The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:54 am**

I'm still experimenting on approach speeds, but, about 70 carrying a bit
of power seems to be my current sweet spot. On a power-off approach I
have to hold almost 80 or there is no elevator left for flair. At 70,
when I pull the power over the runway, it drops big time--one has to be
ready to touch down or else.

I'm sure I could get it shorter than ~ 1,200' if I used brake with the
70 approach speed. The problem there is that I have to have a lot of
oil (weight) in the baggage area or, upon touchdown, using brakes makes
it really, really prone to want to tip up on the nose. Full aft stick
and a feather-touch on the brakes is the best I've done so far. In
other words, practicing short landings solo is really not a valid test;
the plane just handles much differently with a full load.

With a lot of time in a Maule, it was much different. The Maule didn't
have near the useful load so I didn't see that much difference in ground
handling when solo. The Moose has such a large useful load that there
is a big difference between solo and loaded ground handling. I'm no
expert, but that is my strong impression anyway. The Moose is built to
haul a load; not to land like a super cub or Maule, in my humble
opinion.

I don't like to drag a plane in on final just to enable a shorter
landing; if you lose the engine you're toast.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
larry173
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 7:49 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rebel trim tab throw

I am told by another Moose owner that if you go too slow, I think
arountd
65mph on final that the tail wants to sink and there is nothing you can
do
about it. He did the M14 radial prior to Mam so maybe the c of g is
different. Is yours a Mam conversion? Or is the horizontal stab too
small.
He said it prevented him from doing stol landings. Any comments.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman@i1ci.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 9:32 AM
Subject: RE: Rebel trim tab throw

I don't know about the Rebel, but, when I put a lot of baggage (re
camping equipment and food) plus my wife and kids in my Moose, I have
to have nearly full forward trim.

I try to have 1/2 aft trim for landing. I want to be able to do a
go-around without having to use both (weak) arms on the stick trying
to keep it from going vertical <grin> with full power.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Jesse Jenks
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 8:14 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Rebel trim tab throw

I got my trim servo installed with nutplates and the pushrod all
fitted. I only drilled one hole in the horn, right at the end. As
currently adjusted,
anticipating a need for more nose up trim than nose down, I have about
1" of
trim tab down throw at the trailing edge, and about 5/8" up. Will this
be
enough, or do I need to drill another hole further down the horn?
Problem is
that I had to "scallop" out the edge of the horn quite a bit for

clevis

clearance so if I make another hole it will have to be quite far down.
Thanks Jesse

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:54 am**

Hi Ted,

Sounds like some good and some not as good, in your description. 70
isn't too bad, but 80 really gets my attention. Is your 1200' number
on asphalt? The fact that the Moose doesn't seem to float, from your
indication, is good. What's your impression of the flaps? First
couple of notches add lift? Last notch really crank in the drag, like
I'm hoping? I'm operating from a 2000' grass strip, with alright
approaches (low wires about 250' from one end and tall trees about
600' from the other end). R.J. might describe this differently.
Sounds like the Moose will work, but it doesn't sound real comfy.
What do you think? Others flying Mooses (Meese???) have opinions? I
was kind of hoping for easy ops of less than 1000' at light weights.
Am I in for a surprise? Don't know which Maule you flew, but it
sounds like the Moose isn't nearly the short field plane that your
Maule was. You agree? My wife doesn't like trees in the windshield
and I'm starting to wonder...

Some guys might not like to discuss flight characteristics as much,
but I, for one, want to know as much as possible about this stuff.

Bill Delcambre

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 08:32:26 -0700, Ted Waltman <tedwaltman@i1ci.com> wrote:

I'm still experimenting on approach speeds, but, about 70 carrying a bit
of power seems to be my current sweet spot. On a power-off approach I
have to hold almost 80 or there is no elevator left for flair. At 70,
when I pull the power over the runway, it drops big time--one has to be
ready to touch down or else.

I'm sure I could get it shorter than ~ 1,200' if I used brake with the
70 approach speed. The problem there is that I have to have a lot of
oil (weight) in the baggage area or, upon touchdown, using brakes makes
it really, really prone to want to tip up on the nose. Full aft stick
and a feather-touch on the brakes is the best I've done so far. In
other words, practicing short landings solo is really not a valid test;
the plane just handles much differently with a full load.

With a lot of time in a Maule, it was much different. The Maule didn't
have near the useful load so I didn't see that much difference in ground
handling when solo. The Moose has such a large useful load that there
is a big difference between solo and loaded ground handling. I'm no
expert, but that is my strong impression anyway. The Moose is built to
haul a load; not to land like a super cub or Maule, in my humble
opinion.

