Insurance...."The Experimental Way"

[RJBWoodman]

For thought: It seems i hear from guys insurance runs from a min of 5000 to
as high as 10,000 for the Moose ....if you can get it per year. Why don't we
organize a commitee and create our own insurance company. With 50 Moose and
several hundred Rebels at those dollars we would have gross income of 2-3
million US dollars a year. Or as things goes the same in CDN funds ???? Ha Ha.
With this kind of funding we could run a well organized fund and cover whatever
comes up. We experimantal guys are very safe flyers. In five years i doubt
very much we could wreck 12,000,000 worth of Murphy airplanes. Give it some
thoughts. I'm will wait your comments.
Randy Bowers
Moose 130




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[Scott Aldrich]

Randy,

Interesting idea. It would think it would have to be for bent aluminum only
though no liability, one death and the lawyers would it up fast. That
(liability) could be done on your own though.


Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
RJBWoodman@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 6:00 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"

For thought: It seems i hear from guys insurance runs from a min of 5000 to

as high as 10,000 for the Moose ....if you can get it per year. Why don't we

organize a commitee and create our own insurance company. With 50 Moose and

several hundred Rebels at those dollars we would have gross income of 2-3
million US dollars a year. Or as things goes the same in CDN funds ???? Ha
Ha.
With this kind of funding we could run a well organized fund and cover
whatever
comes up. We experimantal guys are very safe flyers. In five years i doubt
very much we could wreck 12,000,000 worth of Murphy airplanes. Give it some

thoughts. I'm will wait your comments.
Randy Bowers
Moose 130




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[Al Paxhia]

Randy,
Self insurance for hull only is a great idea. The lawyers will get the pool
of money if large or small on liability. Another thought is all members
would share in the rebuild process. Like a barn raising. The premium funds
could cover parts and expenses for the work crew.
I take it all back, too complicated.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: <RJBWoodman@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 4:59 PM
Subject: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"

For thought: It seems i hear from guys insurance runs from a min of 5000
to
as high as 10,000 for the Moose ....if you can get it per year. Why don't
we
organize a commitee and create our own insurance company. With 50 Moose
and
several hundred Rebels at those dollars we would have gross income of 2-3
million US dollars a year. Or as things goes the same in CDN funds ???? Ha
Ha.
With this kind of funding we could run a well organized fund and cover
whatever
comes up. We experimantal guys are very safe flyers. In five years i doubt
very much we could wreck 12,000,000 worth of Murphy airplanes. Give it
some
thoughts. I'm will wait your comments.
Randy Bowers
Moose 130




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[Walter Klatt]

Heck, why not just let Wayne be the "underwriter" for us. And if
we prang it, he could also fix them for half the cost, and keep
our rates down even lower. That way he comes out ahead, and so do
we! Sounds like a no-brainer to me...

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Al
Paxhia
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 6:17 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"


Randy,
Self insurance for hull only is a great idea. The
lawyers will get the pool
of money if large or small on liability. Another
thought is all members
would share in the rebuild process. Like a barn
raising. The premium funds
could cover parts and expenses for the work crew.
I take it all back, too complicated.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: <RJBWoodman@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 4:59 PM
Subject: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"

For thought: It seems i hear from guys insurance

runs from a min of 5000

to
as high as 10,000 for the Moose ....if you can get

it per year. Why don't

we
organize a commitee and create our own insurance

company. With 50 Moose

and
several hundred Rebels at those dollars we would

have gross income of 2-3

million US dollars a year. Or as things goes the

same in CDN funds ???? Ha

Ha.
With this kind of funding we could run a well

organized fund and cover

whatever
comes up. We experimantal guys are very safe flyers.

In five years i doubt

very much we could wreck 12,000,000 worth of Murphy

airplanes. Give it

some
thoughts. I'm will wait your comments.
Randy Bowers
Moose 130

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[Scott Aldrich]

I am sure someone will have a reason (if not a law pushed through by the
insurance companies) why this can't be done.

