update on 387

A N Allan · Post by **A N Allan** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:26 pm

This is a progress report on Rebel 387 from Gore New Zealand.
The 20,000th rivet was fitted yesterday. About to start building one piece top opening doors. Solid blocks have been fitted up main carry throughs for spring gear. 8.50 x 6 tyres and larger pneumatic tail wheel fitted. Tail cone and wing attach points doublers all fitted. Internal skins fitted between door post and fire wall. Firewall strengthened and moved 3" for 0-320.

Question? In what way are the fibre glass tail wheel springs unsatisfactory?

Peter Kempthorne.

Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:26 pm

Sounds like you're really making progress !!

Some folks think the fibreglass tailsprings are too 'bouncey', and tend
to break. If used full length, they tend to twist sideways considerably,
which might affect handing. They generally ARE shipped a little too long,
but can work well if shortened by a couple of inches.

I only know of 2 "failures" - one when a Rebel was stood on its nose,
and allowed to drop onto the tailwheel. This broke the fibreglass ! The
other
'failure' was on my Rebel - after 8 years out in the sun, and many landings
on rough grass strips, the fibreglass started to delaminate. A sleeve & a
bolt held it until I could get a replacement. I now have fibreglass springs
on both our Rebels - I like them !

Did try an early aluminum 'spring' - it flattenned out in less than a
year. The newer aluminum 'springs' are much thicker, so should last longer.
(they really don't have much 'spring', though .... )

Several people have done swing-up doors. It might be easier to have the
window swing up, as well ... One consideration is reworking the bottom
front of the door frame to move it back a bit to clear the strut. You only
need about 1 1/2" in, to about 3" high. This is usually done by rounding the
corner a bit. Small gas struts on the front can help make the doors easier
to open.

......bobp

--------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 03:01 PM 9/17/99 +1200, you wrote:

This is a progress report on Rebel 387 from Gore New Zealand.
The 20,000th rivet was fitted yesterday. About to start building one piece

top opening doors. Solid blocks have been fitted up main carry throughs for
spring gear. 8.50 x 6 tyres and larger pneumatic tail wheel fitted. Tail
cone and wing attach points doublers all fitted. Internal skins fitted
between door post and fire wall. Firewall strengthened and moved 3" for
0-320.

Question? In what way are the fibre glass tail wheel springs

unsatisfactory?

Peter Kempthorne.
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content='"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>This is a progress report on Rebel 387 from Gore

New

Zealand.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>The 20,000th rivet was fitted yesterday. About to

start

building one piece top opening doors. Solid blocks have been fitted up main
carry throughs for spring gear. 8.50 x 6 tyres and larger pneumatic tail

wheel

fitted. Tail cone and wing attach points doublers all fitted. Internal

skins

fitted between door post and fire wall. Firewall strengthened and moved

3"

for 0-320.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>Question?  In what way are the fibre glass

tail

wheel springs unsatisfactory?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>Peter Kempthorne. </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

Alister Yeoman · Post by **Alister Yeoman** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:26 pm

Hi All,

The new aluminum tail springs are very rigid. To much so,I think, to use
with the Murphy supplied tail wheel.

But used with say, a Scott or Matco pneumatic tail wheel, they work really
well and are very robust. These tail wheels have a longer 'leverage' and you
seem to gain more flex out of the spring as well as the 'give' in the
pneumatic tyre as well.

Cheers

Alister

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, September 18, 1999 5:04 AM
Subject: Re: update on 387

Sounds like you're really making progress !!

Some folks think the fibreglass tailsprings are too 'bouncey', and tend
to break. If used full length, they tend to twist sideways considerably,
which might affect handing. They generally ARE shipped a little too long,
but can work well if shortened by a couple of inches.

I only know of 2 "failures" - one when a Rebel was stood on its nose,
and allowed to drop onto the tailwheel. This broke the fibreglass ! The

other

'failure' was on my Rebel - after 8 years out in the sun, and many landings
on rough grass strips, the fibreglass started to delaminate. A sleeve & a
bolt held it until I could get a replacement. I now have fibreglass springs
on both our Rebels - I like them !

Did try an early aluminum 'spring' - it flattenned out in less than a
year. The newer aluminum 'springs' are much thicker, so should last longer.
(they really don't have much 'spring', though .... )

Several people have done swing-up doors. It might be easier to have the
window swing up, as well ... One consideration is reworking the bottom
front of the door frame to move it back a bit to clear the strut. You only
need about 1 1/2" in, to about 3" high. This is usually done by rounding

the

corner a bit. Small gas struts on the front can help make the doors easier
to open.

