The Murphy Builders Site

Hi all, got a couple questions...
First, for riveting the wing skins to the outer most rib, there is a note in
the newer MAM that those should be CS rivets (RV 4412). I take it that this
applies to the Leading edge section too, i.e. RV 4412 rivets for the entire
outer rib fore and aft of the main spar?

Second, I need advice on a problems closing up the top main skin. I find that
about 6-8 rivet holes on the back of the root rib no longer align perfectly
with the top skin holes. Same problem as I round the corner -- there is a
small bit of misalignment between the first 8 holes (starting from root) in
the rear spar to top skin. I'm not sure how this came about because
everything was good when all together with clecos -- perhaps a slight change
with proseal? Anyway, I think the fix for this is drill these oversize and
use 5/32 rivets, or if necessary for the last couple holes at the corner,
3/16. Does this sound reasonable?

PS: If anyone has extra RV 4412 (and possibly a handful of RV-1512 (5/32)
they'd like to sell, let me know, otherwise I'll just order some from Murphy.
Thanks,
-Ben/ 496R
PPS: Glad to hear about a completion and big smiles on the Elite completion.
Congratulations!



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Hi Ben

bransom@dcsol.com wrote:

Hi all, got a couple questions...
First, for riveting the wing skins to the outer most rib, there is a note in
the newer MAM that those should be CS rivets (RV 4412). I take it that this
applies to the Leading edge section too, i.e. RV 4412 rivets for the entire
outer rib fore and aft of the main spar?

Yes as the wingtip will cover these. However if I did this again I'd be
tempted to use less than the manual suggests and plan where the
screws/rivets were going to go that hold the wingtip. Adding a screw
between some of the recommended ones gets pretty tight and I that was
usually where I had flutes in the rib flange...

Second, I need advice on a problems closing up the top main skin. I find that
about 6-8 rivet holes on the back of the root rib no longer align perfectly
with the top skin holes. Same problem as I round the corner -- there is a
small bit of misalignment between the first 8 holes (starting from root) in
the rear spar to top skin. I'm not sure how this came about because
everything was good when all together with clecos -- perhaps a slight change
with proseal? Anyway, I think the fix for this is drill these oversize and
use 5/32 rivets, or if necessary for the last couple holes at the corner,
3/16. Does this sound reasonable?

Yup I had a few like this behind the tank and MAM recommended using 5/32
rivets. It worked nicely and is hardly noticeable.
I drew the holes together with a file so I could get the full 32nd of an
inch movement. Don't think you'd have sufficient edge distance in very
many places for 3/16 though.
Ken

PS: If anyone has extra RV 4412 (and possibly a handful of RV-1512 (5/32)
they'd like to sell, let me know, otherwise I'll just order some from Murphy.
Thanks,
-Ben/ 496R
PPS: Glad to hear about a completion and big smiles on the Elite completion.
Congratulations!

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Ben, it's been a long, long time since I built my wings, but do
remember that I needed an awful lot of clecos, a lot more than
MAM recommends to buy. First I drilled all the holes 3/32 size,
starting from the centre and working outwards, clecoing all the
way, and only removing some clecos near the centre as I ran out,
but still left a lot in place. Then this was repeated with #30
and the 1/8 clecos. When I did that, I don't ever recall an
alignment problem with holes.

You're probably already doing this, but thought I would mention
it, in case someone is not aware.

Also, I have these real nice short strong clecos that I don't
even know where you can buy these days. I got them from a Boeing
Surplus sale one time, and loaded up with a couple of buckets. I
just paid by the pound and they were very cheap at the time. Best
buy I ever made.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 6:51 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: rivet question (wing skins)


Hi Ben

bransom@dcsol.com wrote:

Hi all, got a couple questions...
First, for riveting the wing skins to the outer most

rib, there is a note in

the newer MAM that those should be CS rivets (RV

4412). I take it that this

applies to the Leading edge section too, i.e. RV 4412

rivets for the entire

outer rib fore and aft of the main spar?

Yes as the wingtip will cover these. However if I did
this again I'd be
tempted to use less than the manual suggests and plan
where the
screws/rivets were going to go that hold the wingtip.
Adding a screw
between some of the recommended ones gets pretty tight
and I that was
usually where I had flutes in the rib flange...

Second, I need advice on a problems closing up the

top main skin. I find that

about 6-8 rivet holes on the back of the root rib no

longer align perfectly

with the top skin holes. Same problem as I round the

corner -- there is a

small bit of misalignment between the first 8 holes

(starting from root) in

the rear spar to top skin. I'm not sure how this

came about because

everything was good when all together with clecos --

perhaps a slight change

with proseal? Anyway, I think the fix for this is

drill these oversize and

use 5/32 rivets, or if necessary for the last couple

holes at the corner,

3/16. Does this sound reasonable?

Yup I had a few like this behind the tank and MAM
recommended using 5/32
rivets. It worked nicely and is hardly noticeable.
I drew the holes together with a file so I could get
the full 32nd of an
inch movement. Don't think you'd have sufficient edge
distance in very
many places for 3/16 though.
Ken

PS: If anyone has extra RV 4412 (and possibly a

handful of RV-1512 (5/32)

they'd like to sell, let me know, otherwise I'll just

order some from Murphy.

Thanks,
-Ben/ 496R
PPS: Glad to hear about a completion and big smiles

on the Elite completion.

Congratulations!

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In a message dated 1/17/2005 6:23:00 PM Central Standard Time,
bransom@dcsol.com writes:

PS: If anyone has extra RV 4412 (and possibly a handful of RV-1512 (5/32)
they'd like to sell, let me know, otherwise I'll just order some from Murphy.
Thanks,



BEN
I have six 4412 you can have. I also have a bunch of MAM fixit rivets
5/32nds, but they're # 1601-0512 if that's what you're looking for?
Let me know and I can get them in the mail.
PDSmith




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Thanks all for the advice on the hole misalignment issue.
WRT rivets, I need enf of the 4412 (CS) that I'll just call MAM. Thanks for
the offer Phil.
Cheers,
-Ben

BEN
I have six 4412 you can have. I also have a bunch of MAM fixit rivets
5/32nds, but they're # 1601-0512 if that's what you're looking for?
Let me know and I can get them in the mail.
PDSmith

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