Skis on a Rebel / WD prop pitch

Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:46 am

Flaps sound normal for the Rebel (unless of course you have a full
mechanical linkage like I do!).

As for your Warp Drive...I found I couldn't even move on skis when I first
mounted mine to the 100HP and kept pitching finer and finer until I got the
static RPM up to 2350 (on a 2600 RPM max engine) With 2350 static I could
still only reach 2550 in cruise full throttle..so eventually took out
another 1/2* of pitch. At 2170 and 2240 RPM I couldn't even get the airplane
to move!

One degree on the 150 HP seems to make about 100 RPM difference. If you are
only getting 2200 I would be temped to take 2 degrees out to start with and
see what happens. What can you get balls to the wall in cruise the way it is
now?

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter, Juliet, & Wanaao Piascik" <northofsixty@mac.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: Skis on a Rebel

Thanks for the replies guys.

There was ice frozen on the bottom of the skis before I left the
airport. I tried to remove this ice with a scraper.
The lake I was landing on had some spots of overflow, but not much.

The wheels are about 1" below the skis.

I have a warp drive prop set at 130. Wayne do you think I should set

100? I am only getting 2200RPM on takeoff.

Another thing I am wonder about are the flaps. With selection of flaps

in the air it doesn't seem to be much down. I am use to a cessna, when

you select 100 flap the flaps are 100. With full flaps on the Rebel
it
looks like I get 50 in the air. I have the MAM handle to a cable.

Peter

On 17-Nov-04, at 11:38 AM, Drew Dalgleish wrote:

At 10:07 AM 11/17/2004 -0700, you wrote:
Hi guys:

Just looking for some ideas about ski flying on a Rebel (0-320).

I have my Rebel on penetration skis. I was out yesterday doing some
touch and goes on a lake just out side of Yellowknife, temp -80C. I
almost had the guts to stop but decided not to and aborted the
stopping, it took me about a mile to get her airborne. There is just

to

much drag to get a load, 300 Ibs & half fuel, off a lake on
penetration

skis.

Some one recommend I deflate the tire put a piece of metal under the
tire and reinflate the tire to hold the metal in place thus turning

the

penetration skis into straight skis.

Who out there operate on skis.

Peter
Hi Peter Was it slushy under the snow? Water overflow on the ice can

make
it impossible to get off I'm told. No personal experience that way but

I
flew my rebel with penetration skis last winter and never had any
problem
getting off the ground. What kind of bottoms do you have? Could there

have
been an ice buildup?
Drew

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Neil Hardie · Post by **Neil Hardie** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:46 am

Thanks Wayne , I like the idea of real flaps and " full mechanical
linkage" sound real sexy to me. How does a guy get this on his plane if
he doesn't hav e it now??

Neil Hardie
Phone:416-524-7696
Fax:416-996-2567
Email: nhardie@sympatico.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 6:03 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Skis on a Rebel / WD prop pitch

Flaps sound normal for the Rebel (unless of course you have a full
mechanical linkage like I do!).

As for your Warp Drive...I found I couldn't even move on skis when I
first mounted mine to the 100HP and kept pitching finer and finer until
I got the static RPM up to 2350 (on a 2600 RPM max engine) With 2350
static I could still only reach 2550 in cruise full throttle..so
eventually took out another 1/2* of pitch. At 2170 and 2240 RPM I
couldn't even get the airplane to move!

One degree on the 150 HP seems to make about 100 RPM difference. If you
are only getting 2200 I would be temped to take 2 degrees out to start
with and see what happens. What can you get balls to the wall in cruise
the way it is now?

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter, Juliet, & Wanaao Piascik" <northofsixty@mac.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: Skis on a Rebel

Thanks for the replies guys.

There was ice frozen on the bottom of the skis before I left the
airport. I tried to remove this ice with a scraper. The lake I was
landing on had some spots of overflow, but not much.

The wheels are about 1" below the skis.

I have a warp drive prop set at 130. Wayne do you think I should set

100? I am only getting 2200RPM on takeoff.