But it sounds good.

You could actually get the yearly premium fairly low. Invest a certain
amount and after a pre determined cap of fund value pay out dividends to
each member.

I like the idea of only paying for parts and maybe expenses for the rebuild
crew. Everyone has a different idea of the "value" of their build labor and
to keep premiums low the value could be zero, just replace the parts. Maybe
if totaled a fast build?

It seems you would only want to pay out in parts or replacement not cash.
That way if I got tired of my airplane I couldn't just drive it through a
dock with all my crash gear on and get cash to get out of trying to sell a
homebuilt.

Then there is the installed equipment. Do you have higher premium for
someone with a gazillion dollars of avionics? Do you cover avionics? Prop
strikes?

Okay, you're right Al, it is getting too complicated...

But then again, hmmm.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Al
Paxhia
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:17 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"

Randy,
Self insurance for hull only is a great idea. The lawyers will get the pool
of money if large or small on liability. Another thought is all members
would share in the rebuild process. Like a barn raising. The premium funds
could cover parts and expenses for the work crew.
I take it all back, too complicated.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: <RJBWoodman@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 4:59 PM
Subject: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"

For thought: It seems i hear from guys insurance runs from a min of 5000
to
as high as 10,000 for the Moose ....if you can get it per year. Why don't
we
organize a commitee and create our own insurance company. With 50 Moose
and
several hundred Rebels at those dollars we would have gross income of 2-3
million US dollars a year. Or as things goes the same in CDN funds ???? Ha

Ha.
With this kind of funding we could run a well organized fund and cover
whatever
comes up. We experimantal guys are very safe flyers. In five years i doubt
very much we could wreck 12,000,000 worth of Murphy airplanes. Give it
some
thoughts. I'm will wait your comments.
Randy Bowers
Moose 130




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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Think I'll stay out of this one and you let me know what the conclusion is !
)

Just remember guys....what you think the damage value is and what I (or who
ever else the adjuster uses for an estimate) estimate the damage at are too
whole different things and could make or break the first thing that comes
out of an adjusters mouth..." when the value of the recovery + the cost of
repairs = x% of the face value of the policy we take the airplane and write
you a cheque for the face value - the deductible". This is where under
insuring can get you into more trouble than not bothering to carry hull
insurance at all! Nothing worse than loosing that perfectly good engine,
prop, full rack of radios and instruments to the insurance company for a
cheque for less than they're worth... if you are lowballing your airplanes
value with no consideration for labour expenses to build it. Yes of course
you usually get first right of refusal to buy back your wreck...but they
generally won't tell you what they will want until you accept to take their
cheque first. If you were underinsured for say $70,000 and they want $30,000
to $40,000 for your salvage are you gaining or paying again on top of all
those premiums??

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 9:27 PM
Subject: RE: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"

Heck, why not just let Wayne be the "underwriter" for us. And if
we prang it, he could also fix them for half the cost, and keep
our rates down even lower. That way he comes out ahead, and so do
we! Sounds like a no-brainer to me...

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Al
Paxhia
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 6:17 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"


Randy,
Self insurance for hull only is a great idea. The
lawyers will get the pool
of money if large or small on liability. Another
thought is all members
would share in the rebuild process. Like a barn
raising. The premium funds
could cover parts and expenses for the work crew.
I take it all back, too complicated.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: <RJBWoodman@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 4:59 PM
Subject: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"

For thought: It seems i hear from guys insurance

runs from a min of 5000

to
as high as 10,000 for the Moose ....if you can get

it per year. Why don't

we
organize a commitee and create our own insurance

company. With 50 Moose

and
several hundred Rebels at those dollars we would

have gross income of 2-3

million US dollars a year. Or as things goes the

same in CDN funds ???? Ha

Ha.
With this kind of funding we could run a well

organized fund and cover

whatever
comes up. We experimantal guys are very safe flyers.