......bobp

--------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 03:01 PM 9/17/99 +1200, you wrote:
This is a progress report on Rebel 387 from Gore New Zealand.
The 20,000th rivet was fitted yesterday. About to start building one piece
top opening doors. Solid blocks have been fitted up main carry throughs for
spring gear. 8.50 x 6 tyres and larger pneumatic tail wheel fitted. Tail
cone and wing attach points doublers all fitted. Internal skins fitted
between door post and fire wall. Firewall strengthened and moved 3" for

0-320.

Question? In what way are the fibre glass tail wheel springs

unsatisfactory?

Peter Kempthorne.
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content='"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>This is a progress report on Rebel 387 from Gore

New

Zealand.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>The 20,000th rivet was fitted yesterday. About to
start
building one piece top opening doors. Solid blocks have been fitted up

main

carry throughs for spring gear. 8.50 x 6 tyres and larger pneumatic tail

wheel

fitted. Tail cone and wing attach points doublers all fitted. Internal

skins

fitted between door post and fire wall. Firewall strengthened and moved
3"
for 0-320.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>Question?  In what way are the fibre glass

tail

wheel springs unsatisfactory?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>Peter

Kempthorne. </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*

Brian Cross · Post by **Brian Cross** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:26 pm

Hi There!

I agree totally with Bob's comments about the tailspring. I have the glass
spring on a 0320 aircraft with spring gear. This is alot of twist in the
spring when pushed sideways. This can easily be seen when just pushing the
aircraft around by hand. It does look alarming. But I cannot blame any of
my lousy landings on the spring. It makes me feel to good to have the
tailwheel on a spring that moves with the load and thereby giving some
shock absorbing effect. You can land slightly tail first without it
pushing the nose down. Makes for a very nice landing and of course eases
the load on the tail.

I also have an aluminium tail spring and when I put my considerable weight
on that spring, you would need a micrometer to measure the movement! I am
sticking with the glass tailspring until all my landings are perfect & you
know how long that will take (i.e. never).

The swing up doors are very nice looking and would make getting in & out of
the aircraft very easy. However, if you do that, make sure you have a way
to get plenty of fresh air into the aircraft. I love those windows on the
Murph. In the summer, I would not trade them for anything. Can you
imagine being at Oshkosh in the 100 F plus temps. and taxing in an RV-8?
I could not stand it personally.

Best Regards

Brian #328R

At 01:03 PM 17/09/99 -0400, you wrote:

Sounds like you're really making progress !!

Some folks think the fibreglass tailsprings are too 'bouncey', and tend
to break. If used full length, they tend to twist sideways considerably,
which might affect handing. They generally ARE shipped a little too long,
but can work well if shortened by a couple of inches.

I only know of 2 "failures" - one when a Rebel was stood on its nose,
and allowed to drop onto the tailwheel. This broke the fibreglass ! The

other

'failure' was on my Rebel - after 8 years out in the sun, and many landings
on rough grass strips, the fibreglass started to delaminate. A sleeve & a
bolt held it until I could get a replacement. I now have fibreglass springs
on both our Rebels - I like them !

Did try an early aluminum 'spring' - it flattenned out in less than a
year. The newer aluminum 'springs' are much thicker, so should last longer.
(they really don't have much 'spring', though .... )

Several people have done swing-up doors. It might be easier to have the
window swing up, as well ... One consideration is reworking the bottom
front of the door frame to move it back a bit to clear the strut. You only
need about 1 1/2" in, to about 3" high. This is usually done by rounding

the

corner a bit. Small gas struts on the front can help make the doors easier
to open.

......bobp

--------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 03:01 PM 9/17/99 +1200, you wrote:
This is a progress report on Rebel 387 from Gore New Zealand.
The 20,000th rivet was fitted yesterday. About to start building one piece
top opening doors. Solid blocks have been fitted up main carry throughs for
spring gear. 8.50 x 6 tyres and larger pneumatic tail wheel fitted. Tail
cone and wing attach points doublers all fitted. Internal skins fitted
between door post and fire wall. Firewall strengthened and moved 3" for

0-320.

Question? In what way are the fibre glass tail wheel springs

unsatisfactory?

Peter Kempthorne.
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content='"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>This is a progress report on Rebel 387 from Gore

New

Zealand.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>The 20,000th rivet was fitted yesterday. About to
start
building one piece top opening doors. Solid blocks have been fitted up

main

carry throughs for spring gear. 8.50 x 6 tyres and larger pneumatic tail

wheel

fitted. Tail cone and wing attach points doublers all fitted. Internal

skins

fitted between door post and fire wall. Firewall strengthened and moved
3"
for 0-320.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>Question?  In what way are the fibre glass

tail

wheel springs unsatisfactory?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>Peter

Kempthorne. </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*

Charles Skorupa · Post by **Charles Skorupa** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:26 pm