Another thing I am wonder about are the flaps. With selection of flaps

in the air it doesn't seem to be much down. I am use to a cessna, when

you select 100 flap the flaps are 100. With full flaps on the Rebel it
looks like I get 50 in the air. I have the MAM handle to a cable.

Peter

On 17-Nov-04, at 11:38 AM, Drew Dalgleish wrote:

At 10:07 AM 11/17/2004 -0700, you wrote:
Hi guys:

Just looking for some ideas about ski flying on a Rebel (0-320).

I have my Rebel on penetration skis. I was out yesterday doing some

touch and goes on a lake just out side of Yellowknife, temp -80C. I

almost had the guts to stop but decided not to and aborted the
stopping, it took me about a mile to get her airborne. There is
just

to

much drag to get a load, 300 Ibs & half fuel, off a lake on
penetration

skis.

Some one recommend I deflate the tire put a piece of metal under
the tire and reinflate the tire to hold the metal in place thus
turning

the

penetration skis into straight skis.

Who out there operate on skis.

Peter
Hi Peter Was it slushy under the snow? Water overflow on the ice
can

make
it impossible to get off I'm told. No personal experience that way
but

I
flew my rebel with penetration skis last winter and never had any
problem getting off the ground. What kind of bottoms do you have?
Could there

have
been an ice buildup?
Drew

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Neil Hardie · Post by **Neil Hardie** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:46 am

Thanks Wayne , I like the idea of real flaps and " full mechanical
linkage" sound real sexy to me. How does a guy get this on his plane if
he doesn't hav e it now??

Neil Hardie
Phone:416-524-7696
Fax:416-996-2567
Email: nhardie@sympatico.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 6:03 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Skis on a Rebel / WD prop pitch

Flaps sound normal for the Rebel (unless of course you have a full
mechanical linkage like I do!).

As for your Warp Drive...I found I couldn't even move on skis when I
first mounted mine to the 100HP and kept pitching finer and finer until
I got the static RPM up to 2350 (on a 2600 RPM max engine) With 2350
static I could still only reach 2550 in cruise full throttle..so
eventually took out another 1/2* of pitch. At 2170 and 2240 RPM I
couldn't even get the airplane to move!

One degree on the 150 HP seems to make about 100 RPM difference. If you
are only getting 2200 I would be temped to take 2 degrees out to start
with and see what happens. What can you get balls to the wall in cruise
the way it is now?

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter, Juliet, & Wanaao Piascik" <northofsixty@mac.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: Skis on a Rebel

Thanks for the replies guys.

There was ice frozen on the bottom of the skis before I left the
airport. I tried to remove this ice with a scraper. The lake I was
landing on had some spots of overflow, but not much.

The wheels are about 1" below the skis.

I have a warp drive prop set at 130. Wayne do you think I should set

100? I am only getting 2200RPM on takeoff.

Another thing I am wonder about are the flaps. With selection of flaps

in the air it doesn't seem to be much down. I am use to a cessna, when

you select 100 flap the flaps are 100. With full flaps on the Rebel it
looks like I get 50 in the air. I have the MAM handle to a cable.

Peter

On 17-Nov-04, at 11:38 AM, Drew Dalgleish wrote:

At 10:07 AM 11/17/2004 -0700, you wrote:
Hi guys:

Just looking for some ideas about ski flying on a Rebel (0-320).

I have my Rebel on penetration skis. I was out yesterday doing some

touch and goes on a lake just out side of Yellowknife, temp -80C. I

almost had the guts to stop but decided not to and aborted the
stopping, it took me about a mile to get her airborne. There is
just

to

much drag to get a load, 300 Ibs & half fuel, off a lake on
penetration

skis.

Some one recommend I deflate the tire put a piece of metal under
the tire and reinflate the tire to hold the metal in place thus
turning

the

penetration skis into straight skis.

Who out there operate on skis.

