The Murphy Builders Site

Here's my 2c worth.

I did like bobp says, build it and fly it. But I was unhappy with the
slop so I designed and built an electric system. Didn't install it
though, listening to bob and Wayne and all, for 3 years.

Then one day at 50 ft final, (looking at some kids playing very near the
numbers too) the flap handle slipped out of the detente. NO FLAPS
from FULL FLAPS INSTANTLY. I instantly recovered the flaps, no
consequences. But then installed the electrics.

Some comments on my design: motor drive is from a GM car seat. 1 sec
gives 5 degrees. Indicator is at my eye on the upper door rail. Limit
switches on full reflex (only 7*) and full down 25*. Current limiter
switches on motor stall (automotive styling). Dirve moves the mixer
directly where the cable used to be. Hard stops on the mixer arm
travel. Manual overide by a knob on the output shaft of the drive.
(takes a while, but I can retract the flaps on drive failure if
necessaary). Switch beside the throttle. (Had to redesign to stop
confusion with the trim. The story being once on climb-out instead of
retracting flaps I trimmed nose down. Wondered why the barn was so tall
this time!!!).

One feature I don't have is a stop at '0' on retract. But I retract in
stages as I climb out. I elected to keep it simple. (as if electrifying
the flaps was simple).

I am happy with my setup. No problems so far, 75 hrs and 4 years on the
electrics.

Phil, R302




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Another 2 cents. Below is the accident report for a young friend of mine. It
is not said here but I believe the flaps saved his life. Al
NTSB Identification: SEA04FA083A
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Sunday, May 16, 2004 in Tenino, WA
Aircraft: Cessna 170B, registration: N3510D
Injuries: 1 Fatal, 1 Minor.

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors.
Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been
completed.

On May 16, 2004, approximately 2040 Pacific daylight time, a Cessna 170B,
N3510D, and a Cessna 210J, N3329S, collided in flight approximately five
nautical miles southeast of Tenino, Washington. The Cessna 170B had departed
Roseburg, Oregon, and was en route to the Wax Orchards Airport, Vashon
Island, Washington. The Cessna 210J had departed Camas, Washington, and was
en route to Paine Field, Everett, Washington. There was one occupant onboard
each aircraft. The pilot of the Cessna 210J, a certificated commercial
pilot, sustained fatal injuries while the certificated private pilot of the
Cessna 170B sustained minor injuries. Visual meteorological conditions
prevailed and both aircraft were operated under 14 CFR Part 91 regulations.

According to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), both pilots received
weather briefings but neither pilot filed a flight plan, and neither
aircraft had requested or were receiving air route traffic control radar
services at the time of the collision.

The pilot of the Cessna 170B reported that he was level at 3,500 feet mean
sea level and had just changed his heading from 350 degrees to 318 degrees.
The pilot stated, "I was looking down at my map as part of this 'normal
scan' that I do when the collision occurred." The pilot stated, "I never saw
the other airplane." The pilot further stated that the aircraft pitched down
and went into an uncommanded left turn, requiring him to stabilize the angle
of bank by holding full right aileron. The pilot reported that he then
realized that the engine had come off the airplane, but he was still able to
maintain the nose down attitude and keep his speed up. The pilot further
reported that he then attempted to move the elevator and rudder enough to
see if they were responsive, which they were. The pilot stated that as the
airplane continued in the left turn through a southerly heading to an
easterly heading he saw what appeared to be parts of "something" falling out
of the sky below him. The pilot said, "...that's when I thought I'd been hit
by another airplane." The pilot reported that as he proceeded turning and
losing altitude rapidly, he picked out a field where he thought he could
land. The pilot said, "I moved the flap handle a little to see how much they
moved, and when I saw they worked I decided to add some flap to reduce my
speed as I approached the field." The pilot stated that he then applied
right rudder to raise the left wing before "clipping" the tops of some trees
and going through one power line wire which bordered the field on the south.
The pilot stated that after the airplane impacted the ground and came to
rest, he immediately exited the airplane and sought help at a nearby house.
The aircraft had come to rest in an inverted position on a magnetic heading
of 120 degrees. There was no post impact fire.

A witness, who is also a private pilot and the owner of the property where
the Cessna 210J came to rest, reported that while in his house he heard an
airplane flying around, prompting him to go outside to see what it was. The
witness stated that he looked up and thought he heard airplanes overhead,
then saw the two accident aircraft coming together. The witness further
stated, " saw them about 5 to 8 seconds before they hit. Both were
straight and level. Neither took evasive action in any way." The witness
stated that one was heading north and the other one was heading northeast
when he saw them hit and parts started coming at him. The witness further
stated that after the parts hit the ground he looked up again and saw "the
silver aircraft" gliding north without an engine before it went out of sight
over some trees.

