The Murphy Builders Site

Hope that picture's from last year Peter!!!!! If not you need to move
further south!




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If those rivets are 1/8" countersunk (RV4412) then please ground your
airplane before further flight ! These are not correct for the location and
are no where near as strong in shear as the domed head RV1410's. Does you
door seal against this area?? If not there is no reason to go countersunk
here. Do the extra set of rivets in between all the existing and then drill
out the existing and replace them...mind you that's a problem as well since
you'd have to drill them oversize. In that case I would add the rivets
between all the existing and drill out that top 4 or 5..then updrill to 3/16
and install either RV1613's or Stainless RR5604's. This should fix you up
without having to pull the windshield to do the "float fix Bandaid gusset".

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter, Juliet, & Wanaao Piascik" <northofsixty@mac.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: Peter's Rebel on Wheel Skis

Wayne:

That was taken at the end of May on the East Arm of Great Slave. Great
Slave is frozen until the middle of June (Great Bear is frozen until
July!!).

Just pulled the engine today to add the doublers to the firewall. I
would like to add the extra rivets to door jam but the rivets that are
there are counter sunk and I don't have the correct rivets.

Peter


On 23-Oct-04, at 12:45 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Hope that picture's from last year Peter!!!!! If not you need to move
further south!




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Wayne:

That was taken at the end of May on the East Arm of Great Slave. Great
Slave is frozen until the middle of June (Great Bear is frozen until
July!!).

Just pulled the engine today to add the doublers to the firewall. I
would like to add the extra rivets to door jam but the rivets that are
there are counter sunk and I don't have the correct rivets.

Peter


On 23-Oct-04, at 12:45 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Hope that picture's from last year Peter!!!!! If not you need to move
further south!




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If that is the case, it might be worth looking at using structural
rivets for the additional rivets and possibly leaving the existing ones
(or also replacing those with countersunk structural rivets). Of course
even just adding the MAM specified rivets in between what exists would
be stronger than what the manual recommends I would think. Peter the
problem is that in practice the heads seem to pop off those RV4412
countersunk rivets when stressed, which results in an earlier failure
than what the specs would suggest. The 4412 is not a one for one
replacement for a protruding head avex rivet.
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

If those rivets are 1/8" countersunk (RV4412) then please ground your
airplane before further flight ! These are not correct for the location and
are no where near as strong in shear as the domed head RV1410's. Does you
door seal against this area?? If not there is no reason to go countersunk
here. Do the extra set of rivets in between all the existing and then drill
out the existing and replace them...mind you that's a problem as well since
you'd have to drill them oversize. In that case I would add the rivets
between all the existing and drill out that top 4 or 5..then updrill to 3/16
and install either RV1613's or Stainless RR5604's. This should fix you up
without having to pull the windshield to do the "float fix Bandaid gusset".

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter, Juliet, & Wanaao Piascik" <northofsixty@mac.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: Peter's Rebel on Wheel Skis

Wayne:

That was taken at the end of May on the East Arm of Great Slave. Great
Slave is frozen until the middle of June (Great Bear is frozen until
July!!).

Just pulled the engine today to add the doublers to the firewall. I
would like to add the extra rivets to door jam but the rivets that are
there are counter sunk and I don't have the correct rivets.

Peter

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On 26-Oct-04, at 6:38 AM, Ken wrote:

If that is the case, it might be worth looking at using structural
rivets for the additional rivets and possibly leaving the existing ones
(or also replacing those with countersunk structural rivets). Of course
even just adding the MAM specified rivets in between what exists would
be stronger than what the manual recommends I would think. Peter the
problem is that in practice the heads seem to pop off those RV4412
countersunk rivets when stressed, which results in an earlier failure
than what the specs would suggest. The 4412 is not a one for one
replacement for a protruding head avex rivet.
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

If those rivets are 1/8" countersunk (RV4412) then please ground your
airplane before further flight ! These are not correct for the
location and
are no where near as strong in shear as the domed head RV1410's. Does
you
door seal against this area?? If not there is no reason to go
countersunk
here. Do the extra set of rivets in between all the existing and then
drill
out the existing and replace them...mind you that's a problem as well
since
you'd have to drill them oversize. In that case I would add the rivets
between all the existing and drill out that top 4 or 5..then updrill
to 3/16
and install either RV1613's or Stainless RR5604's. This should fix
you up
without having to pull the windshield to do the "float fix Bandaid
gusset".

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter, Juliet, & Wanaao Piascik" <northofsixty@mac.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: Peter's Rebel on Wheel Skis

Wayne:

That was taken at the end of May on the East Arm of Great Slave.
Great
Slave is frozen until the middle of June (Great Bear is frozen until
July!!).

Just pulled the engine today to add the doublers to the firewall. I
would like to add the extra rivets to door jam but the rivets that
are
there are counter sunk and I don't have the correct rivets.

Peter

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Thanks for the info. I'll get on that right away.

Peter

On 26-Oct-04, at 6:38 AM, Ken wrote:

If that is the case, it might be worth looking at using structural
rivets for the additional rivets and possibly leaving the existing ones
(or also replacing those with countersunk structural rivets). Of course
even just adding the MAM specified rivets in between what exists would
be stronger than what the manual recommends I would think. Peter the
problem is that in practice the heads seem to pop off those RV4412
countersunk rivets when stressed, which results in an earlier failure
than what the specs would suggest. The 4412 is not a one for one
replacement for a protruding head avex rivet.
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

If those rivets are 1/8" countersunk (RV4412) then please ground your
airplane before further flight ! These are not correct for the
location and
are no where near as strong in shear as the domed head RV1410's. Does
you
door seal against this area?? If not there is no reason to go
countersunk
here. Do the extra set of rivets in between all the existing and then
drill
out the existing and replace them...mind you that's a problem as well
since
you'd have to drill them oversize. In that case I would add the rivets
between all the existing and drill out that top 4 or 5..then updrill
to 3/16
and install either RV1613's or Stainless RR5604's. This should fix
you up
without having to pull the windshield to do the "float fix Bandaid
gusset".

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter, Juliet, & Wanaao Piascik" <northofsixty@mac.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: Peter's Rebel on Wheel Skis

Wayne:

That was taken at the end of May on the East Arm of Great Slave.
Great
Slave is frozen until the middle of June (Great Bear is frozen until
July!!).

Just pulled the engine today to add the doublers to the firewall. I
would like to add the extra rivets to door jam but the rivets that
are
there are counter sunk and I don't have the correct rivets.

Peter

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