Aircraft Ltd. Rebel series of aircraft. Whether
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some information.

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Thanks for information.Will scrap ideal off power flow.I do not want a noisy
aircraft either inside or outside.If i go with the speed cowl can i
practically install a exhaust with a muffler or do i have to go with tho
nose bowl cowling.

Thanks for information.Will scrap ideal off power flow.I do not want a

aircraft either inside or outside.If i go with the speed cowl can i
practically install a exhaust with a muffler or do i have to go with tho
nose bowl cowling.

Regards: Alvin
----- Original Message -----
From: "rebel-builders-d digest" <rebel-builders-d@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders-d@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:00 PM
Subject: DIGEST - rebel-builders-d

Digest of list: rebel-builders-d Total messages in digest: 21

1 Date : Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:17:54 -0700 (PDT)
From : bowmanout@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

2 Date : Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:06:55 -0400
From : rgfisher@zeuter.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

3 Date : Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:16:41 -0400
From : rebaker@sc.rr.com
Subject: Epoxy primer

4 Date : Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:30:24 -0700 (PDT)
From : bowmanout@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: nose gear back-up/foldup tubes

5 Date : Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:46:22 -0400
From : oifa@irishfield.on.ca
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

6 Date : Sat, 09 Apr 2005 19:00:47 -0700
From : walter.klatt@shaw.ca
Subject: RE: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

7 Date : Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:39:33 -0400
From : drewjan@cabletv.on.ca
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

8 Date : Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:44:25 -0800
From : mike.davis@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rotax 912s exhaust system

9 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 00:11:03 EDT
From : legeorgen@aol.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

10 Date : Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:43:35 -0400
From : klehman@albedo.net
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

11 Date : Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:52:27 -0400
From : klehman@albedo.net
Subject: Re: Rebel tail tips

12 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:56:16 EDT
From : wudoktor@aol.com
Subject: Strontium Chromate primer - Sherwin williams

13 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:52:54 -0400
From : drewjan@cabletv.on.ca
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

14 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:19:59 EDT
From : legeorgen@aol.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

15 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:30:18 -0400
From : oifa@irishfield.on.ca
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

16 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:10:42 -0700
From : walter.klatt@shaw.ca
Subject: RE: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

17 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:55:49 +0000
From : srwhitenect@hotmail.com
Subject: Exhaust Support

18 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:25:22 -0400
From : klehman@albedo.net
Subject: Elevator Trim direction/ flap position indicator

19 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:50:54 -0600
From : sa@mwutah.com
Subject: RE: Elevator Trim direction/ flap position indicator

20 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:54:43 -0700 (PDT)
From : bowmanout@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: float hydro presure

21 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:06:02 -0400
From : rgfisher@zeuter.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320


---------- Digest Message #1 ----------
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:17:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: bowmanout@yahoo.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320



hi,



My 0-320, 150 hp, non-dynafocal mount, engine built in 1956 came from a
money. it's model designation is 0320. there is no suffix. it is the

as an 0-320-a1 i think. you are probably correct that since the 60's

has not been an 0-320 mooney, but the logs that came with this freshly
overhauled 0-320 definitely say that it spent it's younger days flying
faster than it is now in my christavia mk=1.



almost all our lakes have become soft water, as opposed to ice in the

3 days. in fact i would have done my first 2005 water landing, but, i

hydraulic preassure after the plane sat on a blacktop ramp for 3 hours

70 degree temps. we finished our float install in oct so this was the
first warm high sun angle day she has sat out in.



question for the group???? do you release the preassure on you hydro in
these conditions? or do you park with nose wheels castered aft and leave
100lbs on the system??? that is what i did and one of the fittings

for those who have not done this, i took off with 0 preassure and landed
same. no problem. i do wish i'd brought the "backup" pvc locks for the
nose wheels, but i left them on my ramp so i would not forget to put

in when i backed the plane into the hangar. i decided to put the locks

and push it in frontwards when i got back to my hangar. i'll try to find
the problem tomorrow.



andy

1088 amphibs

christavia mk=1

mich


---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

---------- Digest Message #2 ----------
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:06:55 -0400
From: rgfisher@zeuter.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

hi andy i park with the nose gear pointing aft always then the
pressure can bleed off which it does and nothing happens

i`m going to make a set of the tubes that go over the rod on the

just for when i push backwards
what material did you use? aluminum tubing? how do you make sure it`s
out
before takoff?

bob fisher rebel 342 on 1800 amphibs parry sound ont


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Bowman" <bowmanout@yahoo.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

hi,



My 0-320, 150 hp, non-dynafocal mount, engine built in 1956 came from a

money. it's model designation is 0320. there is no suffix. it is the

as
an 0-320-a1 i think. you are probably correct that since the 60's there
has
not been an 0-320 mooney, but the logs that came with this freshly
overhauled 0-320 definitely say that it spent it's younger days flying
faster than it is now in my christavia mk=1.

almost all our lakes have become soft water, as opposed to ice in the
last

3 days. in fact i would have done my first 2005 water landing, but, i

hydraulic preassure after the plane sat on a blacktop ramp for 3 hours

70
degree temps. we finished our float install in oct so this was the first
warm high sun angle day she has sat out in.

question for the group???? do you release the preassure on you hydro in

these conditions? or do you park with nose wheels castered aft and leave
100lbs on the system??? that is what i did and one of the fittings

for those who have not done this, i took off with 0 preassure and landed
same. no problem. i do wish i'd brought the "backup" pvc locks for the
nose
wheels, but i left them on my ramp so i would not forget to put them in
when
i backed the plane into the hangar. i decided to put the locks in and

it in frontwards when i got back to my hangar. i'll try to find the
problem
tomorrow.

andy

1088 amphibs

christavia mk=1

mich


---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!



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---------- Digest Message #3 ----------
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:16:41 -0400
From: rebaker@sc.rr.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Epoxy primer

Wayne (and others):
The strontium chromate primer we use is covered by the following data.
It is two part epoxy and the thinner is the high humidity, blush
resistant type. One of the two companies mentioned bought the other
(don't remember which) but they should be able to cross reference.

Pratt & Lambert high solids epoxy thinner 110-059.
Pratt & Lambert epoxy primer curing agent P610421.
Sherwin Williams corrosion protective epoxy primer CM0483660.

The mix ratio is 2 resin to 1 curing agent. Mix throughly and wait 20
minutes. Then thin about 25% to spray.
Do not spray without a mask rated for this service! Read the mask
canister data and be sure.
Ralph Baker


---------- Digest Message #4 ----------
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:30:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: bowmanout@yahoo.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: nose gear back-up/foldup tubes

Hi Bob,

My partner, Clint, made the inserts out of pvc tubing, the idea came

someone on this list. they are slit open on the bottoms to a width that
allows them to snap on over/around the cylinder rods. to assist in
installation and removal, they have pcv handles glued to them at about a
70 degree angle. to avoid departure with them installed we painted them
red. we have flown with them installed before we ready to try inflight
retraction. no problems.

hope this helps.

