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Coil suspension !?

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:26 pm
by Drew and Jan
As I've said often, I really didn't recommend the coil spring
setup, as it CAN transmit heavy, undamped loads that can cause airframe
damage, OR start shimmy, OR ... (a whole bunch of problems) !!
And - what do you do if a spring breaks, or the bolt fails, or ...
Bob I'm using the coil spring set-up from the drawings that Rick Ford has
been giving out. I'm very pleased with them. If a spring breaks
I'll replace it ditto for the bolt. Theres a safety bolt in the gear so it
cannot collapse. Many other designs use the spring gear successfully and I
don't forsee any problems with mine
Drew
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Coil suspension !?

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm
by Rick Harper
Dear Bob ;

Just read your e-mail regarding the fitting of coil springs instead of bungee cords....

I bought two "die springs" as you call them from Rich Bartman a few years back......all I know /
can recall is that Rich said that he had fitted the "Heavy Duty" springs...and they weren't enough as they sagged in time, so he recommended fitting the "Extra Heavy Duty" springs...which I purchased
from him and fitted.
I think Rich said they were "McMaster" or something like that....I'll send him an e-mail and see if he can remember.

Anyway......I read your comments on "You MUST fit Gordon Mohrs gear bolt bushings if you
use coil springs".....
Can you explain their need / purpose please ?

Thanks guys !

Rick & Wendy Harper
16 Tor rd, Dee Why,
N.S.W. 2099
Australia
rjwh@ozemail.com.au (rjwh@ozemail.com.au)
rjwh56@hotmail.com (rjwh56@hotmail.com)
Ph : 02 9971 7889
Mbl : 0416 041 007
O'seas Ph : 612 9971 7889

Coil suspension !?

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:39 pm
by Bob Patterson
Hi Rick !

I'd be a bit worried about the suitability of those springs you've
got !! Can you find out their travel, compression rate, load rating, ...
and maybe Wayne can help with other factors ??? It might save you a
bent airplane, if they might collapse, or are so stiff that they bend
the structure .... (Check the recent archives for Wayne's comments.)

As I've said often, I really didn't recommend the coil spring
setup, as it CAN transmit heavy, undamped loads that can cause airframe
damage, OR start shimmy, OR ... (a whole bunch of problems) !!
And - what do you do if a spring breaks, or the bolt fails, or ...
You really have to do a proper engineering analysis - and I feared
that most builders would not (<I> certainly wouldn't know HOW !!)
(and you can bet there are good reasons Murphy didn't use this type
of suspension ...)

My current Rebel has Wayne's coil spring legs, and it gives
a SUPERB ride - and doesn't 'waddle' like the spring gear. I spoke
to Wayne about all of the things he considered in the design, and
believe that the energy absorbtion & dissipation in <his> setup will
protect my Rebel just as well as the bungees. I suggest that everyone
should satisfy themselves about all the factors before changing
something as important as the gear.

Gord Mohr makes a very nice set of solid machined bushings that
fit inside the gear leg tubing. They provide a LOT more bearing surface
for the gear bolts, which would otherwise wear elongated holes in the
gear leg tubes very quickly. The bungee gear is NOT supposed to move,
unless the fuse is in danger of damage, so the normal bolt setup is
ok. When you go to coil spring gear, the gear can, and does, move
constantly, so the bolts & tubes wear much more quickly ...

These bushings, if oiled regularly, should retain a bit, and
last for many years with no extra maintenance. Wayne can fill in more
details on these bushing sets - he's installed a few !

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------------
At 01:58 AM 12/26/00 +1100, you wrote:
Dear Bob ;

Just read your e-mail regarding the fitting of coil springs instead
of bungee cords....
I bought two "die springs" as you call them from Rich Bartman a few years
back......all I know /
can recall is that Rich said that he had fitted the "Heavy Duty"
springs...and they weren't enough as they sagged in time, so he recommended
fitting the "Extra Heavy Duty" springs...which I purchased
from him and fitted.
I think Rich said they were "McMaster" or something like that....I'll send
him an e-mail and see if he can remember.
Anyway......I read your comments on "You MUST fit Gordon Mohrs gear bolt
bushings if you
use coil springs".....
Can you explain their need / purpose please ?

Thanks guys !

