The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am**

Dear Builders,

While accomplishing the elevator horn modification, I am weighing whether to
shorten the elevator balance at each outboard end by three inches. Robin
Dyck said that this greatly improved handling on the Elite he flew, and it
is apparently a modification that MAM are thinking about doing.

Has anyone here done this? One approach has been to cut off the three
inches with a die grinder and use the end skin as a drilling guide in order
to reuse the ribs.

Shortening the flying surfaces seems like a big enough deal that I thought I
should ask around!

Best wishes,

Jeffrey Steenson
E714

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am**

Hello Jeffrey

The Elite Dick is talking about is the Bob Gagne one. I do not know if use
that site but you can call him at 418-653-4953 (he speak english. He have
shortening them because the airplane was to sensitive on elevator and I
think he is happy with the result.

Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Steenson" <jsteenson1@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:29 PM
Subject: Shortening Elite elevator

Dear Builders,

While accomplishing the elevator horn modification, I am weighing whether
to
shorten the elevator balance at each outboard end by three inches. Robin
Dyck said that this greatly improved handling on the Elite he flew, and it
is apparently a modification that MAM are thinking about doing.

Has anyone here done this? One approach has been to cut off the three
inches with a die grinder and use the end skin as a drilling guide in
order
to reuse the ribs.

Shortening the flying surfaces seems like a big enough deal that I thought
I
should ask around!

Best wishes,

Jeffrey Steenson
E714

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am**

Yep, this is close to becoming a standard mod. for the Elite. You can just
cut the spades roughly in half span-wise - whatever leaves you with 5/16"
edge allowance on the central rivet hole. I have not yet flown my aircraft
(close though) so can't report personally on flying qualities. I did put a
doubler about 1 1/2" wide and 6" long under the skins, and put a doubler
over the junction of the two ribs about 6" long to compensate for lost
stiffness in the spade.

Al Hepburn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Steenson" <jsteenson1@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:29 PM
Subject: Shortening Elite elevator

Dear Builders,

While accomplishing the elevator horn modification, I am weighing whether

to

shorten the elevator balance at each outboard end by three inches. Robin
Dyck said that this greatly improved handling on the Elite he flew, and it
is apparently a modification that MAM are thinking about doing.

Has anyone here done this? One approach has been to cut off the three
inches with a die grinder and use the end skin as a drilling guide in

order

to reuse the ribs.

Shortening the flying surfaces seems like a big enough deal that I thought

I

should ask around!

Best wishes,

Jeffrey Steenson
E714

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am**

I'm in the middle of building my elevator right now. It sure would be nice
to hear how this thread comes out before I finish. If I understand you,
won't this create a 3" space between the stab main spar and the elevator
balance? Is the space filled in?
Mike Betti
E771

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Steenson" <jsteenson1@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 5:29 PM
Subject: Shortening Elite elevator

Dear Builders,

While accomplishing the elevator horn modification, I am weighing whether

to

shorten the elevator balance at each outboard end by three inches. Robin
Dyck said that this greatly improved handling on the Elite he flew, and it
is apparently a modification that MAM are thinking about doing.

Has anyone here done this? One approach has been to cut off the three
inches with a die grinder and use the end skin as a drilling guide in

order

to reuse the ribs.

Shortening the flying surfaces seems like a big enough deal that I thought

I

should ask around!

Best wishes,

Jeffrey Steenson
E714

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am**

Would you have any pictures of this?
Mike Betti
E771
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

Yep, this is close to becoming a standard mod. for the Elite. You can

just

cut the spades roughly in half span-wise - whatever leaves you with 5/16"
edge allowance on the central rivet hole. I have not yet flown my

aircraft

(close though) so can't report personally on flying qualities. I did put

a

doubler about 1 1/2" wide and 6" long under the skins, and put a doubler
over the junction of the two ribs about 6" long to compensate for lost
stiffness in the spade.

Al Hepburn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Steenson" <jsteenson1@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:29 PM
Subject: Shortening Elite elevator

Dear Builders,

While accomplishing the elevator horn modification, I am weighing

whether

to
shorten the elevator balance at each outboard end by three inches.

Robin

Dyck said that this greatly improved handling on the Elite he flew, and

it

is apparently a modification that MAM are thinking about doing.