Andy


---------------------------------
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---------- Digest Message #5 ----------
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:46:22 -0400
From: oifa@irishfield.on.ca
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

I can tell you, as I did earlier this winter that my hydraulic system

not bleed down what so ever on my skis using the MAM pump. Howard's
amphibs
would stay at pressure all winter long in the hanger as well...so I

wonder if you guys have internally leaking cylinders or check valves.
Just
a short park in the sun in -15c weather took the pressure from 100 to

600psi shinning on my black stratoflex hoses. I'd left it a Zero after
that
and went into the hanger today +12 to find the pressure at 550psi! Sure
glad
I went with all solid (Stainless - only cause I had some preflared c/w
fittings that worked out) lines. Guess all I can say is YES, once you

the airplane parked where you want it bleed to zero and check the gauge
often.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Fisher" <rgfisher@zeuter.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

hi andy i park with the nose gear pointing aft always then the
pressure can bleed off which it does and nothing happens

i`m going to make a set of the tubes that go over the rod on the

just for when i push backwards
what material did you use? aluminum tubing? how do you make sure

out

before takoff?

bob fisher rebel 342 on 1800 amphibs parry sound ont


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Bowman" <bowmanout@yahoo.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

money. it's model designation is 0320. there is no suffix. it is the

as

an 0-320-a1 i think. you are probably correct that since the 60's there

has

not been an 0-320 mooney, but the logs that came with this freshly
overhauled 0-320 definitely say that it spent it's younger days flying
faster than it is now in my christavia mk=1.

last

3 days. in fact i would have done my first 2005 water landing, but, i
lost
hydraulic preassure after the plane sat on a blacktop ramp for 3 hours

70

degree temps. we finished our float install in oct so this was the

warm high sun angle day she has sat out in.

these conditions? or do you park with nose wheels castered aft and

100lbs on the system??? that is what i did and one of the fittings
leaked.
for those who have not done this, i took off with 0 preassure and

same. no problem. i do wish i'd brought the "backup" pvc locks for the

nose

wheels, but i left them on my ramp so i would not forget to put them in

when

i backed the plane into the hangar. i decided to put the locks in and
push
it in frontwards when i got back to my hangar. i'll try to find the

problem

tomorrow.

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---------- Digest Message #6 ----------
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 19:00:47 -0700
From: walter.klatt@shaw.ca
To: rebel-builders
Subject: RE: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

My 0320 conical mount also has no suffix. I had it overhauled as
a non certified engine, so it probably doesn't resemble anything
now. It came set up for a constant speed, but I converted it for
FP. I always thought it originally came out of a Tri-Pacer.

I always release the pressure on the selector valve and keep it
in the neutral position after the gear is cycled up or down. That
way I don't put any pressure on the lines or fittings. Just
before take-off, I do have to pump them up again, so the wheels
don't drag in the water. I use the standard MAM lines, and no
problems so far. I actually preferred the clear lines, because I
could get all the air out of the system, without any messy
bleeding.

I only use the front locks when pulling it in the hangar. With
the wheels castered back as in the moving forward position, the
gear will not collapse, but if they are castered to the front as
when pulling back, they most certainly will. I use PVC pipe for
locks, cut just enough so they pop in place around the cylinder
shaft.

As for leaks, I did have some initially on some fittings, but
managed to fix them all. In some cases, I had to change the
little brass collar to a different style from a local automotive
shop, that worked better for me.

One thing to watch for, is make sure your rubber hose from the
pump to the selector valve is not fuel line as MAM apparently
shipped to some builders. Can't remember the exact PSI, but I
think mine was 600. Bruce G. would know as he found that out the
hard way, after we flew into a remote alpine lake last summer and
it sat there in the hot sun with his selector valve not in
neutral.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Andy Bowman
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 5:18 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320




hi,



My 0-320, 150 hp, non-dynafocal mount, engine built in
1956 came from a money. it's model designation is
0320. there is no suffix. it is the same as an
0-320-a1 i think. you are probably correct that since
the 60's there has not been an 0-320 mooney, but the
logs that came with this freshly overhauled 0-320
definitely say that it spent it's younger days flying
faster than it is now in my christavia mk=1.



almost all our lakes have become soft water, as
opposed to ice in the last 3 days. in fact i would
have done my first 2005 water landing, but, i lost
hydraulic preassure after the plane sat on a blacktop
ramp for 3 hours in 70 degree temps. we finished our
float install in oct so this was the first warm high
sun angle day she has sat out in.



question for the group???? do you release the
preassure on you hydro in these conditions? or do you
park with nose wheels castered aft and leave 100lbs on
the system??? that is what i did and one of the
fittings leaked. for those who have not done this, i
took off with 0 preassure and landed same. no problem.
i do wish i'd brought the "backup" pvc locks for the
nose wheels, but i left them on my ramp so i would not
forget to put them in when i backed the plane into the
hangar. i decided to put the locks in and push it in
frontwards when i got back to my hangar. i'll try to
find the problem tomorrow.



andy

1088 amphibs

christavia mk=1

mich


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!



-------------------------------------------------------
----------
List archives located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
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List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-------------------------------------------------------
----------

---------- Digest Message #7 ----------
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:39:33 -0400
From: drewjan@cabletv.on.ca
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

My hydraulic system loses pressure after about 10minutes I replaced the
lines with truck air brake lines and fittings I've also replaced both

pump check valves and there's no apparent leaks so at least one of my
cylinders must have an internal leak. I can live with it the way it is

I just have to remember to give a short stroke on the pump when on

Maybe a little bit of air in the system would keep the pressure from

too high when parked.

At 09:46 PM 4/9/2005 -0400, you wrote:

I can tell you, as I did earlier this winter that my hydraulic system

not bleed down what so ever on my skis using the MAM pump. Howard's
amphibs
would stay at pressure all winter long in the hanger as well...so I

wonder if you guys have internally leaking cylinders or check valves.
Just
a short park in the sun in -15c weather took the pressure from 100 to

600psi shinning on my black stratoflex hoses. I'd left it a Zero after
that
and went into the hanger today +12 to find the pressure at 550psi! Sure
glad
I went with all solid (Stainless - only cause I had some preflared c/w
fittings that worked out) lines. Guess all I can say is YES, once you

the airplane parked where you want it bleed to zero and check the gauge
often.