The Cessna 170B's engine was located approximately one-half mile southwest
of where the aircraft came to rest. The airplane's right cabin door and left
lower cowling were found approximately three-quarters of a mile south of
this location.

The Cessna 210J's engine, propeller, and main cabin area were located
approximately one-quarter of a mile south of where the Cessna 170B came to
rest. The wing was located approximately 400 feet south of the main cabin
area, and the airplane's tail section was discovered in a thick brush area
one-half mile south of the main cabin.

At 2031, a special aviation surface weather observation taken at the Olympia
Airport, Olympia, Washington, located 11 nautical miles northwest of the
collision reported wind 220 degrees at 5 knots, visibility 10 statute miles,
broken clouds at 2,600 feet, overcast clouds at 4,900 feet, temperature 12
degrees C, dew point 7 degrees C, and an altimeter of 30.03 inches of
Mercury.



















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Gives another good reason to have a max forward empty C of G...doesn't it
and those flaps surely helped keep the nose down when he slowed to land.

Glade at least one lived to tell the tale.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Paxhia" <paxhia2@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: rebel flapreons-electric?

Another 2 cents. Below is the accident report for a young friend of mine.

It

is not said here but I believe the flaps saved his life. Al
NTSB Identification: SEA04FA083A
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Sunday, May 16, 2004 in Tenino, WA
Aircraft: Cessna 170B, registration: N3510D
Injuries: 1 Fatal, 1 Minor.

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain

errors.

Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been
completed.

On May 16, 2004, approximately 2040 Pacific daylight time, a Cessna 170B,
N3510D, and a Cessna 210J, N3329S, collided in flight approximately five
nautical miles southeast of Tenino, Washington. The Cessna 170B had

departed

Roseburg, Oregon, and was en route to the Wax Orchards Airport, Vashon
Island, Washington. The Cessna 210J had departed Camas, Washington, and

was

en route to Paine Field, Everett, Washington. There was one occupant

onboard

each aircraft. The pilot of the Cessna 210J, a certificated commercial
pilot, sustained fatal injuries while the certificated private pilot of

the

Cessna 170B sustained minor injuries. Visual meteorological conditions
prevailed and both aircraft were operated under 14 CFR Part 91

regulations.

According to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), both pilots

received

weather briefings but neither pilot filed a flight plan, and neither
aircraft had requested or were receiving air route traffic control radar
services at the time of the collision.

The pilot of the Cessna 170B reported that he was level at 3,500 feet mean
sea level and had just changed his heading from 350 degrees to 318

degrees.

The pilot stated, "I was looking down at my map as part of this 'normal
scan' that I do when the collision occurred." The pilot stated, "I never

saw

the other airplane." The pilot further stated that the aircraft pitched

down

and went into an uncommanded left turn, requiring him to stabilize the

angle

of bank by holding full right aileron. The pilot reported that he then
realized that the engine had come off the airplane, but he was still able

to

maintain the nose down attitude and keep his speed up. The pilot further
reported that he then attempted to move the elevator and rudder enough to
see if they were responsive, which they were. The pilot stated that as the
airplane continued in the left turn through a southerly heading to an
easterly heading he saw what appeared to be parts of "something" falling

out

of the sky below him. The pilot said, "...that's when I thought I'd been

hit

by another airplane." The pilot reported that as he proceeded turning and
losing altitude rapidly, he picked out a field where he thought he could
land. The pilot said, "I moved the flap handle a little to see how much

they

moved, and when I saw they worked I decided to add some flap to reduce my
speed as I approached the field." The pilot stated that he then applied
right rudder to raise the left wing before "clipping" the tops of some

trees

and going through one power line wire which bordered the field on the

south.

The pilot stated that after the airplane impacted the ground and came to
rest, he immediately exited the airplane and sought help at a nearby

house.

The aircraft had come to rest in an inverted position on a magnetic

heading

of 120 degrees. There was no post impact fire.

A witness, who is also a private pilot and the owner of the property where
the Cessna 210J came to rest, reported that while in his house he heard an
airplane flying around, prompting him to go outside to see what it was.

The

witness stated that he looked up and thought he heard airplanes overhead,
then saw the two accident aircraft coming together. The witness further
stated, " saw them about 5 to 8 seconds before they hit. Both were
straight and level. Neither took evasive action in any way." The witness
stated that one was heading north and the other one was heading northeast
when he saw them hit and parts started coming at him. The witness further
stated that after the parts hit the ground he looked up again and saw "the
silver aircraft" gliding north without an engine before it went out of

sight

over some trees.

The Cessna 170B's engine was located approximately one-half mile southwest
of where the aircraft came to rest. The airplane's right cabin door and

left

lower cowling were found approximately three-quarters of a mile south of
this location.

