912 performance

[Aurele Lavigne]

Ian, I changed the thread line as tyhe discussion has gone away from "fuel
sight gauges.

While I'm running the 912 and not 912S, it sounds like you're missing out on
at least 20% of you're power range at 5400. While you will notice some
difference in fuel consumption, climbing at 5800 and cruising at 5400, you
will like the added performance/speed when you need or want it. Of course
when you just want to soar and explore, you can always throttle back.

I use a 3-blade Ivoprop, in-flight adjustable, but it is not recommneded for
the 100hp. Too bad because you get great performance range and fuel economy
and all that for about $1000 US.

I regularly push my rpm to 6000 on take off to get off the water in short
distances and ease back within a minute or two max, then 5800 to altitude
for up to 5 minutes and cruise at 5400.

I read an article a few years ago by a company who operated a fleet of 912's
and one common problem they reported was that their pilots babied these
engines too much.

Like Bob said, we get 90kts cruise with the 80hp.

Hope this helps,

Aurele
R063

P.S. I assume you have the airbox with your 100hp, and if so would
appreciate any pics on that set-up, with corresponding cold and hot air
intake setup. Just send to me offllist if you can.
----- Original Message -----
From: "IAN DONALDSON" <allsure@bigpond.net.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:20 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel- fuel sight gauges

G'day


So, if I fly to the north of Australia nearer the equator the Rebel won't
spin at all?

Actually, it means you spin to the left instead of the right!

Regards

Ian>




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[Walter Klatt]

Aurele, what floats are you using? What type of performance are
you getting with the 912 on floats? Do you have any timings for
take-off at a given gross weight?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Aurele Lavigne
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 8:48 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 912 performance


Ian, I changed the thread line as tyhe discussion has
gone away from "fuel
sight gauges.

While I'm running the 912 and not 912S, it sounds like
you're missing out on
at least 20% of you're power range at 5400. While you
will notice some
difference in fuel consumption, climbing at 5800 and
cruising at 5400, you
will like the added performance/speed when you need or
want it. Of course
when you just want to soar and explore, you can always
throttle back.

I use a 3-blade Ivoprop, in-flight adjustable, but it
is not recommneded for
the 100hp. Too bad because you get great performance
range and fuel economy
and all that for about $1000 US.

I regularly push my rpm to 6000 on take off to get off
the water in short
distances and ease back within a minute or two max,
then 5800 to altitude
for up to 5 minutes and cruise at 5400.

I read an article a few years ago by a company who
operated a fleet of 912's
and one common problem they reported was that their
pilots babied these
engines too much.

Like Bob said, we get 90kts cruise with the 80hp.

Hope this helps,

Aurele
R063

P.S. I assume you have the airbox with your 100hp, and
if so would
appreciate any pics on that set-up, with corresponding
cold and hot air
intake setup. Just send to me offllist if you can.
----- Original Message -----
From: "IAN DONALDSON" <allsure@bigpond.net.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:20 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel- fuel sight gauges

G'day


So, if I fly to the north of Australia nearer the

equator the Rebel won't

spin at all?

Actually, it means you spin to the left instead of

the right!

Regards

Ian>

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[IAN DONALDSON]

While I'm running the 912 and not 912S, it sounds like you're missing out
on
at least 20% of you're power range at 5400. While you will notice some
difference in fuel consumption, climbing at 5800 and cruising at 5400, you
will like the added performance/speed when you need or want it. Of course
when you just want to soar and explore, you can always throttle back.

Well that is something that I will experiment with. I notice that the speed
does increase markedly as the revs come up.

I read an article a few years ago by a company who operated a fleet of
912's
and one common problem they reported was that their pilots babied these
engines too much.

There is a Rotax 80hp here in a training plane that has in excess of 3000
hours abd it gets a hard time. The last time it went in for overhaul it
measured up as standard> that says something about the quality of the Rotax.

P.S. I assume you have the airbox with your 100hp, and if so would
appreciate any pics on that set-up, with corresponding cold and hot air
intake setup. Just send to me offllist if you can.