Wayne

Drew



---------- Digest Message #8 ----------
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:44:25 -0800
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: Rotax 912s exhaust system

Not sure what's happening Bruce... don't understand the the "can't

image" either... there isn't anything to display? Once you click the
upload
now button are you clicking on anything else? If so, you must not do
this... once you enter your file information and click upload now... you
need to wait until the screen shows upload successful. There is no
indication that anything is happening. Anyway, just send me the pics

a
description, and I'll take care of it. Oh, and while I prefer that pics
uploaded are 640x480, it's just to make them easy to view for everybody

the list. There are no limitations to what you upload.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: Rotax 912s exhaust system

Mike,

I know it has been awhile since I uploaded any pics but I have tried
several
times with the same resolute. After the upload is half complete I get

"can't display image" message. I reduced the file size using IrfanView
but it
doesn't seem to matter.

Bruce

---------- Digest Message #9 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 00:11:03 EDT
From: legeorgen@aol.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

I have found even with the selector valve in the neutral position the
pressure can built as the temperature changes. I've come to the hanger
some days
and found the lines as high as 450 psi.

As Walter said, you should make sure you were shipped hydraulic hose and
not
fuel line from MAM, or you will be cleaning hydraulic fluid from weeping
rivets and overlaps for the next year. The stuff is like Corrosion

even
better.

Bruce


---------- Digest Message #10 ----------
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:43:35 -0400
From: klehman@albedo.net
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

So what this thread is saying is that it would be worth installing a
pressure relief valve if using plastic hydraulic lines...
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

I can tell you, as I did earlier this winter that my hydraulic system

not bleed down what so ever on my skis using the MAM pump. Howard's
amphibs
would stay at pressure all winter long in the hanger as well...so I

wonder if you guys have internally leaking cylinders or check valves.
Just
a short park in the sun in -15c weather took the pressure from 100 to

600psi shinning on my black stratoflex hoses. I'd left it a Zero after
that
and went into the hanger today +12 to find the pressure at 550psi! Sure
glad
I went with all solid (Stainless - only cause I had some preflared c/w
fittings that worked out) lines. Guess all I can say is YES, once you

the airplane parked where you want it bleed to zero and check the gauge
often.

Wayne

snip



---------- Digest Message #11 ----------
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:52:27 -0400
From: klehman@albedo.net
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: Rebel tail tips

Jesse Jenks wrote:

Thanks for the tips on the tips Ken.
So did the guys that installed the tip rib with flanges outboard cut a
hole
in them to clear the hinge bolts? Don't know if I'm missing something
here.

Don't know but I'd guess that they did.

Also, why did you have to make your rudder tip longer, and in what
dimension
are you talking about?
Thanks.
Jesse

It was almost a half inch too short forward and aft. I've seen one Rebel
that was the same but he just slit the trailing edge so that the
trailing edge of the tip did not wrap around the rudder. All four other
tips were a perfect fit.

Ken




---------- Digest Message #12 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:56:16 EDT
From: wudoktor@aol.com
To: rebel-builders-d
Subject: Strontium Chromate primer - Sherwin williams

I may have used a similar epoxy primer

Sherwin Williams Aerospace Coating
meets MIL-P-23377F
two part mix
CMO724114 Adduct
and CMO724400 yellow primer

Apparently is a corrosion inhibitor and bonds pretty well to clean

Wicks fairly well between riveted surfaces except for compressed

surfaces right under the rivet head.

Tony Wu N518R




---------- Digest Message #13 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:52:54 -0400
From: drewjan@cabletv.on.ca
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

Or just leave the selector in the up position. Then any pressure change
can
vent back to the tank. Just have to remember to change the lever and

a
pump before moving. And hope some helpful lineperson doesn't decide to
move
your plane while you're gone.

At 10:43 PM 4/9/2005 -0400, you wrote:

So what this thread is saying is that it would be worth installing a
pressure relief valve if using plastic hydraulic lines...
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

snip





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Drew



---------- Digest Message #14 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:19:59 EDT
From: legeorgen@aol.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

"Or just leave the selector in the up position."


And make sure your nose gear is castered back and/or your PVC locks are

or you will take a nose dive! Been there and done that too.


Bruce


---------- Digest Message #15 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:30:18 -0400
From: oifa@irishfield.on.ca
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

Even when put in the up position you are going to build pressure from
sun/temp on the other side of the system back to the hydraulic pump.
Putting
in neutral, as Walter does, only protects the line from the selector to
the
pump. Neutral is actually a locked postion so now you have pressure
building
in both the up and down lines as neither is now vented back to tank. The
only thing I use the neutral position for is removing lines... as very
little fluid loss since no air in means no fluid out.

Ken's probably hit the nail on the head...we probably should be teeing a
pressure relief valve, set at about 300 psi, into the line from the pump
to
the selector valve and then be sure to leave the selector either up or
down
to protect the entire system at all times.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

Or just leave the selector in the up position. Then any pressure change

can

vent back to the tank. Just have to remember to change the lever and

a

pump before moving. And hope some helpful lineperson doesn't decide to

move

your plane while you're gone.

At 10:43 PM 4/9/2005 -0400, you wrote:

does

amphibs

kinda

Just

over

that

glad

have

Drew





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---------- Digest Message #16 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:10:42 -0700
From: walter.klatt@shaw.ca
To: rebel-builders
Subject: RE: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

I know mine does not hold pressure for any length of time, but
there are no external leaks. Has not been a problem for me, but I
just need to remember to pump up a couple of strokes prior to
take-off on water so my mains don't drag.

In fact, after reading this, I'm thinking I prefer some slight
internal leak through check valves, cylinder O rings or wherever
it is, so that I don't get any pressure build-ups in the heat. I
guess that's why I have never seen it on mine and no external
leaks. However, as I mentioned in a previous post, I do always
relieve pressure after cycling the gear and leave the selector in
neutral. I know some do it differently, but I think I'll stick
with my method, as it has served me well so far.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Drew Dalgleish
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 7:53 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320


Or just leave the selector in the up position. Then
any pressure change can
vent back to the tank. Just have to remember to change
the lever and give a
pump before moving. And hope some helpful lineperson
doesn't decide to move
your plane while you're gone.

At 10:43 PM 4/9/2005 -0400, you wrote: worth installing a hydraulic system does pump. Howard's amphibs as well...so I kinda cylinders or check valves. Just pressure from 100 to over left it a Zero after that pressure at 550psi! Sure glad some preflared c/w is YES, once you have and check the gauge ----------- https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML -----------
Drew





-------------------------------------------------------
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----------

---------- Digest Message #17 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:55:49 +0000
From: srwhitenect@hotmail.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Exhaust Support



Hi Guys
I made my own exhaust system for my Christavia which was a cross over

straight pipes. I made a small plate (about 3" x 1 1/2") and matched

two rear center bolt holes for the oil pan. I welded two 1/2 inch (about
10"
long) tubes each pointing down towards an exhaust pipe. I then took a
piece
of 3/8 tube and made an open ended triangle that that came down from
behind
the engine to one pipe-flattened out an area to clamp to the pipe-

to
the other pipe-flattened area again and then up behind the engine again.

small piece of 3/8 pipe was welded as a support about two inches away

each corner that attaches to the exhaust tube. When this was completed

fitted the two exhaust stacks without any load, it was disassembled and
the
two upper 3/8 tubes were slid into the 1/2 tubes (telescopic) and
reassembled. When it was all snug in place and under no load, the 3/8

1/2 tubes were welded. I don't think it weighted a pound and was out of
way
of everything I had installed. Put about 400 hours on this system

I
put the aircraft away for storage, mostly on floats and have never had a
crack-knock on wood. Will be doing something similiar when I reach the
point
with my rebel. Can also use to support throttle- mixture- carb heat
cables.
Everything is isolated to the engine. Can't get any pictures for about
another month when I take the aircraft out of storage for Oshkosh.