I don't like to drag a plane in on final just to enable a shorter
landing; if you lose the engine you're toast.

Ted

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:54 am**

Ted and Bill,
I can give 2 cents worth for a lyc powered Moose. With floats or
conventional gear it takes about 1/2 of our 1950' grass runway to get
stopped. I do use brakes but not until well under control and mostly
because I'm back taxiing and don't want to go any farther down the runway.
Conventional gear I do a steep approach at about 65-70 MPH and add power to
arrest the sink, about 500 feet short of the threshold (over the power
lines). The last few landings have been with full flaps adding the last
notch an short final. At higher speed I do get float and a springy bouncing,
with a little more practice I think I can turn those faster landings into a
wheel landing. There is always plenty of elevator authority, I have not seen
any elevator authority problems.
On floats lots of drag and when I cut the power the sink is right now. I use
the same technique but carry a faster approach speed, 70-80 MPH. In the
flair the speed bleeds off fast, very controllable float at 80 MPH.
With the round engine and solo I would put at least 100 lbs in the baggage
area, and shoot for at least 15" of aft CG.
Al
Moose N526AP
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Delcambre" <bdaileron@gmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Moose approach speed; STOL performance

Hi Ted,

Sounds like some good and some not as good, in your description. 70
isn't too bad, but 80 really gets my attention. Is your 1200' number
on asphalt? The fact that the Moose doesn't seem to float, from your
indication, is good. What's your impression of the flaps? First
couple of notches add lift? Last notch really crank in the drag, like
I'm hoping? I'm operating from a 2000' grass strip, with alright
approaches (low wires about 250' from one end and tall trees about
600' from the other end). R.J. might describe this differently.
Sounds like the Moose will work, but it doesn't sound real comfy.
What do you think? Others flying Mooses (Meese???) have opinions? I
was kind of hoping for easy ops of less than 1000' at light weights.
Am I in for a surprise? Don't know which Maule you flew, but it
sounds like the Moose isn't nearly the short field plane that your
Maule was. You agree? My wife doesn't like trees in the windshield
and I'm starting to wonder...

Some guys might not like to discuss flight characteristics as much,
but I, for one, want to know as much as possible about this stuff.

Bill Delcambre

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 08:32:26 -0700, Ted Waltman <tedwaltman@i1ci.com>
wrote:
I'm still experimenting on approach speeds, but, about 70 carrying a bit
of power seems to be my current sweet spot. On a power-off approach I
have to hold almost 80 or there is no elevator left for flair. At 70,
when I pull the power over the runway, it drops big time--one has to be
ready to touch down or else.

I'm sure I could get it shorter than ~ 1,200' if I used brake with the
70 approach speed. The problem there is that I have to have a lot of
oil (weight) in the baggage area or, upon touchdown, using brakes makes
it really, really prone to want to tip up on the nose. Full aft stick
and a feather-touch on the brakes is the best I've done so far. In
other words, practicing short landings solo is really not a valid test;
the plane just handles much differently with a full load.

With a lot of time in a Maule, it was much different. The Maule didn't
have near the useful load so I didn't see that much difference in ground
handling when solo. The Moose has such a large useful load that there
is a big difference between solo and loaded ground handling. I'm no
expert, but that is my strong impression anyway. The Moose is built to
haul a load; not to land like a super cub or Maule, in my humble
opinion.

I don't like to drag a plane in on final just to enable a shorter
landing; if you lose the engine you're toast.

Ted

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:54 am**

What happened to all the great numbers that MAM has been telling me or
giving in the brochures about 600' to land a MOOSE .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Paxhia" <paxhia2@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: Moose approach speed; STOL performance

Ted and Bill,
I can give 2 cents worth for a lyc powered Moose. With floats or
conventional gear it takes about 1/2 of our 1950' grass runway to get
stopped. I do use brakes but not until well under control and mostly
because I'm back taxiing and don't want to go any farther down the runway.
Conventional gear I do a steep approach at about 65-70 MPH and add power

to

arrest the sink, about 500 feet short of the threshold (over the power
lines). The last few landings have been with full flaps adding the last
notch an short final. At higher speed I do get float and a springy

bouncing,

with a little more practice I think I can turn those faster landings into

a

wheel landing. There is always plenty of elevator authority, I have not

seen

any elevator authority problems.
On floats lots of drag and when I cut the power the sink is right now. I

use

the same technique but carry a faster approach speed, 70-80 MPH. In the
flair the speed bleeds off fast, very controllable float at 80 MPH.
With the round engine and solo I would put at least 100 lbs in the baggage
area, and shoot for at least 15" of aft CG.
Al
Moose N526AP
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Delcambre" <bdaileron@gmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Moose approach speed; STOL performance