Peter
Hi Peter Was it slushy under the snow? Water overflow on the ice
can

make
it impossible to get off I'm told. No personal experience that way
but

I
flew my rebel with penetration skis last winter and never had any
problem getting off the ground. What kind of bottoms do you have?
Could there

have
been an ice buildup?
Drew

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:46 am

Like everything else in life Neil !! Time and money!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Hardie" <nhardie@lincsat.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 6:12 PM
Subject: RE: Skis on a Rebel / WD prop pitch

Thanks Wayne , I like the idea of real flaps and " full mechanical
linkage" sound real sexy to me. How does a guy get this on his plane if
he doesn't hav e it now??

Neil Hardie
Phone:416-524-7696
Fax:416-996-2567
Email: nhardie@sympatico.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 6:03 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Skis on a Rebel / WD prop pitch

Flaps sound normal for the Rebel (unless of course you have a full
mechanical linkage like I do!).

As for your Warp Drive...I found I couldn't even move on skis when I
first mounted mine to the 100HP and kept pitching finer and finer until
I got the static RPM up to 2350 (on a 2600 RPM max engine) With 2350
static I could still only reach 2550 in cruise full throttle..so
eventually took out another 1/2* of pitch. At 2170 and 2240 RPM I
couldn't even get the airplane to move!

One degree on the 150 HP seems to make about 100 RPM difference. If you
are only getting 2200 I would be temped to take 2 degrees out to start
with and see what happens. What can you get balls to the wall in cruise
the way it is now?

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter, Juliet, & Wanaao Piascik" <northofsixty@mac.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: Skis on a Rebel

Thanks for the replies guys.

There was ice frozen on the bottom of the skis before I left the
airport. I tried to remove this ice with a scraper. The lake I was
landing on had some spots of overflow, but not much.

The wheels are about 1" below the skis.

I have a warp drive prop set at 130. Wayne do you think I should set

100? I am only getting 2200RPM on takeoff.

Another thing I am wonder about are the flaps. With selection of flaps

in the air it doesn't seem to be much down. I am use to a cessna, when

you select 100 flap the flaps are 100. With full flaps on the Rebel it
looks like I get 50 in the air. I have the MAM handle to a cable.

Peter

On 17-Nov-04, at 11:38 AM, Drew Dalgleish wrote:

At 10:07 AM 11/17/2004 -0700, you wrote:

Hi Peter Was it slushy under the snow? Water overflow on the ice
can

make
it impossible to get off I'm told. No personal experience that way
but

I
flew my rebel with penetration skis last winter and never had any
problem getting off the ground. What kind of bottoms do you have?
Could there

have
been an ice buildup?
Drew

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Peter, Juliet, & Wanaao P · Post by **Peter, Juliet, & Wanaao P** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:46 am

Wayne:

I get about 2350 to 2400 RPM, balls to the wall in cruise.

I will take out couple of degrees.

Peter

On 18-Nov-04, at 4:02 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Flaps sound normal for the Rebel (unless of course you have a full
mechanical linkage like I do!).

As for your Warp Drive...I found I couldn't even move on skis when I
first
mounted mine to the 100HP and kept pitching finer and finer until I
got the
static RPM up to 2350 (on a 2600 RPM max engine) With 2350 static I
could
still only reach 2550 in cruise full throttle..so eventually took out
another 1/2* of pitch. At 2170 and 2240 RPM I couldn't even get the
airplane
to move!

One degree on the 150 HP seems to make about 100 RPM difference. If
you are
only getting 2200 I would be temped to take 2 degrees out to start
with and
see what happens. What can you get balls to the wall in cruise the way
it is
now?

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter, Juliet, & Wanaao Piascik" <northofsixty@mac.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: Skis on a Rebel

Thanks for the replies guys.

There was ice frozen on the bottom of the skis before I left the
airport. I tried to remove this ice with a scraper.
The lake I was landing on had some spots of overflow, but not much.

The wheels are about 1" below the skis.

I have a warp drive prop set at 130. Wayne do you think I should set

100? I am only getting 2200RPM on takeoff.