Steve W.
Rebel #637



---------- Digest Message #18 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:25:22 -0400
From: klehman@albedo.net
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Elevator Trim direction/ flap position indicator

Todays silly question is which way are guys wiring the trim rocker
switch if installed on the instrument panel? Push the top to go nose
down or push the top to go nose up? If you think about a trim wheel or a
stick mounted trim switch then pushing the top for nose down makes
sense. Or you can just think of it as an up/down switch....

In case you think I'm totally nutty, the manufacturer supplies labelling
for either way:
http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/indsens.html

Also at the bottom of that page is a $30. position sensor that looks
like it could be used to feed one of their $77. position indicators if
someone with electric flaps wanted a panel mounted indicator.

Ken




---------- Digest Message #19 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:50:54 -0600
From: sa@mwutah.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: RE: Elevator Trim direction/ flap position indicator

Didn't some one say once that no questions are silly?

I suspect the majority will be push the top for nose down trim, bottom

nose up.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of

Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 2:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Elevator Trim direction/ flap position indicator

Todays silly question is which way are guys wiring the trim rocker
switch if installed on the instrument panel? Push the top to go nose
down or push the top to go nose up? If you think about a trim wheel or

stick mounted trim switch then pushing the top for nose down makes
sense. Or you can just think of it as an up/down switch....

In case you think I'm totally nutty, the manufacturer supplies

for either way:
http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/indsens.html

Also at the bottom of that page is a $30. position sensor that looks
like it could be used to feed one of their $77. position indicators if
someone with electric flaps wanted a panel mounted indicator.

Ken






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---------- Digest Message #20 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:54:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: bowmanout@yahoo.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: RE: float hydro presure

hi,

thanks to all for the helpful info. we did not finish our float install
until mid october.
as a result, we are for the first time encountering high sun angles and
70+ degree temps.
we are learning quickly what not to do. with your help we will hopfully
not have to make any more landings with zero on the presure guage.

i am inclined to go with a relief valve. my short term solution was to

together a repair kit with the correct wrenches, hydro fluid, and some
spare fittings.

tomorrow i hope to splash for the first time in 2005.

andy


---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

---------- Digest Message #21 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:06:02 -0400
From: rgfisher@zeuter.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

hi guys thanks everyone for all the interesting coments i guess

is
why this forum is sooooo valuable bob fisher
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 12:10 PM
Subject: RE: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

I know mine does not hold pressure for any length of time, but
there are no external leaks. Has not been a problem for me, but I
just need to remember to pump up a couple of strokes prior to
take-off on water so my mains don't drag.

In fact, after reading this, I'm thinking I prefer some slight
internal leak through check valves, cylinder O rings or wherever
it is, so that I don't get any pressure build-ups in the heat. I
guess that's why I have never seen it on mine and no external
leaks. However, as I mentioned in a previous post, I do always
relieve pressure after cycling the gear and leave the selector in
neutral. I know some do it differently, but I think I'll stick
with my method, as it has served me well so far.

Walter


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-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Angus McKenzie
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 8:57 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Power flow exhaust:


Just a quick comment.
I was able to get a local shop (a friend of John
Goris')to build me a new
exhaust of 2" stainless exhaust system. 1-3/4" is
stock Lycoming. This shop
does sanitary piping in commercial dairies , cheese
factories and the like.
All of the pipe segments are cut from mandrel bends
and purge welded, TIG.

Two friends,one from Leavens and one from Leggats had
involvement in the
construction of our 0-320-A2B. It has some performance
extras including
+.010 0-360 pistons and big valves. Both of these
mechanics felt that
performance would benefit from the larger exhaust. My
friend from Leggats
lent me an 0-320 core engine/cylinders. I took in that
core with my old MAM
mild steel cross-over exhaust and a new set of 4
stainless exhaust flange
blanks and ,viola, new pipes,an exact duplication
including flange rings for
the heat muffs, slip joints on the cross-over,etc.

This system has no muffler and mounts only on the
exhaust studs, only has
100hrs on it from last year, no cracks, good
performance and a distinctive
sound. I am very pleased with it. It is a shame to
have to cover the fine
welding and outstanding craftsmanship with the engine
cowl as they look so
nice...............Angus

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alvin and Glenys Adams"
<gander.electrical@nf.sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders-d@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:46 PM
Subject: Power flow exhaust:

Thanks for information.Will scrap ideal off power

flow.I do not want a
noisy

aircraft either inside or outside.If i go with the

speed cowl can i

practically install a exhaust with a muffler or do i

have to go with tho

nose bowl cowling.

Regards: Alvin
----- Original Message -----
From: "rebel-builders-d digest" <rebel-builders-d@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders-d@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:00 PM
Subject: DIGEST - rebel-builders-d

Digest of list: rebel-builders-d Total messages

in digest: 21

1 Date : Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:17:54 -0700 (PDT)
From : bowmanout@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

2 Date : Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:06:55 -0400
From : rgfisher@zeuter.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

3 Date : Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:16:41 -0400
From : rebaker@sc.rr.com
Subject: Epoxy primer

4 Date : Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:30:24 -0700 (PDT)
From : bowmanout@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: nose gear back-up/foldup tubes

5 Date : Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:46:22 -0400
From : oifa@irishfield.on.ca
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

6 Date : Sat, 09 Apr 2005 19:00:47 -0700
From : walter.klatt@shaw.ca
Subject: RE: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

7 Date : Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:39:33 -0400
From : drewjan@cabletv.on.ca
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

8 Date : Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:44:25 -0800
From : mike.davis@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rotax 912s exhaust system

9 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 00:11:03 EDT
From : legeorgen@aol.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

10 Date : Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:43:35 -0400
From : klehman@albedo.net
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

11 Date : Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:52:27 -0400
From : klehman@albedo.net
Subject: Re: Rebel tail tips

12 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:56:16 EDT
From : wudoktor@aol.com
Subject: Strontium Chromate primer - Sherwin williams

13 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:52:54 -0400
From : drewjan@cabletv.on.ca
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

14 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:19:59 EDT
From : legeorgen@aol.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