Hi Ted,

Sounds like some good and some not as good, in your description. 70
isn't too bad, but 80 really gets my attention. Is your 1200' number
on asphalt? The fact that the Moose doesn't seem to float, from your
indication, is good. What's your impression of the flaps? First
couple of notches add lift? Last notch really crank in the drag, like
I'm hoping? I'm operating from a 2000' grass strip, with alright
approaches (low wires about 250' from one end and tall trees about
600' from the other end). R.J. might describe this differently.
Sounds like the Moose will work, but it doesn't sound real comfy.
What do you think? Others flying Mooses (Meese???) have opinions? I
was kind of hoping for easy ops of less than 1000' at light weights.
Am I in for a surprise? Don't know which Maule you flew, but it
sounds like the Moose isn't nearly the short field plane that your
Maule was. You agree? My wife doesn't like trees in the windshield
and I'm starting to wonder...

Some guys might not like to discuss flight characteristics as much,
but I, for one, want to know as much as possible about this stuff.

Bill Delcambre

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 08:32:26 -0700, Ted Waltman <tedwaltman@i1ci.com>
wrote:
I'm still experimenting on approach speeds, but, about 70 carrying a

bit

of power seems to be my current sweet spot. On a power-off approach I
have to hold almost 80 or there is no elevator left for flair. At 70,
when I pull the power over the runway, it drops big time--one has to be
ready to touch down or else.

I'm sure I could get it shorter than ~ 1,200' if I used brake with the
70 approach speed. The problem there is that I have to have a lot of
oil (weight) in the baggage area or, upon touchdown, using brakes makes
it really, really prone to want to tip up on the nose. Full aft stick
and a feather-touch on the brakes is the best I've done so far. In
other words, practicing short landings solo is really not a valid test;
the plane just handles much differently with a full load.

With a lot of time in a Maule, it was much different. The Maule didn't
have near the useful load so I didn't see that much difference in

ground

handling when solo. The Moose has such a large useful load that there
is a big difference between solo and loaded ground handling. I'm no
expert, but that is my strong impression anyway. The Moose is built to
haul a load; not to land like a super cub or Maule, in my humble
opinion.

I don't like to drag a plane in on final just to enable a shorter
landing; if you lose the engine you're toast.

Ted

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:54 am**

For perhaps the first 60+ hours I was at 80 on downwind & base, slowing
to no less than 75 on final. With my Maule I'll bet I did 3-point
landings 98%+ of the time; the Moose seems to want to do wheel landings
unless I really have it loaded down with people & bags. Most of my
landings (~80%) are on asphalt and probably 1,500 to 2,000' down the
strip before I'm stopped (I'm not touching down right at the end mind
you--perhaps ~300' from the end on average).

The 1st two notches of flaps do provide lift; the last seems like pure
drag, as you infer.

I don't have VG's on the Moose as I did on my Maule; perhaps they would
provide some extra margin for landing short/slow. As Wayne said, I
think I just have to experiment more with additional power coupled with
additional angle-of-attack to get it in slower--then chop the power
right at the threshold.

Four items are definitely worth noting. 1) You'll want to do the carb
mod as noted on Kimball's website--if you get low & slow and need power
you'll want it immediately; 2) You run out of elevator before you run
out of airspeed; 3) The Moose is way nose-heavy if you're solo--put some
ballast in the back!; 4) If you bounce you bounce big with the spring
gear (well, I've heard this, never really experienced it myself <grin>.

By way of reference, I have 400 hours in a Maule and now 100 in the
Moose, so I'm no expert on short-field landings with tailwheel planes.
Perhaps I'll get it consistently stopped in less than 1,000', but that
will probably be a while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Bill Delcambre
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 12:54 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Moose approach speed; STOL performance

Hi Ted,

Sounds like some good and some not as good, in your description. 70
isn't too bad, but 80 really gets my attention. Is your 1200' number on
asphalt? The fact that the Moose doesn't seem to float, from your
indication, is good. What's your impression of the flaps? First couple
of notches add lift? Last notch really crank in the drag, like I'm
hoping? I'm operating from a 2000' grass strip, with alright approaches
(low wires about 250' from one end and tall trees about 600' from the
other end). R.J. might describe this differently.
Sounds like the Moose will work, but it doesn't sound real comfy.
What do you think? Others flying Mooses (Meese???) have opinions? I
was kind of hoping for easy ops of less than 1000' at light weights.
Am I in for a surprise? Don't know which Maule you flew, but it sounds
like the Moose isn't nearly the short field plane that your Maule was.
You agree? My wife doesn't like trees in the windshield and I'm
starting to wonder...