No I don't have an airbox or carby heat, as the standard setup from the
factory does not allow for them, so I have never bothered to modify things
to fit one on. I was concerned about carby ice, but I have flown in icing
conditions and have not had a problem. I would be pleased to know if anyone
else has carby heat!

Regards

Ian Donaldson




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[Aurele Lavigne]

Walter, not sure of make of my floats, they were purchased by the original
owner and I beleive made in Quebec, Canada somewhere. They straight aluminum
and I figure, 1300's give or take.

As for performance, it's not bad considering you're talking an 80 hp. Never
took any times off the water, but alone with half a tank +/- 10 US gallons,
pilot 150lbs, empty weight 625lbs, 40 lbs of gear in the back, I scared
myself silly one day gazing at shore as I powered up and was off the water
in well under 10 seconds.

On an extreme hot day, 30C+ took a 180lb passenger and it was an extremely
long take off, but we were up flying. It was hard getting any lift and climb
was virtually nil. Having said this, a C172 tried 4 times without luck and
never got up.

Also had a 220lb passenger one day and no problem getting her in the air. I
would estimate gross with a passenger, 1/2 fuel, on floats at just under
1200lbs and under typical summer conditions, in light wind, I'd be off
within 15 seconds. I will however take some numbers this summer if you're
interested.

Note that I am using an in-flight adjustable prop from Ivoprop and this has
enhanced pewrformance somewhat on take off and cruise. Cruise in neutral
conditions isn't fast, probably about 70kt range.

If you like I can send you pics of the floats directly.

Aurele
R063

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 3:10 PM
Subject: RE: 912 performance

Aurele, what floats are you using? What type of performance are
you getting with the 912 on flats? Do you have any timings for
take-off at a given gross weight?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Aurele Lavigne
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 8:48 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 912 performance


Ian, I changed the thread line as tyhe discussion has
gone away from "fuel
sight gauges.

While I'm running the 912 and not 912S, it sounds like
you're missing out on
at least 20% of you're power range at 5400. While you
will notice some
difference in fuel consumption, climbing at 5800 and
cruising at 5400, you
will like the added performance/speed when you need or
want it. Of course
when you just want to soar and explore, you can always
throttle back.

I use a 3-blade Ivoprop, in-flight adjustable, but it
is not recommneded for
the 100hp. Too bad because you get great performance
range and fuel economy
and all that for about $1000 US.

I regularly push my rpm to 6000 on take off to get off
the water in short
distances and ease back within a minute or two max,
then 5800 to altitude
for up to 5 minutes and cruise at 5400.

I read an article a few years ago by a company who
operated a fleet of 912's
and one common problem they reported was that their
pilots babied these
engines too much.

Like Bob said, we get 90kts cruise with the 80hp.

Hope this helps,

Aurele
R063

P.S. I assume you have the airbox with your 100hp, and
if so would
appreciate any pics on that set-up, with corresponding
cold and hot air
intake setup. Just send to me offllist if you can.
----- Original Message -----
From: "IAN DONALDSON" <allsure@bigpond.net.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:20 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel- fuel sight gauges

G'day


So, if I fly to the north of Australia nearer the

equator the Rebel won't

spin at all?

the right!

Regards

Ian>

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

He departed a Provincial Park in a hell of a hurry after the Warden had a
little talk with us ! LOL ))

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aurele Lavigne" <acerebel@ntl.sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: 912 performance

Walter, not sure of make of my floats, they were purchased by the original
owner and I beleive made in Quebec, Canada somewhere. They straight

aluminum

and I figure, 1300's give or take.

As for performance, it's not bad considering you're talking an 80 hp.

Never

took any times off the water, but alone with half a tank +/- 10 US

gallons,

pilot 150lbs, empty weight 625lbs, 40 lbs of gear in the back, I scared
myself silly one day gazing at shore as I powered up and was off the water
in well under 10 seconds.

On an extreme hot day, 30C+ took a 180lb passenger and it was an extremely
long take off, but we were up flying. It was hard getting any lift and

climb

was virtually nil. Having said this, a C172 tried 4 times without luck and
never got up.