15 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:30:18 -0400
From : oifa@irishfield.on.ca
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

16 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:10:42 -0700
From : walter.klatt@shaw.ca
Subject: RE: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

17 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:55:49 +0000
From : srwhitenect@hotmail.com
Subject: Exhaust Support

18 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:25:22 -0400
From : klehman@albedo.net
Subject: Elevator Trim direction/ flap

position indicator

19 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:50:54 -0600
From : sa@mwutah.com
Subject: RE: Elevator Trim direction/ flap

position indicator

20 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:54:43 -0700 (PDT)
From : bowmanout@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: float hydro presure

21 Date : Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:06:02 -0400
From : rgfisher@zeuter.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320


---------- Digest Message #1 ----------
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:17:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: bowmanout@yahoo.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320



hi,



My 0-320, 150 hp, non-dynafocal mount, engine

built in 1956 came from a

money. it's model designation is 0320. there is no

suffix. it is the
same

as an 0-320-a1 i think. you are probably correct

that since the 60's
there

has not been an 0-320 mooney, but the logs that

came with this freshly

overhauled 0-320 definitely say that it spent it's

younger days flying

faster than it is now in my christavia mk=1.



almost all our lakes have become soft water, as

opposed to ice in the
last

3 days. in fact i would have done my first 2005

water landing, but, i
lost

hydraulic preassure after the plane sat on a

blacktop ramp for 3 hours
in

70 degree temps. we finished our float install in

oct so this was the

first warm high sun angle day she has sat out in.



question for the group???? do you release the

preassure on you hydro in

these conditions? or do you park with nose wheels

castered aft and leave

100lbs on the system??? that is what i did and one

of the fittings
leaked.

for those who have not done this, i took off with

0 preassure and landed

same. no problem. i do wish i'd brought the

"backup" pvc locks for the

nose wheels, but i left them on my ramp so i would

not forget to put
them

in when i backed the plane into the hangar. i

decided to put the locks
in

and push it in frontwards when i got back to my

hangar. i'll try to find

the problem tomorrow.



andy

1088 amphibs

christavia mk=1

mich


---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

---------- Digest Message #2 ----------
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:06:55 -0400
From: rgfisher@zeuter.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

hi andy i park with the nose gear pointing aft

always then the

pressure can bleed off which it does and

nothing happens

i`m going to make a set of the tubes that go over

the rod on the
cylinder

just for when i push backwards
what material did you use? aluminum tubing? how

do you make sure it`s

out
before takoff?

bob fisher rebel 342 on 1800 amphibs parry sound ont


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Bowman" <bowmanout@yahoo.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

built in 1956 came from a

money. it's model designation is 0320. there is no

suffix. it is the
same

as
an 0-320-a1 i think. you are probably correct that

since the 60's there

has
not been an 0-320 mooney, but the logs that came

with this freshly

overhauled 0-320 definitely say that it spent it's

younger days flying

faster than it is now in my christavia mk=1.

opposed to ice in the

3 days. in fact i would have done my first 2005

water landing, but, i
lost

hydraulic preassure after the plane sat on a

blacktop ramp for 3 hours
in

70
degree temps. we finished our float install in oct

so this was the first

warm high sun angle day she has sat out in.

preassure on you hydro in

these conditions? or do you park with nose wheels

castered aft and leave

100lbs on the system??? that is what i did and one

of the fittings
leaked.

for those who have not done this, i took off with

0 preassure and landed

same. no problem. i do wish i'd brought the

"backup" pvc locks for the

nose
wheels, but i left them on my ramp so i would not

forget to put them in

when
i backed the plane into the hangar. i decided to

put the locks in and
push

it in frontwards when i got back to my hangar.

i'll try to find the

problem
tomorrow.

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---------- Digest Message #3 ----------
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:16:41 -0400
From: rebaker@sc.rr.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Epoxy primer

Wayne (and others):
The strontium chromate primer we use is covered by

the following data.

It is two part epoxy and the thinner is the high

humidity, blush

resistant type. One of the two companies

mentioned bought the other

(don't remember which) but they should be able to

cross reference.

Pratt & Lambert high solids epoxy thinner 110-059.
Pratt & Lambert epoxy primer curing agent P610421.
Sherwin Williams corrosion protective epoxy primer

CM0483660.

The mix ratio is 2 resin to 1 curing agent. Mix

throughly and wait 20

minutes. Then thin about 25% to spray.
Do not spray without a mask rated for this

service! Read the mask

canister data and be sure.
Ralph Baker


---------- Digest Message #4 ----------
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:30:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: bowmanout@yahoo.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: nose gear back-up/foldup tubes

Hi Bob,

My partner, Clint, made the inserts out of pvc

tubing, the idea came
from

someone on this list. they are slit open on the

bottoms to a width that

allows them to snap on over/around the cylinder

rods. to assist in

installation and removal, they have pcv handles

glued to them at about a

70 degree angle. to avoid departure with them

installed we painted them

red. we have flown with them installed before we

ready to try inflight

retraction. no problems.

hope this helps.

Andy


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

---------- Digest Message #5 ----------
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:46:22 -0400
From: oifa@irishfield.on.ca
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

I can tell you, as I did earlier this winter that

my hydraulic system
does

not bleed down what so ever on my skis using the

MAM pump. Howard's

amphibs
would stay at pressure all winter long in the

hanger as well...so I
kinda

wonder if you guys have internally leaking

cylinders or check valves.

Just
a short park in the sun in -15c weather took the

pressure from 100 to
over

600psi shinning on my black stratoflex hoses. I'd

left it a Zero after

that
and went into the hanger today +12 to find the

pressure at 550psi! Sure

glad
I went with all solid (Stainless - only cause I

had some preflared c/w

fittings that worked out) lines. Guess all I can

say is YES, once you
have

the airplane parked where you want it bleed to

zero and check the gauge

often.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Fisher" <rgfisher@zeuter.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

always then the

nothing happens

the rod on the
cylinder

how do you make sure
it`s

out

built in 1956 came from
a

no suffix. it is the
same

as

that since the 60's there

has

with this freshly

it's younger days flying

opposed to ice in the

last

water landing, but, i

blacktop ramp for 3 hours
in

70

oct so this was the
first

preassure on you hydro
in

castered aft and
leave

one of the fittings

0 preassure and
landed

"backup" pvc locks for the

nose

forget to put them in

when

put the locks in and

i'll try to find the

problem

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----------

---------- Digest Message #6 ----------
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 19:00:47 -0700
From: walter.klatt@shaw.ca
To: rebel-builders
Subject: RE: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

My 0320 conical mount also has no suffix. I had it

overhauled as

a non certified engine, so it probably doesn't

resemble anything

now. It came set up for a constant speed, but I

converted it for

FP. I always thought it originally came out of a Tri-Pacer.