In five years i doubt

very much we could wreck 12,000,000 worth of Murphy

airplanes. Give it

some
thoughts. I'm will wait your comments.
Randy Bowers
Moose 130

-------------------------------------------------------
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[Scott Aldrich]

Yup, that is one reason it would be a tough one.

But for very low premiums I would think guys would be more than happy (I
would anyway) to get a box of shinny new aluminum parts, forget the labor.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:46 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"

Think I'll stay out of this one and you let me know what the conclusion is !
)

Just remember guys....what you think the damage value is and what I (or who
ever else the adjuster uses for an estimate) estimate the damage at are too
whole different things and could make or break the first thing that comes
out of an adjusters mouth..." when the value of the recovery + the cost of
repairs = x% of the face value of the policy we take the airplane and write
you a cheque for the face value - the deductible". This is where under
insuring can get you into more trouble than not bothering to carry hull
insurance at all! Nothing worse than loosing that perfectly good engine,
prop, full rack of radios and instruments to the insurance company for a
cheque for less than they're worth... if you are lowballing your airplanes
value with no consideration for labour expenses to build it. Yes of course
you usually get first right of refusal to buy back your wreck...but they
generally won't tell you what they will want until you accept to take their
cheque first. If you were underinsured for say $70,000 and they want $30,000
to $40,000 for your salvage are you gaining or paying again on top of all
those premiums??

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 9:27 PM
Subject: RE: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"

Heck, why not just let Wayne be the "underwriter" for us. And if
we prang it, he could also fix them for half the cost, and keep
our rates down even lower. That way he comes out ahead, and so do
we! Sounds like a no-brainer to me...

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Al
Paxhia
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 6:17 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"


Randy,
Self insurance for hull only is a great idea. The
lawyers will get the pool
of money if large or small on liability. Another
thought is all members
would share in the rebuild process. Like a barn
raising. The premium funds
could cover parts and expenses for the work crew.
I take it all back, too complicated.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: <RJBWoodman@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 4:59 PM
Subject: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"

For thought: It seems i hear from guys insurance

runs from a min of 5000

to
as high as 10,000 for the Moose ....if you can get

it per year. Why don't

we
organize a commitee and create our own insurance

company. With 50 Moose

and
several hundred Rebels at those dollars we would

have gross income of 2-3

million US dollars a year. Or as things goes the

same in CDN funds ???? Ha

Ha.
With this kind of funding we could run a well

organized fund and cover

whatever
comes up. We experimantal guys are very safe flyers.

In five years i doubt

very much we could wreck 12,000,000 worth of Murphy

airplanes. Give it

some
thoughts. I'm will wait your comments.
Randy Bowers
Moose 130

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[Dick Shotwell]

Interesting thought Randy. Could the coverage through this proposed group
extend to US Moose owners?
Dick Shotwell
Moose 096
N235DS
Twin Falls, ID


----- Original Message -----
From: <RJBWoodman@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 17:59 PM
Subject: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"

For thought: It seems i hear from guys insurance runs from a min of 5000

to

as high as 10,000 for the Moose ....if you can get it per year. Why don't

we

organize a commitee and create our own insurance company. With 50 Moose

and

several hundred Rebels at those dollars we would have gross income of 2-3
million US dollars a year. Or as things goes the same in CDN funds ???? Ha

Ha.

With this kind of funding we could run a well organized fund and cover

whatever

comes up. We experimantal guys are very safe flyers. In five years i doubt
very much we could wreck 12,000,000 worth of Murphy airplanes. Give it

some

thoughts. I'm will wait your comments.
Randy Bowers
Moose 130




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[Phil Stubley]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 9:43 PM
Subject: RE: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"

A thought about what is the likely event with a seaplane vs a land plane.

If you stay near home, no diff. But if you prang a seaplane in the boonies,
upside down in some remote lake, then a bundle of aluminum parts isn't much
good. You have to get it out!!!

I had hull coverage for 5 years, expecting to be on floats, and wanting to
keep it on then for a couple of years. Now I am not going on floats so I
have dropped the hull coverage. If I prang it on the ground and can still
work, then the cost of the materials will be unimportant. Then you need a
lot of friends <:-))

m2cw.