Another thing I am wonder about are the flaps. With selection of flaps

in the air it doesn't seem to be much down. I am use to a cessna, when

you select 100 flap the flaps are 100. With full flaps on the Rebel
it
looks like I get 50 in the air. I have the MAM handle to a cable.

Peter

On 17-Nov-04, at 11:38 AM, Drew Dalgleish wrote:

At 10:07 AM 11/17/2004 -0700, you wrote:

Hi Peter Was it slushy under the snow? Water overflow on the ice can

make
it impossible to get off I'm told. No personal experience that way
but

I
flew my rebel with penetration skis last winter and never had any
problem
getting off the ground. What kind of bottoms do you have? Could there

have
been an ice buildup?
Drew

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:46 am

Think you'll see a huge improvement if you do. Right now you're like trying
to drive a truck up hill in high gear!

Also before you go playing with the prop...has your tach been checked with
an optical tach (is a requirement during each annual unless you have a
digital tach) to insure it's accurate within 4%

Put some UHMW on the bottom of those skis while you're at it!

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter, Juliet, & Wanaao Piascik" <northofsixty@mac.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: Skis on a Rebel / WD prop pitch

Wayne:

I get about 2350 to 2400 RPM, balls to the wall in cruise.

I will take out couple of degrees.

Peter

On 18-Nov-04, at 4:02 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Flaps sound normal for the Rebel (unless of course you have a full
mechanical linkage like I do!).

As for your Warp Drive...I found I couldn't even move on skis when I
first
mounted mine to the 100HP and kept pitching finer and finer until I
got the
static RPM up to 2350 (on a 2600 RPM max engine) With 2350 static I
could
still only reach 2550 in cruise full throttle..so eventually took out
another 1/2* of pitch. At 2170 and 2240 RPM I couldn't even get the
airplane
to move!

One degree on the 150 HP seems to make about 100 RPM difference. If
you are
only getting 2200 I would be temped to take 2 degrees out to start
with and
see what happens. What can you get balls to the wall in cruise the way
it is
now?

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter, Juliet, & Wanaao Piascik" <northofsixty@mac.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: Skis on a Rebel

Thanks for the replies guys.

There was ice frozen on the bottom of the skis before I left the
airport. I tried to remove this ice with a scraper.
The lake I was landing on had some spots of overflow, but not much.

The wheels are about 1" below the skis.

I have a warp drive prop set at 130. Wayne do you think I should set

100? I am only getting 2200RPM on takeoff.

Another thing I am wonder about are the flaps. With selection of flaps

in the air it doesn't seem to be much down. I am use to a cessna, when

you select 100 flap the flaps are 100. With full flaps on the Rebel
it
looks like I get 50 in the air. I have the MAM handle to a cable.

Peter

On 17-Nov-04, at 11:38 AM, Drew Dalgleish wrote:

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Peter, Juliet, & Wanaao P · Post by **Peter, Juliet, & Wanaao P** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:46 am

What is UHMW?

I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks again,

Peter

On 19-Nov-04, at 6:11 AM, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Think you'll see a huge improvement if you do. Right now you're like
trying
to drive a truck up hill in high gear!

Also before you go playing with the prop...has your tach been checked
with
an optical tach (is a requirement during each annual unless you have a
digital tach) to insure it's accurate within 4%

Put some UHMW on the bottom of those skis while you're at it!

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter, Juliet, & Wanaao Piascik" <northofsixty@mac.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: Skis on a Rebel / WD prop pitch

Wayne:

I get about 2350 to 2400 RPM, balls to the wall in cruise.

I will take out couple of degrees.

Peter

On 18-Nov-04, at 4:02 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Flaps sound normal for the Rebel (unless of course you have a full
mechanical linkage like I do!).