Has anyone here done this? One approach has been to cut off the three
inches with a die grinder and use the end skin as a drilling guide in
order
to reuse the ribs.

Shortening the flying surfaces seems like a big enough deal that I

thought

I
should ask around!

Best wishes,

Jeffrey Steenson
E714

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am**

Thanks, Al, for your reply. Pictures would be great, because it is a bit
confusing. As I understand it, you have to shorten the spar and fiberglass
tip on the horizontal stabilizer accordingly to match.

13 hours on the elevator horn reinforcement mod ... now it's almost as
strong as Wayne's bullet-proof firewall mod!

Jeffrey

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

Would you have any pictures of this?
Mike Betti
E771
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

Yep, this is close to becoming a standard mod. for the Elite. You can
just
cut the spades roughly in half span-wise - whatever leaves you with 5/16"
edge allowance on the central rivet hole. I have not yet flown my
aircraft
(close though) so can't report personally on flying qualities. I did put
a
doubler about 1 1/2" wide and 6" long under the skins, and put a doubler
over the junction of the two ribs about 6" long to compensate for lost
stiffness in the spade.

Al Hepburn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Steenson" <jsteenson1@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:29 PM
Subject: Shortening Elite elevator

Dear Builders,

While accomplishing the elevator horn modification, I am weighing
whether
to
shorten the elevator balance at each outboard end by three inches.
Robin
Dyck said that this greatly improved handling on the Elite he flew, and
it
is apparently a modification that MAM are thinking about doing.

Has anyone here done this? One approach has been to cut off the three
inches with a die grinder and use the end skin as a drilling guide in
order
to reuse the ribs.

Shortening the flying surfaces seems like a big enough deal that I
thought
I
should ask around!

Best wishes,

Jeffrey Steenson
E714

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am**

Merci, Jean, for Bob Gagne's number!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean Poirier" <oxyport@globetrotter.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

Hello Jeffrey

The Elite Dick is talking about is the Bob Gagne one. I do not know if
use
that site but you can call him at 418-653-4953 (he speak english. He have
shortening them because the airplane was to sensitive on elevator and I
think he is happy with the result.

Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Steenson" <jsteenson1@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:29 PM
Subject: Shortening Elite elevator

Dear Builders,

While accomplishing the elevator horn modification, I am weighing whether
to
shorten the elevator balance at each outboard end by three inches. Robin
Dyck said that this greatly improved handling on the Elite he flew, and
it
is apparently a modification that MAM are thinking about doing.

Has anyone here done this? One approach has been to cut off the three
inches with a die grinder and use the end skin as a drilling guide in
order
to reuse the ribs.

Shortening the flying surfaces seems like a big enough deal that I
thought
I
should ask around!

Best wishes,

Jeffrey Steenson
E714

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am**

Guys

Let's get these pictures in the archive, I think every Elite builder is just
waiting to see how it looks and to have more feedback on how it flys.

Just so I understand this though, the mod is to trim the last 3" or so from the
width of the spade AND the elevator?

Anyone else heard about MAM thinking of making mods? Rumors? If we were going
to make changes it would be nice if MAM published the mod before we started
cutting..... BTW, this would be 3rd round of mods for our elevator and it
hasn't flown yet ;^(

Dave R.
Francine D.
elite583.cjb.net

Jeffrey Steenson wrote:

Thanks, Al, for your reply. Pictures would be great, because it is a bit
confusing. As I understand it, you have to shorten the spar and fiberglass
tip on the horizontal stabilizer accordingly to match.

13 hours on the elevator horn reinforcement mod ... now it's almost as
strong as Wayne's bullet-proof firewall mod!

Jeffrey

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

Would you have any pictures of this?
Mike Betti
E771
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

Yep, this is close to becoming a standard mod. for the Elite. You can
just
cut the spades roughly in half span-wise - whatever leaves you with 5/16"
edge allowance on the central rivet hole. I have not yet flown my
aircraft
(close though) so can't report personally on flying qualities. I did put
a
doubler about 1 1/2" wide and 6" long under the skins, and put a doubler
over the junction of the two ribs about 6" long to compensate for lost
stiffness in the spade.