Phil





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[Michael Bleau]

Sounds like a good idea, I know i would be interesrted in joining the group
if ti comes to be.

From: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:04:36 -0700

Yup, that is one reason it would be a tough one.

But for very low premiums I would think guys would be more than happy (I
would anyway) to get a box of shinny new aluminum parts, forget the labor.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:46 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"

Think I'll stay out of this one and you let me know what the conclusion is
!
)

Just remember guys....what you think the damage value is and what I (or who
ever else the adjuster uses for an estimate) estimate the damage at are too
whole different things and could make or break the first thing that comes
out of an adjusters mouth..." when the value of the recovery + the cost of
repairs = x% of the face value of the policy we take the airplane and write
you a cheque for the face value - the deductible". This is where under
insuring can get you into more trouble than not bothering to carry hull
insurance at all! Nothing worse than loosing that perfectly good engine,
prop, full rack of radios and instruments to the insurance company for a
cheque for less than they're worth... if you are lowballing your airplanes
value with no consideration for labour expenses to build it. Yes of course
you usually get first right of refusal to buy back your wreck...but they
generally won't tell you what they will want until you accept to take their
cheque first. If you were underinsured for say $70,000 and they want
$30,000
to $40,000 for your salvage are you gaining or paying again on top of all
those premiums??

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 9:27 PM
Subject: RE: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"

Heck, why not just let Wayne be the "underwriter" for us. And if
we prang it, he could also fix them for half the cost, and keep
our rates down even lower. That way he comes out ahead, and so do
we! Sounds like a no-brainer to me...

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Al
Paxhia
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 6:17 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"


Randy,
Self insurance for hull only is a great idea. The
lawyers will get the pool
of money if large or small on liability. Another
thought is all members
would share in the rebuild process. Like a barn
raising. The premium funds
could cover parts and expenses for the work crew.
I take it all back, too complicated.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: <RJBWoodman@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 4:59 PM
Subject: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"

runs from a min of 5000 it per year. Why don't company. With 50 Moose have gross income of 2-3 same in CDN funds ???? Ha organized fund and cover In five years i doubt airplanes. Give it -------------------------------------------------------
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[Scott Aldrich]

Yes, getting one out wouldn't be real cheap depending on how much you wanted
to salvage. If it's totaled though you could probably get it all inside a
Moose (or two) with a good pair of tin snips and a beer can crusher :)


-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Phil
Stubley
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 9:05 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"


----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 9:43 PM
Subject: RE: Insurance...."The Experimental Way"

A thought about what is the likely event with a seaplane vs a land plane.

If you stay near home, no diff. But if you prang a seaplane in the boonies,
upside down in some remote lake, then a bundle of aluminum parts isn't much
good. You have to get it out!!!

I had hull coverage for 5 years, expecting to be on floats, and wanting to
keep it on then for a couple of years. Now I am not going on floats so I
have dropped the hull coverage. If I prang it on the ground and can still
work, then the cost of the materials will be unimportant. Then you need a
lot of friends <:-))

m2cw.

Phil





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[Don Boardman]

Interesting thought Randy. Could the coverage through this proposed group
extend to US Moose owners?
Dick Shotwell
Moose 096
N235DS
Twin Falls, ID

Hi Dick,

I'm Randy's partner in the Moose and though we have not had a chance to talk
about his self-insuring idea yet it certainly would cover US owners as
that's where we live ... I don't see any reason it can't work for all Murphy
owners regardless of country. Personally having a group self insure makes
sense to me. Our glider club, on a much smaller scale, self insures our four
gliders.

I will see Randy Sunday and we will have a good chat on the subject.

Regards,
Don Boardman
& Partner, Randy Bowers
N622D Double Duce Delta Moose
#130 M-14PF 400HP, MT-Prop/Beta, Aerocet 3500 amphibs
Delta Lake, Rome, NY






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