The Murphy Builders Site

Hi All,

Randy and I went a round and a round on how to install the small access hole
covers. (and vertical fin fairing) Nut plates are the norm. The problem is
that with the skins so thin countersinking is marginal at best. MAM supplied
sheet metal screws ... ^$#&^%(*&.

We finally settled on Flush Keyed Rivnuts for #6 ss screws.
You drill a 3/16 hole, dimple the hole or countersink in thicker stock, file
a small notch in the side of the hole to catch the key of the rivnut, insert
the rivnut and squeeze. Once you've done a few you get the feel for how hard
to squeeze so you set the rivnut well but not too hard as to damage the
threads. If you mess up they are easy to drill out and replace.

Rivnuts are not as robust as nutplates but with care for a good installation
and normal care in installing screws they do quite well. I installed herds
of the non countersunk ones on my CH701 and after 10 condition inspections
never had a single problem.

I have posted some pictures showing results.

Hope this will help someone,
Don B.




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At 12:31 AM 11/15/2004 -0500, you wrote:

Hi All,

Randy and I went a round and a round on how to install the small access hole
covers. (and vertical fin fairing) Nut plates are the norm. The problem is
that with the skins so thin countersinking is marginal at best. MAM supplied
sheet metal screws ... ^$#&^%(*&.

We finally settled on Flush Keyed Rivnuts for #6 ss screws.
You drill a 3/16 hole, dimple the hole or countersink in thicker stock, file
a small notch in the side of the hole to catch the key of the rivnut, insert
the rivnut and squeeze. Once you've done a few you get the feel for how hard
to squeeze so you set the rivnut well but not too hard as to damage the
threads. If you mess up they are easy to drill out and replace.

Rivnuts are not as robust as nutplates but with care for a good installation
and normal care in installing screws they do quite well. I installed herds
of the non countersunk ones on my CH701 and after 10 condition inspections
never had a single problem.

I have posted some pictures showing results.

Hope this will help someone,
Don B.

I used a bunch of unkeyed ones doing my float instalation since it was
impossible to get in behind where the fasteners had to go and install
nutplates. I put a dab of sikaflex on each one and I've removed the floats
twice without having any of them spin. I bought my rivnuts locally at a
fastener store and made my own tool for installing them. I used a long bolt
the right thread and turned down the shank with a file and my drill press
until it would fit my hand rivet puller.
Drew





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Don,
Thanks a lot --- yes, this helps me, for one. Having not built a metal
airplane I barely know what a nutplate vs rivnut is, nor whatever other
options there are for these kinds of things. Glad to know too that others go
round and round for seemingly small things such as this!

Drew, if you ever get a chance, I'd be curious to see a picture of your home-
made rivnut install tool. And, Wayne, if your listening on this one, I've
also thought it would be helpful to see a picture of your home-made edge
roller you once described.
...for the verbally challenged :)
-Ben /496R

On 11/14/2004 8:31 PM, DBOARDM3@TWCNY.RR.COM wrote to REBEL-BUILDERS:

Hi All,

Randy and I went a round and a round on how to install the small access hole
covers. (and vertical fin fairing) Nut plates are the norm. The problem is
that with the skins so thin countersinking is marginal at best. MAM supplied
sheet metal screws ... ^$#&^%(*&.

We finally settled on Flush Keyed Rivnuts for #6 ss screws.
You drill a 3/16 hole, dimple the hole or countersink in thicker stock, file
a small notch in the side of the hole to catch the key of the rivnut, insert
the rivnut and squeeze. Once you've done a few you get the feel for how hard
to squeeze so you set the rivnut well but not too hard as to damage the
threads. If you mess up they are easy to drill out and replace.

Rivnuts are not as robust as nutplates but with care for a good installation
and normal care in installing screws they do quite well. I installed herds
of the non countersunk ones on my CH701 and after 10 condition inspections
never had a single problem.

I have posted some pictures showing results.

Hope this will help someone,
Don B.

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Ben...will see if I can fit some picture taking into the schedule! Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <bransom@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 2:42 PM
Subject: RE: Access Hole Cover Installation / Pics

Don,
Thanks a lot --- yes, this helps me, for one. Having not built a metal
airplane I barely know what a nutplate vs rivnut is, nor whatever other
options there are for these kinds of things. Glad to know too that others

go

round and round for seemingly small things such as this!

Drew, if you ever get a chance, I'd be curious to see a picture of your

home-

made rivnut install tool. And, Wayne, if your listening on this one, I've
also thought it would be helpful to see a picture of your home-made edge
roller you once described.
...for the verbally challenged :)
-Ben /496R

On 11/14/2004 8:31 PM, DBOARDM3@TWCNY.RR.COM wrote to REBEL-BUILDERS:

Hi All,

Randy and I went a round and a round on how to install the small access

hole

covers. (and vertical fin fairing) Nut plates are the norm. The problem

is

that with the skins so thin countersinking is marginal at best. MAM

supplied

sheet metal screws ... ^$#&^%(*&.

We finally settled on Flush Keyed Rivnuts for #6 ss screws.
You drill a 3/16 hole, dimple the hole or countersink in thicker stock,

file

a small notch in the side of the hole to catch the key of the rivnut,

insert

the rivnut and squeeze. Once you've done a few you get the feel for how

hard

to squeeze so you set the rivnut well but not too hard as to damage the
threads. If you mess up they are easy to drill out and replace.