Some guys might not like to discuss flight characteristics as much, but
I, for one, want to know as much as possible about this stuff.

Bill Delcambre

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 08:32:26 -0700, Ted Waltman <tedwaltman@i1ci.com>
wrote:

I'm still experimenting on approach speeds, but, about 70 carrying a
bit of power seems to be my current sweet spot. On a power-off
approach I have to hold almost 80 or there is no elevator left for
flair. At 70, when I pull the power over the runway, it drops big
time--one has to be ready to touch down or else.

I'm sure I could get it shorter than ~ 1,200' if I used brake with the

70 approach speed. The problem there is that I have to have a lot of
oil (weight) in the baggage area or, upon touchdown, using brakes
makes it really, really prone to want to tip up on the nose. Full aft

stick and a feather-touch on the brakes is the best I've done so far.

In other words, practicing short landings solo is really not a valid
test; the plane just handles much differently with a full load.

With a lot of time in a Maule, it was much different. The Maule
didn't have near the useful load so I didn't see that much difference
in ground handling when solo. The Moose has such a large useful load
that there is a big difference between solo and loaded ground
handling. I'm no expert, but that is my strong impression anyway.
The Moose is built to haul a load; not to land like a super cub or
Maule, in my humble opinion.

I don't like to drag a plane in on final just to enable a shorter
landing; if you lose the engine you're toast.

Ted

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:54 am**

Well I'm for sure not putting enough weight back there, nowhere near 100
lbs. Perhaps that would make me feel more comfortable getting it
stopped sooner...Ah...another reason that I have to go out to the
airport! I'll also have to slow it down another 5mph.

I'll try both and report back in a week (way too cold for me today
anyway)!

Thanks for the suggestions Al.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Al
Paxhia
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 3:17 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Moose approach speed; STOL performance

Ted and Bill,
I can give 2 cents worth for a lyc powered Moose. With floats or
conventional gear it takes about 1/2 of our 1950' grass runway to get
stopped. I do use brakes but not until well under control and mostly
because I'm back taxiing and don't want to go any farther down the
runway. Conventional gear I do a steep approach at about 65-70 MPH and
add power to
arrest the sink, about 500 feet short of the threshold (over the power
lines). The last few landings have been with full flaps adding the last
notch an short final. At higher speed I do get float and a springy
bouncing,
with a little more practice I think I can turn those faster landings
into a
wheel landing. There is always plenty of elevator authority, I have not
seen
any elevator authority problems.
On floats lots of drag and when I cut the power the sink is right now. I
use
the same technique but carry a faster approach speed, 70-80 MPH. In the
flair the speed bleeds off fast, very controllable float at 80 MPH. With
the round engine and solo I would put at least 100 lbs in the baggage
area, and shoot for at least 15" of aft CG.
Al
Moose N526AP
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Delcambre" <bdaileron@gmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Moose approach speed; STOL performance

Hi Ted,

Sounds like some good and some not as good, in your description. 70
isn't too bad, but 80 really gets my attention. Is your 1200' number
on asphalt? The fact that the Moose doesn't seem to float, from your
indication, is good. What's your impression of the flaps? First
couple of notches add lift? Last notch really crank in the drag, like

I'm hoping? I'm operating from a 2000' grass strip, with alright
approaches (low wires about 250' from one end and tall trees about
600' from the other end). R.J. might describe this differently.
Sounds like the Moose will work, but it doesn't sound real comfy. What

do you think? Others flying Mooses (Meese???) have opinions? I was
kind of hoping for easy ops of less than 1000' at light weights. Am I
in for a surprise? Don't know which Maule you flew, but it sounds
like the Moose isn't nearly the short field plane that your Maule was.

You agree? My wife doesn't like trees in the windshield and I'm
starting to wonder...

Some guys might not like to discuss flight characteristics as much,
but I, for one, want to know as much as possible about this stuff.