Also had a 220lb passenger one day and no problem getting her in the air.

I

would estimate gross with a passenger, 1/2 fuel, on floats at just under
1200lbs and under typical summer conditions, in light wind, I'd be off
within 15 seconds. I will however take some numbers this summer if you're
interested.

Note that I am using an in-flight adjustable prop from Ivoprop and this

has

enhanced pewrformance somewhat on take off and cruise. Cruise in neutral
conditions isn't fast, probably about 70kt range.

If you like I can send you pics of the floats directly.

Aurele
R063

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 3:10 PM
Subject: RE: 912 performance

Aurele, what floats are you using? What type of performance are
you getting with the 912 on flats? Do you have any timings for
take-off at a given gross weight?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Aurele Lavigne
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 8:48 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 912 performance


Ian, I changed the thread line as tyhe discussion has
gone away from "fuel
sight gauges.

While I'm running the 912 and not 912S, it sounds like
you're missing out on
at least 20% of you're power range at 5400. While you
will notice some
difference in fuel consumption, climbing at 5800 and
cruising at 5400, you
will like the added performance/speed when you need or
want it. Of course
when you just want to soar and explore, you can always
throttle back.

I use a 3-blade Ivoprop, in-flight adjustable, but it
is not recommneded for
the 100hp. Too bad because you get great performance
range and fuel economy
and all that for about $1000 US.

I regularly push my rpm to 6000 on take off to get off
the water in short
distances and ease back within a minute or two max,
then 5800 to altitude
for up to 5 minutes and cruise at 5400.

I read an article a few years ago by a company who
operated a fleet of 912's
and one common problem they reported was that their
pilots babied these
engines too much.

Like Bob said, we get 90kts cruise with the 80hp.

Hope this helps,

Aurele
R063

P.S. I assume you have the airbox with your 100hp, and
if so would
appreciate any pics on that set-up, with corresponding
cold and hot air
intake setup. Just send to me offllist if you can.
----- Original Message -----
From: "IAN DONALDSON" <allsure@bigpond.net.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:20 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel- fuel sight gauges

equator the Rebel won't the right! -------------------------------------------------------
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[Aurele Lavigne]

Ian, the airbox has been added as a standard installation for all 912's. See
the Rotax sight and see the SB or I can send you a link.The air box won't
make that much difference, but every inch of improvement is worth in my
opinion. It will equalize the air intake as opposed to the turbalent air
from inside the cowl.

Most 912's don't need carb heat from my experience, but will not it with an
air box.

I made my air box with my local AME for 1/4 of the price of Rotech's.
Besides the Rotech one won't fit the Rebel's installation since our intakes
have been reversed to allow a fit within our engine mount, so need to custom
build the airbox.

Had a blueprint of the airbox at one time, so if you're ever thinking of
making one will dig it out.

Aurele
R063

----- Original Message -----
From: "IAN DONALDSON" <allsure@bigpond.net.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: 912 performance

While I'm running the 912 and not 912S, it sounds like you're missing out
on
at least 20% of you're power range at 5400. While you will notice some
difference in fuel consumption, climbing at 5800 and cruising at 5400,
you
will like the added performance/speed when you need or want it. Of course
when you just want to soar and explore, you can always throttle back.

Well that is something that I will experiment with. I notice that the
speed
does increase markedly as the revs come up.

I read an article a few years ago by a company who operated a fleet of
912's
and one common problem they reported was that their pilots babied these
engines too much.

There is a Rotax 80hp here in a training plane that has in excess of 3000
hours abd it gets a hard time. The last time it went in for overhaul it
measured up as standard> that says something about the quality of the
Rotax.

P.S. I assume you have the airbox with your 100hp, and if so would
appreciate any pics on that set-up, with corresponding cold and hot air
intake setup. Just send to me offllist if you can.

No I don't have an airbox or carby heat, as the standard setup from the
factory does not allow for them, so I have never bothered to modify things
to fit one on. I was concerned about carby ice, but I have flown in icing
conditions and have not had a problem. I would be pleased to know if
anyone
else has carby heat!