The taildragger Elite tail spring appears to be an area that has been
significantly redesigned and improved from the Rebel. The design has been
changed to a steel tube, actually two tubes nestled together, very similar
to the Van's RV design. The spring is about 3 ft long. It anchors to a
fitting attached to reinforcing structure in the area of the fuselage rear
bulkhead/vertical stabilizer forward attachment. There is a pivot fitting
that is sort of gimballed and attaches to structure that is an extension of
the vertical stabiulizer rear spar. The tube slides through this pivot and
attaches solid to the forward fitting. The tailwheel uses a solid wheel
with a breakaway mechanism similar to the Rebel. The tailwheel assembly has
a cast fitting with a socket to accept the round tailspring.
I don't know what the spring material is since Murphy doesn't provide
engineering drawings, but Van's uses 6150 steel. I am not sure how this
could be retrofit to a Rebel since the Elite structure is very different and
appears to be much beefier in the tail cone area. Some of this is no doubt
due to the cantilever horizontal stabilizer, but I can't help thinking that
Murphy took the opportunity of the Elite model change to beef things up in
this area. One positive is that many of the hard to get parts (steel spring
tube, tailwheel assembly, pivot fitting etc.) are now off the shelf at
Murphy. Also, since there are few Elites flying and probably even fewer in
rugged service, there is little history to prove out the updated design.
However, since it is so similar to the RV design, and probably some other
certified design that I am unaware of, it looks pretty encouraging.
There are pictures of the Elite in this area at
http://beta.content.communities.msn.com ... w_photo&ID
_Community=NWReb

elExperimentalAircraft&ID_Topic=5&ID_Message=27
.. For those of you with browsers where you must type in the url longhand,
it might be easier to start at
http://beta.communities.msn.com/NWRebel ... t/homepage and go
to the photo area "Rebel Elite - MAM" Album.

- Chuck Skorupa -
Rebel Elite 500E (taildragger, of course!)

From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>(Murphy Rebel Builders List)
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: update on 387
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:59:57 +1200

Hi All,

The new aluminum tail springs are very rigid. To much so,I think, to use
with the Murphy supplied tail wheel.

But used with say, a Scott or Matco pneumatic tail wheel, they work really
well and are very robust. These tail wheels have a longer 'leverage' and
you
seem to gain more flex out of the spring as well as the 'give' in the
pneumatic tyre as well.

Cheers

Alister

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, September 18, 1999 5:04 AM
Subject: Re: update on 387

Sounds like you're really making progress !!

Some folks think the fibreglass tailsprings are too 'bouncey', and
tend
to break. If used full length, they tend to twist sideways considerably,
which might affect handing. They generally ARE shipped a little too
long,
but can work well if shortened by a couple of inches.

I only know of 2 "failures" - one when a Rebel was stood on its nose,
and allowed to drop onto the tailwheel. This broke the fibreglass ! The
other
'failure' was on my Rebel - after 8 years out in the sun, and many
landings
on rough grass strips, the fibreglass started to delaminate. A sleeve & a
bolt held it until I could get a replacement. I now have fibreglass
springs
on both our Rebels - I like them !

Did try an early aluminum 'spring' - it flattenned out in less than
a
year. The newer aluminum 'springs' are much thicker, so should last
longer.
(they really don't have much 'spring', though .... )

Several people have done swing-up doors. It might be easier to have
the
window swing up, as well ... One consideration is reworking the bottom
front of the door frame to move it back a bit to clear the strut. You
only
need about 1 1/2" in, to about 3" high. This is usually done by rounding
the
corner a bit. Small gas struts on the front can help make the doors
easier
to open.

......bobp

--------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 03:01 PM 9/17/99 +1200, you wrote:
This is a progress report on Rebel 387 from Gore New Zealand.
The 20,000th rivet was fitted yesterday. About to start building one
piece
top opening doors. Solid blocks have been fitted up main carry throughs
for
spring gear. 8.50 x 6 tyres and larger pneumatic tail wheel fitted. Tail
cone and wing attach points doublers all fitted. Internal skins fitted
between door post and fire wall. Firewall strengthened and moved 3" for
0-320.
Question? In what way are the fibre glass tail wheel springs
unsatisfactory?
Peter Kempthorne.
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content='"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>This is a progress report on Rebel 387 from
Gore
New
Zealand.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>The 20,000th rivet was fitted yesterday. About
to
start
building one piece top opening doors. Solid blocks have been fitted up
main
carry throughs for spring gear. 8.50 x 6 tyres and larger pneumatic tail
wheel
fitted. Tail cone and wing attach points doublers all fitted. Internal
skins
fitted between door post and fire wall. Firewall strengthened and moved
3"
for 0-320.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>Question?  In what way are the fibre glass
tail
wheel springs unsatisfactory?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>Peter
Kempthorne. </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*

*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*

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