Bill Delcambre

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 08:32:26 -0700, Ted Waltman <tedwaltman@i1ci.com>
wrote:
I'm still experimenting on approach speeds, but, about 70 carrying a
bit of power seems to be my current sweet spot. On a power-off
approach I have to hold almost 80 or there is no elevator left for
flair. At 70, when I pull the power over the runway, it drops big
time--one has to be ready to touch down or else.

I'm sure I could get it shorter than ~ 1,200' if I used brake with
the 70 approach speed. The problem there is that I have to have a
lot of oil (weight) in the baggage area or, upon touchdown, using
brakes makes it really, really prone to want to tip up on the nose.
Full aft stick and a feather-touch on the brakes is the best I've
done so far. In other words, practicing short landings solo is
really not a valid test; the plane just handles much differently with

a full load.

With a lot of time in a Maule, it was much different. The Maule
didn't have near the useful load so I didn't see that much difference

in ground handling when solo. The Moose has such a large useful load

that there is a big difference between solo and loaded ground
handling. I'm no expert, but that is my strong impression anyway.
The Moose is built to haul a load; not to land like a super cub or
Maule, in my humble opinion.

I don't like to drag a plane in on final just to enable a shorter
landing; if you lose the engine you're toast.

Ted

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:54 am**

More better skilled polits than I are.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Fultz" <dfultz@countryilink.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: Moose approach speed; STOL performance

What happened to all the great numbers that MAM has been telling me or
giving in the brochures about 600' to land a MOOSE .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Paxhia" <paxhia2@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: Moose approach speed; STOL performance

Ted and Bill,
I can give 2 cents worth for a lyc powered Moose. With floats or
conventional gear it takes about 1/2 of our 1950' grass runway to get
stopped. I do use brakes but not until well under control and mostly
because I'm back taxiing and don't want to go any farther down the
runway.
Conventional gear I do a steep approach at about 65-70 MPH and add power
to
arrest the sink, about 500 feet short of the threshold (over the power
lines). The last few landings have been with full flaps adding the last
notch an short final. At higher speed I do get float and a springy
bouncing,
with a little more practice I think I can turn those faster landings into
a
wheel landing. There is always plenty of elevator authority, I have not
seen
any elevator authority problems.
On floats lots of drag and when I cut the power the sink is right now. I
use
the same technique but carry a faster approach speed, 70-80 MPH. In the
flair the speed bleeds off fast, very controllable float at 80 MPH.
With the round engine and solo I would put at least 100 lbs in the
baggage
area, and shoot for at least 15" of aft CG.
Al
Moose N526AP
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Delcambre" <bdaileron@gmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Moose approach speed; STOL performance

Hi Ted,

Sounds like some good and some not as good, in your description. 70
isn't too bad, but 80 really gets my attention. Is your 1200' number
on asphalt? The fact that the Moose doesn't seem to float, from your
indication, is good. What's your impression of the flaps? First
couple of notches add lift? Last notch really crank in the drag, like
I'm hoping? I'm operating from a 2000' grass strip, with alright
approaches (low wires about 250' from one end and tall trees about
600' from the other end). R.J. might describe this differently.
Sounds like the Moose will work, but it doesn't sound real comfy.
What do you think? Others flying Mooses (Meese???) have opinions? I
was kind of hoping for easy ops of less than 1000' at light weights.
Am I in for a surprise? Don't know which Maule you flew, but it
sounds like the Moose isn't nearly the short field plane that your
Maule was. You agree? My wife doesn't like trees in the windshield
and I'm starting to wonder...

Some guys might not like to discuss flight characteristics as much,
but I, for one, want to know as much as possible about this stuff.

Bill Delcambre

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 08:32:26 -0700, Ted Waltman <tedwaltman@i1ci.com>
wrote:
bit
ground

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:54 am**

Hey, Al, you into the sauce already??

My solution to anyone that doesn't like how their airplane lands,
is put floats on. That will make everything better.

Anyway, Merry Xmas to everyone and more happy building and flying
in 2005.