Rick & Wendy Harper
16 Tor rd, Dee Why,
N.S.W. 2099
Australia
rjwh@ozemail.com.au
rjwh56@hotmail.com
Ph : 02 9971 7889
Mbl : 0416 041 007
O'seas Ph : 612 9971 7889

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<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>Dear Bob ;</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Just read your
e-mail regarding the fitting of coil springs instead of bungee
cords....</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>I bought two "die springs" as you call them from Rich
Bartman a few years back......all I know / </EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>can recall is that Rich said that he had fitted the
"Heavy
Duty" springs...and they weren't enough as they sagged in time, so he
recommended fitting the "Extra Heavy Duty" springs...which I
purchased</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>from him and fitted.</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>I think Rich said they were "McMaster" or something like
that....I'll send him an e-mail and see if he can remember.</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>Anyway......I read your comments on "You MUST fit Gordon
Mohrs gear bolt bushings if you</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>use coil springs".....</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>Can you explain their need / purpose please
?</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>Thanks guys !</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT size=2>Rick & Wendy Harper<BR>16 Tor rd, Dee Why,
<BR>N.S.W.
2099<BR>Australia<BR><A
href="mailto:rjwh@ozemail.com.au">rjwh@ozemail.com.au</A><BR><A
href="mailto:rjwh56@hotmail.com">rjwh56@hotmail.com</A><BR>Ph : 02 9971 7889
<BR>Mbl : 0416 041 007<BR>O'seas Ph : 612 9971
7889<BR></FONT></EM></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Coil suspension !?

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:39 pm
by Rick and Cathy Ford
I've been using the coil spring suspension for 6 months now.
I've had 2 types of springs in it, and experienced no shimmy at all.
1 plus that I haven't heard mention yet, is that there is a consistency in
the tension on both sides and the airframe doesn't lean to either side
should you not tie the bungee cords all the same.

I will also say that the die spring set-up is stiffer than the bungee
set-up which will cause you to bounce more on landing.
As far as transmitting heavy loads, I can honestly say that while learning
to fly (and land) in the Rebel, I have had some harsh landings and the
airframe held together quite well.
I did although manage to bend the long bolts that the bungees are connected
to. So as far as worrying about transmitting heavy loads to the airframe,
guys don't worry.
Darryl did a good job in designing a tough aircraft.

Rick Ford
436R


----- Original Message -----
From: Drew and Jan <drewjan@execulink.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, January 03, 1997 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Coil suspension !?

As I've said often, I really didn't recommend the coil spring
setup, as it CAN transmit heavy, undamped loads that can cause airframe
damage, OR start shimmy, OR ... (a whole bunch of problems) !!
And - what do you do if a spring breaks, or the bolt fails, or ...
Bob I'm using the coil spring set-up from the drawings that Rick Ford has
been giving out. I'm very pleased with them. If a spring breaks
I'll replace it ditto for the bolt. Theres a safety bolt in the gear so it
cannot collapse. Many other designs use the spring gear successfully and I
don't forsee any problems with mine
Drew
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/

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Coil suspension !?

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:39 pm
by Bob Patterson
Hi Drew !

I'm sure with Rick's engineering background, he did the
calculations to prevent damage to the airframe. My big worry was
someone just copying the specs from "one of those many other designs
out there" - this could be dangerous ! The spring travel to full
compression, and the load it absorbs getting there, and the rate at
which it absorbs are all critical - and "some other design" is very
unlikely to be suitable for the Rebel.

There are aircraft flying now that have no provision for a
spring breaking during a 'touch & go' - the gear leg would just
fall off !! With the wrong spring specs, or the wrong configuration,
all the landing loads could be transferred straight into the airframe,
causing bending, fatigue, and later, failure. The whole landing gear
setup looks like a simple matter, but there are MANY considerations
that I'm sure most builders would not know about - I know I sure
learned A LOT about how much I DON'T KNOW when I had the opportunity
to view & discuss the S-R gear setup with Darryl & Brian !! There's
<SO> much more to it than just handling a 'thump' of 3 G's of straight
landing load - braking loads, turning loads, side loads, and how these
loads get passed through bulkheads, wing strut fittings, fuselage
skins, .....

I hope you have Gord Mohr's bolt bushing kit, or something
like it - if not, please check your gear legs often !

If you can make it, or if anyone else can, please bring the
drawings along to the next builders meeting - this would be a good
topic. (Can you come, Rick ??? - That would be ideal !!!)

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 04:39 PM 1/3/97 -0500, you wrote:
As I've said often, I really didn't recommend the coil spring
setup, as it CAN transmit heavy, undamped loads that can cause airframe
damage, OR start shimmy, OR ... (a whole bunch of problems) !!
And - what do you do if a spring breaks, or the bolt fails, or ...
Bob I'm using the coil spring set-up from the drawings that Rick Ford has
been giving out. I'm very pleased with them. If a spring breaks
I'll replace it ditto for the bolt. Theres a safety bolt in the gear so it
cannot collapse. Many other designs use the spring gear successfully and I
don't forsee any problems with mine
Drew
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/

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Archives located at:
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