Regards

Ian Donaldson




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[Aurele Lavigne]

Wayne, no need to bring that up. LOL And by the way, that wasn't one of by
best take offs. I was under a lot of pressure.

Glad to see you're feeling better after you're freak accident.

While you're here, I'm looking for a set of vaccum gauges for pneumatic
synchronization of carbs on the 912. Do you have such a beast???

Thanks, Aurele
R063

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: 912 performance

He departed a Provincial Park in a hell of a hurry after the Warden had a
little talk with us ! LOL ))

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aurele Lavigne" <acerebel@ntl.sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: 912 performance

Walter, not sure of make of my floats, they were purchased by the
original
owner and I beleive made in Quebec, Canada somewhere. They straight

aluminum

and I figure, 1300's give or take.

As for performance, it's not bad considering you're talking an 80 hp.

Never

took any times off the water, but alone with half a tank +/- 10 US

gallons,

pilot 150lbs, empty weight 625lbs, 40 lbs of gear in the back, I scared
myself silly one day gazing at shore as I powered up and was off the
water
in well under 10 seconds.

On an extreme hot day, 30C+ took a 180lb passenger and it was an
extremely
long take off, but we were up flying. It was hard getting any lift and

climb

was virtually nil. Having said this, a C172 tried 4 times without luck
and
never got up.

Also had a 220lb passenger one day and no problem getting her in the air.

I

would estimate gross with a passenger, 1/2 fuel, on floats at just under
1200lbs and under typical summer conditions, in light wind, I'd be off
within 15 seconds. I will however take some numbers this summer if you're
interested.

Note that I am using an in-flight adjustable prop from Ivoprop and this

has

enhanced pewrformance somewhat on take off and cruise. Cruise in neutral
conditions isn't fast, probably about 70kt range.

If you like I can send you pics of the floats directly.

Aurele
R063

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 3:10 PM
Subject: RE: 912 performance

Aurele, what floats are you using? What type of performance are
you getting with the 912 on flats? Do you have any timings for
take-off at a given gross weight?

Walter


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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Available from Lockwood Aviation Supplies in Florida for $79.75US
www.lockwood-aviation.com lockwood@digital.net

Probably others as well, but I always see their advert in EAA's Experimenter
(now Sportpilot)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aurele Lavigne" <acerebel@ntl.sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: 912 performance

Wayne, no need to bring that up. LOL And by the way, that wasn't one of by
best take offs. I was under a lot of pressure.

Glad to see you're feeling better after you're freak accident.

While you're here, I'm looking for a set of vaccum gauges for pneumatic
synchronization of carbs on the 912. Do you have such a beast???

Thanks, Aurele
R063

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: 912 performance

He departed a Provincial Park in a hell of a hurry after the Warden had

a

little talk with us ! LOL ))

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aurele Lavigne" <acerebel@ntl.sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: 912 performance

Walter, not sure of make of my floats, they were purchased by the
original
owner and I beleive made in Quebec, Canada somewhere. They straight

aluminum

and I figure, 1300's give or take.

As for performance, it's not bad considering you're talking an 80 hp.

Never

took any times off the water, but alone with half a tank +/- 10 US

gallons,

pilot 150lbs, empty weight 625lbs, 40 lbs of gear in the back, I scared
myself silly one day gazing at shore as I powered up and was off the
water
in well under 10 seconds.

On an extreme hot day, 30C+ took a 180lb passenger and it was an
extremely
long take off, but we were up flying. It was hard getting any lift and

climb

was virtually nil. Having said this, a C172 tried 4 times without luck
and
never got up.

Also had a 220lb passenger one day and no problem getting her in the

air.

I

would estimate gross with a passenger, 1/2 fuel, on floats at just

under

1200lbs and under typical summer conditions, in light wind, I'd be off
within 15 seconds. I will however take some numbers this summer if

you're

interested.

