The Murphy Builders Site

Greetings Rebel Group:

I am returning to work on the Rebel after a lengthy break from drills
and deburring tools and need to get some stuff sorted out before I
commence! I apologize in advance for the long post, but hopefully my
questions may help someone with wire routing questions in the future as
I have now.

I am building a Rebel with the standard firewall and plan to install an
O320-D2A (160hp). Electrical will be day/night VFR. Basic fuselage is
complete, but I have not installed the interior forward inside floor
skin and corner wraps yet. If my plan is viable, I would like to run the
wiring from the tailcone, under the corner wrap skin starting at "A" and
"F" bulkheads, forward to their respective termination points. My main
thrust is safety and to keep the floors clean with minimal wiring and
fuel lines exposed. Note: Fuel line routing questions will be addressed
in my next post.

The Wiring Routing Plan:
Since the starter is on the left side of the engine, my plan is to mount
an Odyssey PC680 at the LEFT aft ledge between "D" and "E" bulkhead (as
far aft as possible, above the finished floor). Wiring will then route
forward, just above the corner wrap ledges, through all bulkheads. Once
I get forward of bulkhead "A", the wire will dive down through the ledge
between "A" and "F" (into flexible conduit), under the corner wrap area,
running forward through the factory "mouse holes" and through the lower
1/2 inch holes at both FUS-2

Terry,

Sorry I don't have any suggestions or comments.
However I am looking forward to hearing some responses as I
will have the same questions sometime around July.

Brad.



On 1/5/2005 10:20 AM, DAZEY@EARTHLINK.NET wrote to REBEL-BUILDERS:

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-> Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 11:20:02 -0800
-> From: Terry Dazey <dazey@earthlink.net>
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-> Greetings Rebel Group:
->
-> I am returning to work on the Rebel after a lengthy break from drills
-> and deburring tools and need to get some stuff sorted out before I
-> commence! I apologize in advance for the long post, but hopefully my
-> questions may help someone with wire routing questions in the future as
-> I have now.
->
-> I am building a Rebel with the standard firewall and plan to install an
-> O320-D2A (160hp). Electrical will be day/night VFR. Basic fuselage is
-> complete, but I have not installed the interior forward inside floor
-> skin and corner wraps yet. If my plan is viable, I would like to run the
-> wiring from the tailcone, under the corner wrap skin starting at "A" and
-> "F" bulkheads, forward to their respective termination points. My main
-> thrust is safety and to keep the floors clean with minimal wiring and
-> fuel lines exposed. Note: Fuel line routing questions will be addressed
-> in my next post.
->
-> The Wiring Routing Plan:
-> Since the starter is on the left side of the engine, my plan is to mount
-> an Odyssey PC680 at the LEFT aft ledge between "D" and "E" bulkhead (as
-> far aft as possible, above the finished floor). Wiring will then route
-> forward, just above the corner wrap ledges, through all bulkheads. Once
-> I get forward of bulkhead "A", the wire will dive down through the ledge
-> between "A" and "F" (into flexible conduit), under the corner wrap area,
-> running forward through the factory "mouse holes" and through the lower
-> 1/2 inch holes at both FUS-2

Terry #1 is ideal and what I ran thru Howard's airframe. I just moved my
battery to the back when I did my hydraulic ski installation and "cheated"
with #4 that I had hanging on the shop wall. Seems to do the trick but will
be more certain as the winter goes on after some -30* starts. I use a Gill
25 but understand the PC680 is enough battery. Did a rebuild a couple years
ago and that was what was cranking over a "boosted" O-320 with angle valve
cylinder exp engine and it started just fine.

There is no problem drilling both of the "tooling" hole locations in the
FUS-2-1's to 1/2". I've done quite a few wrecks now with considerable door
post/carrythru damage and none of them have had any deformation under the
FUS-2 gussets or rivet shear anywhere on these gussets. Severe buckling of
the post tubes above them, square tubes ripped apart etc..but never any
damage in the gusset area or the holes drilled thru same.

Try to run your battery run as isolated from everything else as you can and
make sure it is well grommeted. The only wire I would run right with it is
the ground wire running to the master switch from the master
solenoid....everything else bundle separately and run a different path. I
find the battery cable to starter etc thru the lower hole in Fus-2 works
well to run it right along the seam from the side panel Fus-11 to the lower
corner wrap and thru the firewall. Then all the other wires thru the upper
Fus-2 hole and up the post to the back side of the panel.