I always release the pressure on the selector

valve and keep it

in the neutral position after the gear is cycled

up or down. That

way I don't put any pressure on the lines or fittings. Just
before take-off, I do have to pump them up again,

so the wheels

don't drag in the water. I use the standard MAM

lines, and no

problems so far. I actually preferred the clear

lines, because I

could get all the air out of the system, without any messy
bleeding.

I only use the front locks when pulling it in the

hangar. With

the wheels castered back as in the moving forward

position, the

gear will not collapse, but if they are castered

to the front as

when pulling back, they most certainly will. I use

PVC pipe for

locks, cut just enough so they pop in place around

the cylinder

shaft.

As for leaks, I did have some initially on some

fittings, but

managed to fix them all. In some cases, I had to change the
little brass collar to a different style from a

local automotive

shop, that worked better for me.

One thing to watch for, is make sure your rubber

hose from the

pump to the selector valve is not fuel line as MAM

apparently

shipped to some builders. Can't remember the exact

PSI, but I

think mine was 600. Bruce G. would know as he

found that out the

hard way, after we flew into a remote alpine lake

last summer and

it sat there in the hot sun with his selector valve not in
neutral.

Walter
---------- Digest Message #7 ----------
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:39:33 -0400
From: drewjan@cabletv.on.ca
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

My hydraulic system loses pressure after about

10minutes I replaced the

lines with truck air brake lines and fittings I've

also replaced both
the

pump check valves and there's no apparent leaks so

at least one of my

cylinders must have an internal leak. I can live

with it the way it is
now

I just have to remember to give a short stroke on

the pump when on
final.

Maybe a little bit of air in the system would keep

the pressure from
going

too high when parked.

At 09:46 PM 4/9/2005 -0400, you wrote:

my hydraulic system
does

MAM pump. Howard's

hanger as well...so I
kinda

cylinders or check valves.

pressure from 100 to
over

left it a Zero after

pressure at 550psi! Sure

had some preflared c/w

say is YES, once you
have

zero and check the gauge

Drew



---------- Digest Message #8 ----------
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:44:25 -0800
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: Rotax 912s exhaust system

Not sure what's happening Bruce... don't

understand the the "can't
display

image" either... there isn't anything to display?

Once you click the

upload
now button are you clicking on anything else? If

so, you must not do

this... once you enter your file information and

click upload now... you

need to wait until the screen shows upload

successful. There is no

indication that anything is happening. Anyway,

just send me the pics
and

a
description, and I'll take care of it. Oh, and

while I prefer that pics

uploaded are 640x480, it's just to make them easy

to view for everybody
on

the list. There are no limitations to what you upload.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: Rotax 912s exhaust system

pics but I have tried

half complete I get
a

size using IrfanView

---------- Digest Message #9 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 00:11:03 EDT
From: legeorgen@aol.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

I have found even with the selector valve in the

neutral position the

pressure can built as the temperature changes.

I've come to the hanger

some days
and found the lines as high as 450 psi.

As Walter said, you should make sure you were

shipped hydraulic hose and

not
fuel line from MAM, or you will be cleaning

hydraulic fluid from weeping

rivets and overlaps for the next year. The stuff

is like Corrosion
X...or

even
better.

Bruce


---------- Digest Message #10 ----------
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:43:35 -0400
From: klehman@albedo.net
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

So what this thread is saying is that it would be

worth installing a

pressure relief valve if using plastic hydraulic lines...
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

my hydraulic system
does

MAM pump. Howard's

hanger as well...so I
kinda

cylinders or check valves.

pressure from 100 to
over

left it a Zero after

pressure at 550psi! Sure

had some preflared c/w

say is YES, once you
have

zero and check the gauge

snip



---------- Digest Message #11 ----------
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:52:27 -0400
From: klehman@albedo.net
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: Rebel tail tips

Jesse Jenks wrote:

flanges outboard cut a

I'm missing something

Don't know but I'd guess that they did.

longer, and in what

It was almost a half inch too short forward and

aft. I've seen one Rebel

that was the same but he just slit the trailing

edge so that the

trailing edge of the tip did not wrap around the

rudder. All four other

tips were a perfect fit.

Ken




---------- Digest Message #12 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:56:16 EDT
From: wudoktor@aol.com
To: rebel-builders-d
Subject: Strontium Chromate primer - Sherwin williams

I may have used a similar epoxy primer

Sherwin Williams Aerospace Coating
meets MIL-P-23377F
two part mix
CMO724114 Adduct
and CMO724400 yellow primer

Apparently is a corrosion inhibitor and bonds

pretty well to clean
alum.

Wicks fairly well between riveted surfaces except

for compressed
contact

surfaces right under the rivet head.

Tony Wu N518R




---------- Digest Message #13 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:52:54 -0400
From: drewjan@cabletv.on.ca
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

Or just leave the selector in the up position.

Then any pressure change

can
vent back to the tank. Just have to remember to

change the lever and
give

a
pump before moving. And hope some helpful

lineperson doesn't decide to

move
your plane while you're gone.

At 10:43 PM 4/9/2005 -0400, you wrote:

worth installing a

my hydraulic system

MAM pump. Howard's

hanger as well...so I
kinda

cylinders or check valves.

pressure from 100 to

left it a Zero after

pressure at 550psi! Sure

had some preflared c/w

say is YES, once you

zero and check the gauge

-----------------------------------------------------

------------

https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML

-----------------------------------------------------

------------

Drew



---------- Digest Message #14 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:19:59 EDT
From: legeorgen@aol.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

"Or just leave the selector in the up position."


And make sure your nose gear is castered back

and/or your PVC locks are
on

or you will take a nose dive! Been there and done that too.


Bruce


---------- Digest Message #15 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:30:18 -0400
From: oifa@irishfield.on.ca
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

Even when put in the up position you are going to

build pressure from

sun/temp on the other side of the system back to

the hydraulic pump.

Putting
in neutral, as Walter does, only protects the line

from the selector to

the
pump. Neutral is actually a locked postion so now

you have pressure

building
in both the up and down lines as neither is now

vented back to tank. The

only thing I use the neutral position for is

removing lines... as very

little fluid loss since no air in means no fluid out.

Ken's probably hit the nail on the head...we

probably should be teeing a

pressure relief valve, set at about 300 psi, into

the line from the pump

to
the selector valve and then be sure to leave the

selector either up or

down
to protect the entire system at all times.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

Then any pressure change

can

change the lever and
give

a

lineperson doesn't decide to

move

be worth installing a

that my hydraulic system

does

the MAM pump. Howard's

amphibs

hanger as well...so I

kinda

cylinders or check
valves.