Rivnuts are not as robust as nutplates but with care for a good

installation

and normal care in installing screws they do quite well. I installed

herds

of the non countersunk ones on my CH701 and after 10 condition

inspections

never had a single problem.

I have posted some pictures showing results.

Hope this will help someone,
Don B.

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I'll try to get that for you soon Ben but I'm kinda digital camera challenged

At 10:42 AM 11/15/2004 -0900, you wrote:

Don,
Thanks a lot --- yes, this helps me, for one. Having not built a metal
airplane I barely know what a nutplate vs rivnut is, nor whatever other
options there are for these kinds of things. Glad to know too that others

go

round and round for seemingly small things such as this!

Drew, if you ever get a chance, I'd be curious to see a picture of your home-
made rivnut install tool. And, Wayne, if your listening on this one, I've
also thought it would be helpful to see a picture of your home-made edge
roller you once described.
...for the verbally challenged :)
-Ben /496R

On 11/14/2004 8:31 PM, DBOARDM3@TWCNY.RR.COM wrote to REBEL-BUILDERS:

Hi All,

Randy and I went a round and a round on how to install the small access

hole

covers. (and vertical fin fairing) Nut plates are the norm. The problem is
that with the skins so thin countersinking is marginal at best. MAM

supplied

sheet metal screws ... ^$#&^%(*&.

We finally settled on Flush Keyed Rivnuts for #6 ss screws.
You drill a 3/16 hole, dimple the hole or countersink in thicker stock,

file

a small notch in the side of the hole to catch the key of the rivnut,

insert

the rivnut and squeeze. Once you've done a few you get the feel for how

hard

to squeeze so you set the rivnut well but not too hard as to damage the
threads. If you mess up they are easy to drill out and replace.

Rivnuts are not as robust as nutplates but with care for a good

installation

and normal care in installing screws they do quite well. I installed herds
of the non countersunk ones on my CH701 and after 10 condition inspections
never had a single problem.

I have posted some pictures showing results.

Hope this will help someone,
Don B.

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Drew





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Sent two pics of the edge roller Ben...but not sure if you'll get them since
this is the only address I have for you thru dcsol.com Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <bransom@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 2:42 PM
Subject: RE: Access Hole Cover Installation / Pics

Don,
Thanks a lot --- yes, this helps me, for one. Having not built a metal
airplane I barely know what a nutplate vs rivnut is, nor whatever other
options there are for these kinds of things. Glad to know too that others

go

round and round for seemingly small things such as this!

Drew, if you ever get a chance, I'd be curious to see a picture of your

home-

made rivnut install tool. And, Wayne, if your listening on this one, I've
also thought it would be helpful to see a picture of your home-made edge
roller you once described.
...for the verbally challenged :)
-Ben /496R

On 11/14/2004 8:31 PM, DBOARDM3@TWCNY.RR.COM wrote to REBEL-BUILDERS:

Hi All,

Randy and I went a round and a round on how to install the small access

hole

covers. (and vertical fin fairing) Nut plates are the norm. The problem

is

that with the skins so thin countersinking is marginal at best. MAM

supplied

sheet metal screws ... ^$#&^%(*&.

We finally settled on Flush Keyed Rivnuts for #6 ss screws.
You drill a 3/16 hole, dimple the hole or countersink in thicker stock,

file

a small notch in the side of the hole to catch the key of the rivnut,

insert

the rivnut and squeeze. Once you've done a few you get the feel for how

hard

to squeeze so you set the rivnut well but not too hard as to damage the
threads. If you mess up they are easy to drill out and replace.

Rivnuts are not as robust as nutplates but with care for a good

installation

and normal care in installing screws they do quite well. I installed

herds

of the non countersunk ones on my CH701 and after 10 condition

inspections

never had a single problem.

I have posted some pictures showing results.

Hope this will help someone,
Don B.

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Another option might be dimpled nutplates for thin aluminum. You dimple
the 3/32 rivet holes instead of countersinking. I usually stock up at
Oshkosh and find them very useful even on 0.020. I guess I have an
aversion to keyed rivnuts in case a crack starts at the keyway. I've
tried the non-keyed rivnuts from Spruce though and will admit that they
work quite well compared to the junk ones that are sold locally by
Princess Auto.
Ken

Don Boardman wrote:

Hi All,

Randy and I went a round and a round on how to install the small access hole
covers. (and vertical fin fairing) Nut plates are the norm. The problem is
that with the skins so thin countersinking is marginal at best. MAM supplied
sheet metal screws ... ^$#&^%(*&.

We finally settled on Flush Keyed Rivnuts for #6 ss screws.
You drill a 3/16 hole, dimple the hole or countersink in thicker stock, file
a small notch in the side of the hole to catch the key of the rivnut, insert
the rivnut and squeeze. Once you've done a few you get the feel for how hard
to squeeze so you set the rivnut well but not too hard as to damage the
threads. If you mess up they are easy to drill out and replace.

Rivnuts are not as robust as nutplates but with care for a good installation
and normal care in installing screws they do quite well. I installed herds
of the non countersunk ones on my CH701 and after 10 condition inspections
never had a single problem.

I have posted some pictures showing results.

Hope this will help someone,
Don B.

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