Al Hepburn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Steenson" <jsteenson1@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:29 PM
Subject: Shortening Elite elevator

whether
to
Robin
it
order
thought
I

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--
David A. Ricker
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am**

to all Elilistis,
I flew Bob Gagne s Elite (after he made his mode) and the beast behave as
it should,extremely pleasant... we are modifiing ours at the moment
regards
gilles st pierre
e717

From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 19:32:56 -0500

Yep, this is close to becoming a standard mod. for the Elite. You can just
cut the spades roughly in half span-wise - whatever leaves you with 5/16"
edge allowance on the central rivet hole. I have not yet flown my aircraft
(close though) so can't report personally on flying qualities. I did put a
doubler about 1 1/2" wide and 6" long under the skins, and put a doubler
over the junction of the two ribs about 6" long to compensate for lost
stiffness in the spade.

Al Hepburn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Steenson" <jsteenson1@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:29 PM
Subject: Shortening Elite elevator

Dear Builders,

While accomplishing the elevator horn modification, I am weighing
whether
to
shorten the elevator balance at each outboard end by three inches.
Robin
Dyck said that this greatly improved handling on the Elite he flew, and
it
is apparently a modification that MAM are thinking about doing.

Has anyone here done this? One approach has been to cut off the three
inches with a die grinder and use the end skin as a drilling guide in
order
to reuse the ribs.

Shortening the flying surfaces seems like a big enough deal that I
thought
I
should ask around!

Best wishes,

Jeffrey Steenson
E714

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am**

Hi Gilles !

Is Bob Gagne still on this email list ??? I

Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am**

i don t have is e mail add, but will call him to nigt and let you know
gilles

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:06 am**

No, you chop the span off the outboard edge of the spade, then re-locate the
original tip ribs. Be sure to take care to maintain the alignment of the
spade or it can wind up twisted. Come to think of it, if you already have
the spade built, it would be a good idea to cleco the suggested 6" patch
that spans the roots of the ribs so you don't have to worry about alignment
so much. I'm going over to the shop tonight to work on the retracts, so
will try to get a couple of pix.

I don't recommend you do it this way, but it's just as if you put the
elevator in a table saw and lopped about 3 11/16" off each end!

Al Hepburn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

I'm in the middle of building my elevator right now. It sure would be nice
to hear how this thread comes out before I finish. If I understand you,
won't this create a 3" space between the stab main spar and the elevator
balance? Is the space filled in?
Mike Betti
E771

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Steenson" <jsteenson1@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 5:29 PM
Subject: Shortening Elite elevator

Dear Builders,

While accomplishing the elevator horn modification, I am weighing

whether

to
shorten the elevator balance at each outboard end by three inches.

Robin

Dyck said that this greatly improved handling on the Elite he flew, and

it

is apparently a modification that MAM are thinking about doing.

Has anyone here done this? One approach has been to cut off the three
inches with a die grinder and use the end skin as a drilling guide in
order
to reuse the ribs.

Shortening the flying surfaces seems like a big enough deal that I

thought

I
should ask around!

Best wishes,

Jeffrey Steenson
E714

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:06 am**

I would appreciate any pix on this matter. Do you cut off the spar and fibreglass tip of the stab to match also?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 07:38:08 -0500, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

No, you chop the span off the outboard edge of the spade, then re-locate the
original tip ribs. Be sure to take care to maintain the alignment of the
spade or it can wind up twisted. Come to think of it, if you already have
the spade built, it would be a good idea to cleco the suggested 6" patch
that spans the roots of the ribs so you don't have to worry about alignment
so much. I'm going over to the shop tonight to work on the retracts, so
will try to get a couple of pix.

I don't recommend you do it this way, but it's just as if you put the
elevator in a table saw and lopped about 3 11/16" off each end!

Al Hepburn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

I'm in the middle of building my elevator right now. It sure would be nice
to hear how this thread comes out before I finish. If I understand you,
won't this create a 3" space between the stab main spar and the elevator
balance? Is the space filled in?
Mike Betti
E771

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Steenson" <jsteenson1@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 5:29 PM
Subject: Shortening Elite elevator

Dear Builders,

While accomplishing the elevator horn modification, I am weighing
whether
to
shorten the elevator balance at each outboard end by three inches.
Robin
Dyck said that this greatly improved handling on the Elite he flew, and
it
is apparently a modification that MAM are thinking about doing.