The Cessna 210J's engine, propeller, and main cabin area were located
approximately one-quarter of a mile south of where the Cessna 170B came to
rest. The wing was located approximately 400 feet south of the main cabin
area, and the airplane's tail section was discovered in a thick brush area
one-half mile south of the main cabin.

At 2031, a special aviation surface weather observation taken at the

Olympia

Airport, Olympia, Washington, located 11 nautical miles northwest of the
collision reported wind 220 degrees at 5 knots, visibility 10 statute

miles,

broken clouds at 2,600 feet, overcast clouds at 4,900 feet, temperature 12
degrees C, dew point 7 degrees C, and an altimeter of 30.03 inches of
Mercury.



















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hi phil,

Hjalmar Bardslokken in Quebec city Rebel 308. would you by chance have any
pic's of your flap installation. I am still hooked up with a cable ,have
heard of electric but have no idea of what it looks like with limiter
switches. sure would appreciate some visual

hjalmar
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Stubley" <phil.stubley@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 6:16 PM
Subject: rebel flapreons-electric?

Here's my 2c worth.

I did like bobp says, build it and fly it. But I was unhappy with the
slop so I designed and built an electric system. Didn't install it
though, listening to bob and Wayne and all, for 3 years.

Then one day at 50 ft final, (looking at some kids playing very near the
numbers too) the flap handle slipped out of the detente. NO FLAPS
from FULL FLAPS INSTANTLY. I instantly recovered the flaps, no
consequences. But then installed the electrics.

Some comments on my design: motor drive is from a GM car seat. 1 sec
gives 5 degrees. Indicator is at my eye on the upper door rail. Limit
switches on full reflex (only 7*) and full down 25*. Current limiter
switches on motor stall (automotive styling). Dirve moves the mixer
directly where the cable used to be. Hard stops on the mixer arm
travel. Manual overide by a knob on the output shaft of the drive.
(takes a while, but I can retract the flaps on drive failure if
necessaary). Switch beside the throttle. (Had to redesign to stop
confusion with the trim. The story being once on climb-out instead of
retracting flaps I trimmed nose down. Wondered why the barn was so tall
this time!!!).

One feature I don't have is a stop at '0' on retract. But I retract in
stages as I climb out. I elected to keep it simple. (as if electrifying
the flaps was simple).

I am happy with my setup. No problems so far, 75 hrs and 4 years on the
electrics.

Phil, R302




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Hi Hjalmar,

I haven't found my pics of the electrics yet. I'm not digital so bear with
me. I will still try to get something to you.

Phil
----- sure would appreciate some visual

hjalmar

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thank you sounds great. It's appreciated

Hjalmar
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Stubley" <phil.stubley@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 12:48 AM
Subject: Re: rebel flapreons-electric?

Hi Hjalmar,

I haven't found my pics of the electrics yet. I'm not digital so bear

with

me. I will still try to get something to you.

Phil
----- sure would appreciate some visual

hjalmar

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I have electric flaps on my Elite. Use a Cadillac power seat motor and
track. It turns out the track is made from aluminum, which was a nice
bonus. I use limit switches and very rigid mechanical sops on the track
itself to ensure the breaker pops before the airframe gets bent. First
flight will be next spring, but it seems to work well. No more flex cable.

Hvor er du fra i Norge, og hvor lange har du vaert i Kanada?

Al Hepburn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Flying Norwegian" <flyingnorwegian@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: rebel flapreons-electric?

thank you sounds great. It's appreciated

Hjalmar
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Stubley" <phil.stubley@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 12:48 AM
Subject: Re: rebel flapreons-electric?

Hi Hjalmar,

I haven't found my pics of the electrics yet. I'm not digital so bear

with

me. I will still try to get something to you.

Phil
----- sure would appreciate some visual

hjalmar

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hi alan

would you by chance have a digital camera to take a pic of your
instrallation. to give me an idea how to install

Hjalmar
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: rebel flapreons-electric?

I have electric flaps on my Elite. Use a Cadillac power seat motor and
track. It turns out the track is made from aluminum, which was a nice
bonus. I use limit switches and very rigid mechanical sops on the track
itself to ensure the breaker pops before the airframe gets bent. First
flight will be next spring, but it seems to work well. No more flex

cable.

Hvor er du fra i Norge, og hvor lange har du vaert i Kanada?

Al Hepburn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Flying Norwegian" <flyingnorwegian@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: rebel flapreons-electric?

thank you sounds great. It's appreciated

Hjalmar
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Stubley" <phil.stubley@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 12:48 AM
Subject: Re: rebel flapreons-electric?

Hi Hjalmar,

I haven't found my pics of the electrics yet. I'm not digital so bear

with

me. I will still try to get something to you.

Phil
----- sure would appreciate some visual


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