Note that I am using an in-flight adjustable prop from Ivoprop and this

has

enhanced pewrformance somewhat on take off and cruise. Cruise in

neutral

conditions isn't fast, probably about 70kt range.

If you like I can send you pics of the floats directly.

Aurele
R063

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 3:10 PM
Subject: RE: 912 performance


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[WALTER KLATT]

Thanks, Aurele, that's very interesting. With my 0320 on amphibs, it takes a good headwind to get me off under 10 seconds. I guess its all about weight.

You mentioned 625 empty weight, and assume that is on wheels, which is still very light for a Rebel. Do you know what it is on floats?

And yes, send me the float pics directly.

Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: Aurele Lavigne <acerebel@ntl.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 8:53 am
Subject: Re: 912 performance

Walter, not sure of make of my floats, they were purchased by the
original
owner and I beleive made in Quebec, Canada somewhere. They
straight aluminum
and I figure, 1300's give or take.

As for performance, it's not bad considering you're talking an 80
hp. Never
took any times off the water, but alone with half a tank +/- 10 US
gallons,
pilot 150lbs, empty weight 625lbs, 40 lbs of gear in the back, I
scared
myself silly one day gazing at shore as I powered up and was off
the water
in well under 10 seconds.

On an extreme hot day, 30C+ took a 180lb passenger and it was an
extremely
long take off, but we were up flying. It was hard getting any lift
and climb
was virtually nil. Having said this, a C172 tried 4 times without
luck and
never got up.

Also had a 220lb passenger one day and no problem getting her in
the air. I
would estimate gross with a passenger, 1/2 fuel, on floats at just
under
1200lbs and under typical summer conditions, in light wind, I'd be
off
within 15 seconds. I will however take some numbers this summer if
you're
interested.

Note that I am using an in-flight adjustable prop from Ivoprop and
this has
enhanced pewrformance somewhat on take off and cruise. Cruise in
neutral
conditions isn't fast, probably about 70kt range.

If you like I can send you pics of the floats directly.

Aurele
R063

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 3:10 PM
Subject: RE: 912 performance

Aurele, what floats are you using? What type of performance are
you getting with the 912 on flats? Do you have any timings for
take-off at a given gross weight?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Aurele Lavigne
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 8:48 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 912 performance


Ian, I changed the thread line as tyhe discussion has
gone away from "fuel
sight gauges.

While I'm running the 912 and not 912S, it sounds like
you're missing out on
at least 20% of you're power range at 5400. While you
will notice some
difference in fuel consumption, climbing at 5800 and
cruising at 5400, you
will like the added performance/speed when you need or
want it. Of course
when you just want to soar and explore, you can always
throttle back.

I use a 3-blade Ivoprop, in-flight adjustable, but it
is not recommneded for
the 100hp. Too bad because you get great performance
range and fuel economy
and all that for about $1000 US.

I regularly push my rpm to 6000 on take off to get off
the water in short
distances and ease back within a minute or two max,
then 5800 to altitude
for up to 5 minutes and cruise at 5400.

I read an article a few years ago by a company who
operated a fleet of 912's
and one common problem they reported was that their
pilots babied these
engines too much.

Like Bob said, we get 90kts cruise with the 80hp.

Hope this helps,

Aurele
R063

P.S. I assume you have the airbox with your 100hp, and
if so would
appreciate any pics on that set-up, with corresponding
cold and hot air
intake setup. Just send to me offllist if you can.
----- Original Message -----
From: "IAN DONALDSON" <allsure@bigpond.net.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:20 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel- fuel sight gauges

equator the Rebel won't the right! -------------------------------------------------------
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[IAN DONALDSON]

G'day Aurele

Most 912's don't need carb heat from my experience, but will not it with
an
air box.

Ok I had always assumed that it got a lot of warm air from under the cowl. I
have never had a problem, but that is not to say that it could not happen.

Had a blueprint of the airbox at one time, so if you're ever thinking of
making one will dig it out.

Well, I would like to see the blueprint if you would like to find it and
send it over. I would appreciate that. When I found that the factory one
would not fit I did not bother anymore.

Regards

Ian Donaldson





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