As for your Warp Drive...I found I couldn't even move on skis when I
first
mounted mine to the 100HP and kept pitching finer and finer until I
got the
static RPM up to 2350 (on a 2600 RPM max engine) With 2350 static I
could
still only reach 2550 in cruise full throttle..so eventually took out
another 1/2* of pitch. At 2170 and 2240 RPM I couldn't even get the
airplane
to move!

One degree on the 150 HP seems to make about 100 RPM difference. If
you are
only getting 2200 I would be temped to take 2 degrees out to start
with and
see what happens. What can you get balls to the wall in cruise the
way
it is
now?

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter, Juliet, & Wanaao Piascik" <northofsixty@mac.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: Skis on a Rebel

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:46 am

Most people state they have "Teflon" on the bottom of their skis.
Considering teflon in 1/8" sheet is about $35/sqft I really doubt it. What
everyone is using is UHMW. Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene. You
should be able to get a 4 x 8 sheet of white for about $100cdn. Try to get
someone that can bring you in a 4' x 12' sheet though and that way no waste
and two sets of bottoms can come out of a single sheet (as I presume your
skis are just shy of 6' long or so).

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter, Juliet, & Wanaao Piascik" <northofsixty@mac.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: Skis on a Rebel / WD prop pitch

What is UHMW?

I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks again,

Peter

On 19-Nov-04, at 6:11 AM, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Think you'll see a huge improvement if you do. Right now you're like
trying
to drive a truck up hill in high gear!

Also before you go playing with the prop...has your tach been checked
with
an optical tach (is a requirement during each annual unless you have a
digital tach) to insure it's accurate within 4%

Put some UHMW on the bottom of those skis while you're at it!

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter, Juliet, & Wanaao Piascik" <northofsixty@mac.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: Skis on a Rebel / WD prop pitch

Wayne:

I get about 2350 to 2400 RPM, balls to the wall in cruise.

I will take out couple of degrees.

Peter

On 18-Nov-04, at 4:02 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

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Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:46 am

Which eventually leads to the question - what glue will stick to the
darn stuff ??
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Most people state they have "Teflon" on the bottom of their skis.
Considering teflon in 1/8" sheet is about $35/sqft I really doubt it. What
everyone is using is UHMW. Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene. You
should be able to get a 4 x 8 sheet of white for about $100cdn. Try to get
someone that can bring you in a 4' x 12' sheet though and that way no waste
and two sets of bottoms can come out of a single sheet (as I presume your
skis are just shy of 6' long or so).

Wayne

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:46 am

1/8" alum rivet glue!!! Any other "glue" would be a real nightmare come time
to replace the plastic.

If your ski edges are rolled up even slightly along the edges the large head
fabric rivets are sufficient. If they're not rolled up I have used the
RV4412's successfully as well as solid "soft" C/S rivets. I'd start out with
about 4" spacing on the rivets and see if it sits tight and then add the odd
one in between if needed.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: Skis on a Rebel / WD prop pitch

Which eventually leads to the question - what glue will stick to the
darn stuff ??
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Most people state they have "Teflon" on the bottom of their skis.
Considering teflon in 1/8" sheet is about $35/sqft I really doubt it.

What

everyone is using is UHMW. Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene. You
should be able to get a 4 x 8 sheet of white for about $100cdn. Try to

get

someone that can bring you in a 4' x 12' sheet though and that way no

waste

and two sets of bottoms can come out of a single sheet (as I presume your
skis are just shy of 6' long or so).

Wayne

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Joel Jacobs · Post by **Joel Jacobs** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:46 am

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: Skis on a Rebel / WD prop pitch

Flaps sound normal for the Rebel (unless of course you have a full
mechanical linkage like I do!).

Hi Wayne,
On your mechanical linkage setup, did you still use the flap angle specified
in the manual or did you reduce it a bit? (since the cable setup reduces
the angle with air loads)
I'm playing around with the idea of tossing the cable in favor of a
mechanical linkage - maybe electric. I can see where the cable would have
slop in it - you're pushing on the cable to lower the flaps. That would be
like trying to push a rope through a tube and expecting to do some work on
the other end wouldn't it?

Joel

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