Has anyone here done this? One approach has been to cut off the three
inches with a die grinder and use the end skin as a drilling guide in
order
to reuse the ribs.

Shortening the flying surfaces seems like a big enough deal that I
thought
I
should ask around!

Best wishes,

Jeffrey Steenson
E714

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:06 am**

Mike:

Sorry, I was at the shop tonight and fogot to photograph the elevator. I'll
try to remember at the weekend. However, I think you have the idea. The
fiberglass tips get shortened to match the spade, and the spar gets
shortened so it prortrudes to the point where the tip starts to curve from
horizontal to vertical.

The net result is that you lose about 5% of the total stab/elevator area. I
angonised for a long time about whether I should reduce the cord rather than
the span of the spade. I figured that by shortening the cord of the spade
by one third, I'd cut the moment it produces by a half, and wouldn't change
the total area at all. However, it would have been quite a bit more
complicated structurally, and since nobody had done it before, I'd be moving
more into test pilot role, so I finally grapped the snips and took the easy
route.

----- Original Message -----
From: <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

I would appreciate any pix on this matter. Do you cut off the spar and

fibreglass tip of the stab to match also?

Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 07:38:08 -0500, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:
No, you chop the span off the outboard edge of the spade, then re-locate

the

original tip ribs. Be sure to take care to maintain the alignment of the
spade or it can wind up twisted. Come to think of it, if you already

have

the spade built, it would be a good idea to cleco the suggested 6" patch
that spans the roots of the ribs so you don't have to worry about

alignment

so much. I'm going over to the shop tonight to work on the retracts, so
will try to get a couple of pix.

I don't recommend you do it this way, but it's just as if you put the
elevator in a table saw and lopped about 3 11/16" off each end!

Al Hepburn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

I'm in the middle of building my elevator right now. It sure would be

nice

to hear how this thread comes out before I finish. If I understand you,
won't this create a 3" space between the stab main spar and the

elevator

balance? Is the space filled in?
Mike Betti
E771

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Steenson" <jsteenson1@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 5:29 PM
Subject: Shortening Elite elevator

whether
to
Robin

and

it

three

order
thought
I

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Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:09 am**

I'm planning on doing this mod this weekend. Robin says it's a good idea and
he is hoping some info will be available in a couple weeks, sounds like the
info is coming from Sean?? was getting it to Robin on what he done? Anyway,
Al seems to have the direction, just set your table saw fence to 3-11/16"
and run each side through, and your done..........
What is the best way to cut the skin off with out making a mess? Snips?
Cutoff wheel? I'm pretty early in this project and don't have all the
sheetmetal skills down yet. Does the doubler you added seem necessary?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

No, you chop the span off the outboard edge of the spade, then re-locate

the

original tip ribs. Be sure to take care to maintain the alignment of the
spade or it can wind up twisted. Come to think of it, if you already have
the spade built, it would be a good idea to cleco the suggested 6" patch
that spans the roots of the ribs so you don't have to worry about

alignment

so much. I'm going over to the shop tonight to work on the retracts, so
will try to get a couple of pix.

I don't recommend you do it this way, but it's just as if you put the
elevator in a table saw and lopped about 3 11/16" off each end!

Al Hepburn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

I'm in the middle of building my elevator right now. It sure would be

nice

to hear how this thread comes out before I finish. If I understand you,
won't this create a 3" space between the stab main spar and the elevator
balance? Is the space filled in?
Mike Betti
E771

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Steenson" <jsteenson1@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 5:29 PM
Subject: Shortening Elite elevator

Dear Builders,

While accomplishing the elevator horn modification, I am weighing
whether
to
shorten the elevator balance at each outboard end by three inches.
Robin
Dyck said that this greatly improved handling on the Elite he flew,

and

it
is apparently a modification that MAM are thinking about doing.

Has anyone here done this? One approach has been to cut off the three
inches with a die grinder and use the end skin as a drilling guide in
order
to reuse the ribs.

Shortening the flying surfaces seems like a big enough deal that I
thought
I
should ask around!

Best wishes,

Jeffrey Steenson
E714

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