Antenna wires. If you are putting them on the fairings between fus and
wing...can be simply run up the forward side of the door post (and hid
behind moulded headliner if using same) and then out under the gap in the
windshield at the wing attach fitting.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Dazey" <dazey@earthlink.net>
To: "Murphy Group" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 2:20 PM
Subject: Rebel Wiring Routing Plan


[quote]Greetings Rebel Group:

I am returning to work on the Rebel after a lengthy break from drills
and deburring tools and need to get some stuff sorted out before I
commence! I apologize in advance for the long post, but hopefully my
questions may help someone with wire routing questions in the future as
I have now.

I am building a Rebel with the standard firewall and plan to install an
O320-D2A (160hp). Electrical will be day/night VFR. Basic fuselage is
complete, but I have not installed the interior forward inside floor
skin and corner wraps yet. If my plan is viable, I would like to run the
wiring from the tailcone, under the corner wrap skin starting at "A" and
"F" bulkheads, forward to their respective termination points. My main
thrust is safety and to keep the floors clean with minimal wiring and
fuel lines exposed. Note: Fuel line routing questions will be addressed
in my next post.

The Wiring Routing Plan:
Since the starter is on the left side of the engine, my plan is to mount
an Odyssey PC680 at the LEFT aft ledge between "D" and "E" bulkhead (as
far aft as possible, above the finished floor). Wiring will then route
forward, just above the corner wrap ledges, through all bulkheads. Once
I get forward of bulkhead "A", the wire will dive down through the ledge
between "A" and "F" (into flexible conduit), under the corner wrap area,
running forward through the factory "mouse holes" and through the lower
1/2 inch holes at both FUS-2

Hi Terry I have a PC680 in the back and with the toyota starter it cranks
my 0-290 almost fast enough to taxi. Your wiring plan seems to be a good
one. I started with my battery on the inside on the firewall and had to
move it so my wires are exposed running under the passenger door. One thing
I did differently was to use the airframe as a ground instead of running 2
heavy wires all the way to the front.

At 11:20 AM 1/5/2005 -0800, you wrote:
[quote]Greetings Rebel Group:

I am returning to work on the Rebel after a lengthy break from drills
and deburring tools and need to get some stuff sorted out before I
commence! I apologize in advance for the long post, but hopefully my
questions may help someone with wire routing questions in the future as
I have now.

I am building a Rebel with the standard firewall and plan to install an
O320-D2A (160hp). Electrical will be day/night VFR. Basic fuselage is
complete, but I have not installed the interior forward inside floor
skin and corner wraps yet. If my plan is viable, I would like to run the
wiring from the tailcone, under the corner wrap skin starting at "A" and
"F" bulkheads, forward to their respective termination points. My main
thrust is safety and to keep the floors clean with minimal wiring and
fuel lines exposed. Note: Fuel line routing questions will be addressed
in my next post.

The Wiring Routing Plan:
Since the starter is on the left side of the engine, my plan is to mount
an Odyssey PC680 at the LEFT aft ledge between "D" and "E" bulkhead (as
far aft as possible, above the finished floor). Wiring will then route
forward, just above the corner wrap ledges, through all bulkheads. Once
I get forward of bulkhead "A", the wire will dive down through the ledge
between "A" and "F" (into flexible conduit), under the corner wrap area,
running forward through the factory "mouse holes" and through the lower
1/2 inch holes at both FUS-2

The aeroelectric list generally recommends 4awg only if the battery is
on the firewall, and 2awg if the battery is further away. You can get an
idea of the different voltage drops by assuming about 200 amps of
starter current. Heavier is indeed better but it quickly gets to be one
of those diminishing returns things. There is a good section in the
aeroelectric book on this. Each connection also adds a bit of voltage drop.

You might want to check
http://www.PerihelionDesign.com
Eric sells copper clad battery cables - lighter than copper but none of
the problems of aluminum.

Perhaps the largest risk with these little batteries is separation of
the battery post. Using extremely flexible cable such as welding cable
for at least the short lengths from the battery to the battery contactor
and from the battery to ground is probably a good idea. Actually it is a
good idea with any battery and many builders use it for the entire cable
run.

I ended up making a trays with 1" high sides and then about a 2" wide
aluminum strap to hold the batteries down. Mine are smaller than the
PC680 but I was able to fit them on the floor between the firewall and
the rudder pedals.

Ken

Terry Dazey wrote:

snip

3. If the PC680 battery and location is acceptable, what gage cable is
optimum for this long of a run? Tony Bingelis book says #1/0 AWG wire
from the battery Master Solenoid forward to the starter solenoid at the
firewall. An electronic acquaintance of mine said that #4 gage would do
the job.
4. If someone else has accomplished a similar installation using the
PC680 or equal, do you have any installation pics of the battery
mounting available?

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