Hope you guys out east aren't freezing too badly. Wanted to go
flying here today, but the fog got me.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Al
Paxhia
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 6:14 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Moose approach speed; STOL performance

More better skilled polits than I are.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Fultz" <dfultz@countryilink.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: Moose approach speed; STOL performance

What happened to all the great numbers that MAM has
been telling me or
giving in the brochures about 600' to land a MOOSE .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Paxhia" <paxhia2@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: Moose approach speed; STOL performance

Ted and Bill,
I can give 2 cents worth for a lyc powered Moose.
With floats or
conventional gear it takes about 1/2 of our 1950'
grass runway to get
stopped. I do use brakes but not until well under
control and mostly
because I'm back taxiing and don't want to go any
farther down the
runway.
Conventional gear I do a steep approach at about
65-70 MPH and add power
to
arrest the sink, about 500 feet short of the
threshold (over the power
lines). The last few landings have been with full
flaps adding the last
notch an short final. At higher speed I do get
float and a springy
bouncing,
with a little more practice I think I can turn
those faster landings into
a
wheel landing. There is always plenty of elevator
authority, I have not
seen
any elevator authority problems.
On floats lots of drag and when I cut the power the
sink is right now. I
use
the same technique but carry a faster approach
speed, 70-80 MPH. In the
flair the speed bleeds off fast, very controllable
float at 80 MPH.
With the round engine and solo I would put at least
100 lbs in the
baggage
area, and shoot for at least 15" of aft CG.
Al
Moose N526AP
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Delcambre" <bdaileron@gmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Moose approach speed; STOL performance

your description. 70
Is your 1200' number
to float, from your
the flaps? First
crank in the drag, like
strip, with alright
tall trees about
this differently.
sound real comfy.
(Meese???) have opinions? I
1000' at light weights.
you flew, but it
field plane that your
trees in the windshield
characteristics as much,
about this stuff.
<tedwaltman@i1ci.com>
about 70 carrying a
bit
a power-off approach I
left for flair. At 70,
big time--one has to
I used brake with the
have to have a lot of
touchdown, using brakes
nose. Full aft stick
I've done so far. In
really not a valid
different. The Maule
much difference in
ground
useful load that there
ground handling. I'm no
The Moose is built
Maule, in my humble
enable a shorter
-------------------------------------------------------
----------

https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML

username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com

---------------------------------------------------------------

--

--------------------------------------------------------------

---

List archives located at:

https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML

username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
--------------------------------------------------------------

---

---------------------------------------------------------------

--

List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
---------------------------------------------------------------

--

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: **Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:54 am**

Walter's got a good point there...much easier to land on amphibs/floats!

Weather...you can have it. -36*C on Sunday somewhere below -40 with the wind
chill...but that didn't stop my son from going night skiing!

Darn near 2 FEET of snow since 2 am this morning....and my daughter got in
an accident with my plow truck last night so what would have been an hour
with it turned into 5 on the tractor blowing it this afternoon. We have
another 6 to 8 inches out there already since I got off the tractor at
5pm....come on spring! (and we're only a couple days into winter!)

Have a GREAT Christmas guys!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 10:08 PM
Subject: RE: Moose approach speed; STOL performance

Hey, Al, you into the sauce already??

My solution to anyone that doesn't like how their airplane lands,
is put floats on. That will make everything better.

Anyway, Merry Xmas to everyone and more happy building and flying
in 2005.

Hope you guys out east aren't freezing too badly. Wanted to go
flying here today, but the fog got me.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Al
Paxhia
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 6:14 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Moose approach speed; STOL performance

More better skilled polits than I are.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Fultz" <dfultz@countryilink.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: Moose approach speed; STOL performance

What happened to all the great numbers that MAM has
been telling me or
giving in the brochures about 600' to land a MOOSE .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Paxhia" <paxhia2@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: Moose approach speed; STOL performance

With floats or
grass runway to get
control and mostly
farther down the
65-70 MPH and add power
to
threshold (over the power
flaps adding the last
float and a springy
bouncing,
those faster landings into
a
authority, I have not
seen
sink is right now. I
use
speed, 70-80 MPH. In the
float at 80 MPH.
100 lbs in the
your description. 70
Is your 1200' number
to float, from your
the flaps? First
crank in the drag, like
strip, with alright
tall trees about
this differently.
sound real comfy.
(Meese???) have opinions? I
1000' at light weights.
you flew, but it
field plane that your
trees in the windshield
characteristics as much,
about this stuff.
<tedwaltman@i1ci.com>
about 70 carrying a
bit
a power-off approach I
left for flair. At 70,
big time--one has to
I used brake with the
have to have a lot of
touchdown, using brakes
nose. Full aft stick
I've done so far. In
really not a valid
different. The Maule
much difference in
ground
useful load that there
ground handling. I'm no
The Moose is built
Maule, in my humble
enable a shorter
-------------------------------------------------------
----------
https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML

---------------------------------------------------------------
--

--------------------------------------------------------------
---
List archives located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
--------------------------------------------------------------
---

---------------------------------------------------------------
--
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
--

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------