Just

the pressure from 100 to

over

I'd left it a Zero
after

that

pressure at 550psi!
Sure

glad

had some preflared
c/w

can say is YES, once you

have

zero and check the
gauge

------------------------------------------------------

-----------

https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML

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-----------

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----------

---------- Digest Message #16 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:10:42 -0700
From: walter.klatt@shaw.ca
To: rebel-builders
Subject: RE: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

I know mine does not hold pressure for any length

of time, but

there are no external leaks. Has not been a

problem for me, but I

just need to remember to pump up a couple of

strokes prior to

take-off on water so my mains don't drag.

In fact, after reading this, I'm thinking I prefer

some slight

internal leak through check valves, cylinder O

rings or wherever

it is, so that I don't get any pressure build-ups

in the heat. I

guess that's why I have never seen it on mine and

no external

leaks. However, as I mentioned in a previous post,

I do always

relieve pressure after cycling the gear and leave

the selector in

neutral. I know some do it differently, but I

think I'll stick

with my method, as it has served me well so far.

Walter
---------- Digest Message #17 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:55:49 +0000
From: srwhitenect@hotmail.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Exhaust Support



Hi Guys
I made my own exhaust system for my Christavia

which was a cross over
with

straight pipes. I made a small plate (about 3" x

1 1/2") and matched
the

two rear center bolt holes for the oil pan. I

welded two 1/2 inch (about

10"
long) tubes each pointing down towards an exhaust

pipe. I then took a

piece
of 3/8 tube and made an open ended triangle that

that came down from

behind
the engine to one pipe-flattened out an area to

clamp to the pipe-
across

to
the other pipe-flattened area again and then up

behind the engine again.
A

small piece of 3/8 pipe was welded as a support

about two inches away
from

each corner that attaches to the exhaust tube.

When this was completed
and

fitted the two exhaust stacks without any load, it

was disassembled and

the
two upper 3/8 tubes were slid into the 1/2 tubes

(telescopic) and

reassembled. When it was all snug in place and

under no load, the 3/8
and

1/2 tubes were welded. I don't think it weighted a

pound and was out of

way
of everything I had installed. Put about 400

hours on this system
before

I
put the aircraft away for storage, mostly on

floats and have never had a

crack-knock on wood. Will be doing something

similiar when I reach the

point
with my rebel. Can also use to support throttle-

mixture- carb heat

cables.
Everything is isolated to the engine. Can't get

any pictures for about

another month when I take the aircraft out of

storage for Oshkosh.

Steve W.
Rebel #637



---------- Digest Message #18 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:25:22 -0400
From: klehman@albedo.net
To: rebel-builders
Subject: Elevator Trim direction/ flap position indicator

Todays silly question is which way are guys wiring

the trim rocker

switch if installed on the instrument panel? Push

the top to go nose

down or push the top to go nose up? If you think

about a trim wheel or a

stick mounted trim switch then pushing the top for

nose down makes

sense. Or you can just think of it as an up/down switch....

In case you think I'm totally nutty, the

manufacturer supplies labelling

for either way:
http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/indsens.html

Also at the bottom of that page is a $30. position

sensor that looks

like it could be used to feed one of their $77.

position indicators if

someone with electric flaps wanted a panel mounted

indicator.

Ken




---------- Digest Message #19 ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:50:54 -0600
From: sa@mwutah.com
To: rebel-builders
Subject: RE: Elevator Trim direction/ flap

position indicator

Didn't some one say once that no questions are silly?

I suspect the majority will be push the top for

nose down trim, bottom
for

nose up.

Scott

[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Ken

wiring the trim rocker

the top to go nose

about a trim wheel or
a

for nose down makes

switch....

manufacturer supplies
labelling

position sensor that looks

position indicators if

mounted indicator.

-------------------------------------------------------
----------

username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com

[/quote:7

Angus, did you notice an increase in performance when you went
from your old MAM mild steel exhaust to your new one?

And what did you do with your old exhaust?

I still use the old MAM mild steel exhaust on mine and have 320
hours on them so far. I did have the right ones welded in the Y
where the cross over joins, because I initially didn't have them
supported properly at the tail pipes end. However, I don't expect
them to last too much longer and either need another spare set,
or buy the new SS that most Rebels are using these days.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Angus McKenzie
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 8:57 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Power flow exhaust:


Just a quick comment.
I was able to get a local shop (a friend of John
Goris')to build me a new
exhaust of 2" stainless exhaust system. 1-3/4" is
stock Lycoming. This shop
does sanitary piping in commercial dairies , cheese
factories and the like.
All of the pipe segments are cut from mandrel bends
and purge welded, TIG.

Two friends,one from Leavens and one from Leggats had
involvement in the
construction of our 0-320-A2B. It has some performance
extras including
+.010 0-360 pistons and big valves. Both of these
mechanics felt that
performance would benefit from the larger exhaust. My
friend from Leggats
lent me an 0-320 core engine/cylinders. I took in that
core with my old MAM
mild steel cross-over exhaust and a new set of 4
stainless exhaust flange
blanks and ,viola, new pipes,an exact duplication
including flange rings for
the heat muffs, slip joints on the cross-over,etc.

This system has no muffler and mounts only on the
exhaust studs, only has
100hrs on it from last year, no cracks, good
performance and a distinctive
sound. I am very pleased with it. It is a shame to
have to cover the fine
welding and outstanding craftsmanship with the engine
cowl as they look so
nice...............Angus

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alvin and Glenys Adams"
<gander.electrical@nf.sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders-d@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:46 PM
Subject: Power flow exhaust:

Thanks for information.Will scrap ideal off power

flow.I do not want a
noisy

aircraft either inside or outside.If i go with the

speed cowl can i

practically install a exhaust with a muffler or do i

have to go with tho

nose bowl cowling.

Regards: Alvin
----- Original Message -----
From: "rebel-builders-d digest" <rebel-builders-d@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders-d@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:00 PM
Subject: DIGEST - rebel-builders-d

in digest: 21

position indicator

position indicator

built in 1956 came from a

suffix. it is the
same

that since the 60's
there

came with this freshly

younger days flying

opposed to ice in the
last

water landing, but, i
lost

blacktop ramp for 3 hours
in

oct so this was the

preassure on you hydro in

castered aft and leave

of the fittings
leaked.

0 preassure and landed

"backup" pvc locks for the

not forget to put
them

decided to put the locks
in

hangar. i'll try to find

always then the

nothing happens

the rod on the
cylinder

do you make sure it`s

built in 1956 came from a

suffix. it is the
same

since the 60's there

with this freshly

younger days flying

opposed to ice in the

water landing, but, i
lost

blacktop ramp for 3 hours
in

so this was the first

preassure on you hydro in

castered aft and leave

of the fittings
leaked.

0 preassure and landed

"backup" pvc locks for the

forget to put them in

put the locks in and
push

i'll try to find the

-------------------------------------------------------
----------

https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML

-------------------------------------------------------
----------

the following data.

humidity, blush

mentioned bought the other

cross reference.

CM0483660.

throughly and wait 20

service! Read the mask

tubing, the idea came
from

bottoms to a width that

rods. to assist in

glued to them at about a

installed we painted them

ready to try inflight

my hydraulic system
does

MAM pump. Howard's

hanger as well...so I
kinda

cylinders or check valves.

pressure from 100 to
over

left it a Zero after

pressure at 550psi! Sure

had some preflared c/w

say is YES, once you
have

zero and check the gauge

always then the

nothing happens

the rod on the
cylinder

how do you make sure
it`s

built in 1956 came from
a

no suffix. it is the
same

that since the 60's there

with this freshly

it's younger days flying

opposed to ice in the

water landing, but, i

blacktop ramp for 3 hours
in

oct so this was the
first

preassure on you hydro
in

castered aft and
leave

one of the fittings

0 preassure and
landed

"backup" pvc locks for the

forget to put them in

put the locks in and

i'll try to find the

-------------------------------------------------------
----------

https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML

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----------
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----------

https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML

-------------------------------------------------------
----------

overhauled as

resemble anything

converted it for

valve and keep it

up or down. That

so the wheels

lines, and no

lines, because I

hangar. With

position, the

to the front as

PVC pipe for

the cylinder

fittings, but

local automotive

hose from the

apparently

PSI, but I

found that out the

last summer and

10minutes I replaced the

also replaced both
the

at least one of my

with it the way it is
now

the pump when on
final.

the pressure from
going

my hydraulic system
does

MAM pump. Howard's

hanger as well...so I
kinda

cylinders or check valves.

pressure from 100 to
over

left it a Zero after

pressure at 550psi! Sure

had some preflared c/w

say is YES, once you
have

zero and check the gauge

understand the the "can't
display

Once you click the

so, you must not do

click upload now... you

successful. There is no

just send me the pics
and

while I prefer that pics

to view for everybody
on

pics but I have tried

half complete I get
a

size using IrfanView

neutral position the

I've come to the hanger

shipped hydraulic hose and

hydraulic fluid from weeping

is like Corrosion
X...or

worth installing a

my hydraulic system
does

MAM pump. Howard's

hanger as well...so I
kinda

cylinders or check valves.

pressure from 100 to
over

left it a Zero after

pressure at 550psi! Sure

had some preflared c/w

say is YES, once you
have

zero and check the gauge

flanges outboard cut a

I'm missing something

longer, and in what

aft. I've seen one Rebel

edge so that the

rudder. All four other

pretty well to clean
alum.

for compressed
contact

Then any pressure change

change the lever and
give

lineperson doesn't decide to

worth installing a

my hydraulic system

MAM pump. Howard's

hanger as well...so I
kinda

cylinders or check valves.

pressure from 100 to

left it a Zero after

pressure at 550psi! Sure

had some preflared c/w

say is YES, once you

zero and check the gauge

------------

https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML

------------

and/or your PVC locks are
on

build pressure from

the hydraulic pump.

from the selector to

you have pressure

vented back to tank. The

removing lines... as very

probably should be teeing a

the line from the pump

selector either up or

Then any pressure change

change the lever and
give

lineperson doesn't decide to

be worth installing a

that my hydraulic system

the MAM pump. Howard's

hanger as well...so I

cylinders or check
valves.

the pressure from 100 to

I'd left it a Zero
after

pressure at 550psi!
Sure

had some preflared
c/w

can say is YES, once you

zero and check the
gauge

------------------------------------------------------

-----------

https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML

------------------------------------------------------

-----------

-------------------------------------------------------
----------

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-------------------------------------------------------
----------

of time, but

problem for me, but I

strokes prior to

some slight

rings or wherever

in the heat. I

no external

I do always

the selector in

think I'll stick

which was a cross over
with

1 1/2") and matched
the

welded two 1/2 inch (about

pipe. I then took a

that came down from

clamp to the pipe-
across

behind the engine again.
A

about two inches away
from

When this was completed
and

was disassembled and

(telescopic) and

under no load, the 3/8
and

pound and was out of

hours on this system
before

floats and have never had a

similiar when I reach the

mixture- carb heat

any pictures for about

storage for Oshkosh.

the trim rocker

the top to go nose

about a trim wheel or a

nose down makes

manufacturer supplies labelling

sensor that looks

position indicators if

indicator.

position indicator

nose down trim, bottom
for

[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Ken

wiring the trim rocker

the top to go nose

about a trim wheel or
a

for nose down makes

switch....

manufacturer supplies
labelling

position sensor that looks

position indicators if

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Angus McKenzie
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 7:18 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Power flow exhaust:


Hi Walter
I'm not observant enough to have noticed a difference.
If it changed it was
a small amount.
The old exhaust has been repaired annually and had
begun to carbonize at the
outlets. It is on a parts shelf in our shop.
The repair was usually required at the Y on the right
side pipe.
We like the stainless.
Sorry we did not see you last week, Ken said he enjoyed your
visit.............Cheers, Angus




----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 9:05 PM
Subject: RE: Power flow exhaust:

Angus, did you notice an increase in performance

when you went

from your old MAM mild steel exhaust to your new one?

And what did you do with your old exhaust?

I still use the old MAM mild steel exhaust on mine

and have 320

hours on them so far. I did have the right ones

welded in the Y

where the cross over joins, because I initially

didn't have them

supported properly at the tail pipes end. However, I

don't expect

them to last too much longer and either need another

spare set,

or buy the new SS that most Rebels are using these days.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Angus McKenzie
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 8:57 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Power flow exhaust:


Just a quick comment.
I was able to get a local shop (a friend of John
Goris')to build me a new
exhaust of 2" stainless exhaust system. 1-3/4" is
stock Lycoming. This shop
does sanitary piping in commercial dairies , cheese
factories and the like.
All of the pipe segments are cut from mandrel bends
and purge welded, TIG.

Two friends,one from Leavens and one from Leggats had
involvement in the
construction of our 0-320-A2B. It has some performance
extras including
+.010 0-360 pistons and big valves. Both of these
mechanics felt that
performance would benefit from the larger exhaust. My
friend from Leggats
lent me an 0-320 core engine/cylinders. I took in that
core with my old MAM
mild steel cross-over exhaust and a new set of 4
stainless exhaust flange
blanks and ,viola, new pipes,an exact duplication
including flange rings for
the heat muffs, slip joints on the cross-over,etc.

This system has no muffler and mounts only on the
exhaust studs, only has
100hrs on it from last year, no cracks, good
performance and a distinctive
sound. I am very pleased with it. It is a shame to
have to cover the fine
welding and outstanding craftsmanship with the engine
cowl as they look so
nice...............Angus

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alvin and Glenys Adams"
<gander.electrical@nf.sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders-d@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:46 PM
Subject: Power flow exhaust: