Blown hydraulicline

[ray.mason]

Went out to go for a spin today and found my floats on the ground and the
wheels in that sad looking position. My pressure would hold pretty well so I
stopped putting in the gear locks. A couple of pumps on the handle yielded a
floor full of fluid. Another good example for not putting in an electric pump
as only 1/2 cup was on the floor instead of the whole reservoir. Anyway it
turns out the high pressure line to the gear selector had blown, and not just
popped off the fitting. I think with the really warm temps lately the fluid
must have expand increasing the pressure and causing the line to blow. The
cheap plastic line that MAM uses can that be bought at an industrial supply
shop or just from MAM? And to put it on the fittings do the ends have to be
softened up in boiling water? What is the life span of this stuff?

Regards Ray



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[ray.mason]

Hi Walter and all

These floats were installed in the winter of 97 so have been on a while also.
The weather here is too good to wait for MAM so if I can get it fixed
tommorrow I will fly down to MAM on Monday (are they open saturdays?). There
wasn't really much of a bend where it blew but I kind of remember it was
looking a little yellow. The line I have is white not clear. Thanks for all
the info

Happy flying
Ray



On 5/14/2004 6:42 PM, RAY MASON wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> Went out to go for a spin today and found my floats on the ground and the
-> wheels in that sad looking position. My pressure would hold pretty well so
I
-> stopped putting in the gear locks. A couple of pumps on the handle yielded
a
-> floor full of fluid. Another good example for not putting in an electric
pump
-> as only 1/2 cup was on the floor instead of the whole reservoir. Anyway it
-> turns out the high pressure line to the gear selector had blown, and not
just
-> popped off the fitting. I think with the really warm temps lately the
fluid
-> must have expand increasing the pressure and causing the line to blow.
The
-> cheap plastic line that MAM uses can that be bought at an industrial
supply
-> shop or just from MAM? And to put it on the fittings do the ends have to
be
-> softened up in boiling water? What is the life span of this stuff?
->
-> Regards Ray
->




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[Drew Dalgleish]

Hi Ray I had similar problems with my lines. It appeared I was sent 3
different kinds of plastic line. Some of it was junk and some was
dangerously poor quality going hard and kinking in only a few hours. I
replaced all my lines with DOT approved truck air brake hose and fittings
cost about $150can. and was well worth it to end most of my hydraulic
problems. Angus MacKenzie used aluminum lines on his floats. I feel a lot
of the hydraulic system as supplied by MAM is not airworthy.

Went out to go for a spin today and found my floats on the ground and the
wheels in that sad looking position. My pressure would hold pretty well so I
stopped putting in the gear locks. A couple of pumps on the handle yielded a
floor full of fluid. Another good example for not putting in an electric

pump

as only 1/2 cup was on the floor instead of the whole reservoir. Anyway it
turns out the high pressure line to the gear selector had blown, and not

just

popped off the fitting. I think with the really warm temps lately the fluid
must have expand increasing the pressure and causing the line to blow. The
cheap plastic line that MAM uses can that be bought at an industrial supply
shop or just from MAM? And to put it on the fittings do the ends have to be
softened up in boiling water? What is the life span of this stuff?

Regards Ray



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Drew




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[Legeorgen]

Hi Ray,

Sorry to hear about your problem with the hydraulic line today. I did the
same thing two weeks ago but it was a popped nylon fitting not a line rupture.

The line and fittings are a polypipe and can be purchased from an industrial
hose supply store or Aircraft Spruce.

The polypipe has better ware characteristics than aluminum tubing but
probably no as much PSI. The hand pump gear hydraulics are low pressure anyway.

Did you have a tight bend in the line? This will cause it to crack after a
short time. Polypipe does not bend well.

Lucky it happened on the ground and not in flight!

Bruce



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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Ray, Howard's has been in operation since 1998...so 6 full years and this
will be the 7th float season. We have NEVER blown a line off. Had a few
weepers, that nothing but tightening up the plastic nut quickly fixed. Sits
outside all summer on his airlift and in the hanger for the winter with the
floats blocked and gear hanging in the air to let the shock struts relax and
to keep the tires round.

If the nose wheels are castered trailing, no pressure is required to keep
the gear in place. The main is over center so it's locked as well. Park the
plane and flip your gear selector back and forth to bleed off the pressure
and you should be fine...as long as you pump it back up before moving the
plane.

The "cheap plastic line" is nothing but Parker Parflex NR-6-048 (3/8" O.D.
x .048 wall - 425 W.P. UL94HB) that's available from most any machinery
supply house or hydraulics outfit. But considering you are in B.C. why don't
you just give MAM a call and get it right from there. Shipping department
seems to be running top notch these days!! )

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <ray.mason@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 10:42 PM
Subject: Blown hydraulicline

Went out to go for a spin today and found my floats on the ground and the
wheels in that sad looking position. My pressure would hold pretty well so

I

stopped putting in the gear locks. A couple of pumps on the handle yielded

a

floor full of fluid. Another good example for not putting in an electric

pump

as only 1/2 cup was on the floor instead of the whole reservoir. Anyway it
turns out the high pressure line to the gear selector had blown, and not

just

popped off the fitting. I think with the really warm temps lately the

fluid

must have expand increasing the pressure and causing the line to blow.

The

cheap plastic line that MAM uses can that be bought at an industrial

supply

shop or just from MAM? And to put it on the fittings do the ends have to

be

softened up in boiling water? What is the life span of this stuff?

Regards Ray

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

And yes I agree with Drew, there was some mixed match tubing that went out
with some kits. Howard's had some stiff and some fairly soft tubing when
received. I used the Parker and ignored the unmarked softer stuff with
success. I have also used the Nyloseal tubing and it is even stiffer than
the Parker. Hard to get a good tight hold on it with the plastic fittings
and I have made splices using brass unions with success on this stuff. I
also know the Nyloseal stuff was used on my neighbors Northstar's amphibs
and he was using a 600psi elect pump. Never blew a line.

Secret is with this plastic line that yes you need a warm day to install the
fittings, or dip in warm water to softer prior to installing fittings.
Tighten them up by hand as tight as you can and then go do something for a
few hours. Then come back and tighten them again....repeat about 4 times!
This gives the retaining ring inside the nut time to deform the tube to get
a bite on it.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: Blown hydraulicline

Hi Ray I had similar problems with my lines. It appeared I was sent 3
different kinds of plastic line. Some of it was junk and some was
dangerously poor quality going hard and kinking in only a few hours. I
replaced all my lines with DOT approved truck air brake hose and fittings
cost about $150can. and was well worth it to end most of my hydraulic
problems. Angus MacKenzie used aluminum lines on his floats. I feel a lot
of the hydraulic system as supplied by MAM is not airworthy.

Went out to go for a spin today and found my floats on the ground and the
wheels in that sad looking position. My pressure would hold pretty well

so I

stopped putting in the gear locks. A couple of pumps on the handle

yielded a

floor full of fluid. Another good example for not putting in an electric

pump

as only 1/2 cup was on the floor instead of the whole reservoir. Anyway

it

turns out the high pressure line to the gear selector had blown, and not

just

popped off the fitting. I think with the really warm temps lately the

fluid

must have expand increasing the pressure and causing the line to blow.

The

cheap plastic line that MAM uses can that be bought at an industrial

supply

shop or just from MAM? And to put it on the fittings do the ends have to

be

softened up in boiling water? What is the life span of this stuff?

Regards Ray

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Drew

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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Ray !

Wayne made a good point there for ALL amphib fliers - when you get
parked, flip the selector to the center position to bleed off the pressure,
and leave it there. This stops any pressure build-up from hot sunshine,
and might just save you a lot of grief !
(And ALWAYS use your gear locks ! ;-) )

MAM isn't open on Saturdays, but you might get them to leave the
tubing with Gord Firkus at his shop at the airport ....

......bobp

----------------------------orig.-------------------
On Friday 14 May 2004 11:29 pm, you wrote:

Hi Walter and all

These floats were installed in the winter of 97 so have been on a while

also.

The weather here is too good to wait for MAM so if I can get it fixed
tommorrow I will fly down to MAM on Monday (are they open saturdays?).

There

wasn't really much of a bend where it blew but I kind of remember it was
looking a little yellow. The line I have is white not clear. Thanks for all
the info

Happy flying
Ray



On 5/14/2004 6:42 PM, RAY MASON wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> Went out to go for a spin today and found my floats on the ground and

the

-> wheels in that sad looking position. My pressure would hold pretty well

so

I
-> stopped putting in the gear locks. A couple of pumps on the handle

yielded

a
-> floor full of fluid. Another good example for not putting in an electric
pump
-> as only 1/2 cup was on the floor instead of the whole reservoir. Anyway

it

-> turns out the high pressure line to the gear selector had blown, and not
just
-> popped off the fitting. I think with the really warm temps lately the
fluid
-> must have expand increasing the pressure and causing the line to blow.
The
-> cheap plastic line that MAM uses can that be bought at an industrial
supply
-> shop or just from MAM? And to put it on the fittings do the ends have to
be
-> softened up in boiling water? What is the life span of this stuff?
->
-> Regards Ray
->




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[Walter Klatt]

Maybe I have been lucky, too, but have never had that problem
either. And I have taken mine to over 11,000 feet where you would
think the pressure would be more, although it is cooler up there.

As Bob says, I always put my lever to neutral when not pumping up
or down. I do have a slow leakdown with the wheels up, as I
always have to remember to pump up before taking off on water. So
maybe that helps with mine.

I never had leaking or weeping with the plastic connectors, but
the I did on the metal brass ones until I changed the type of
inner collar I was using. I had trouble getting the ones that MAM
provided to not leak.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:21 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Blown hydraulicline



Hi Ray !

Wayne made a good point there for ALL amphib fliers -
when you get
parked, flip the selector to the center position to
bleed off the pressure,
and leave it there. This stops any pressure build-up
from hot sunshine,
and might just save you a lot of grief !
(And ALWAYS use your gear locks ! ;-) )

MAM isn't open on Saturdays, but you might get them
to leave the
tubing with Gord Firkus at his shop at the airport ....

......bobp

----------------------------orig.-------------------
On Friday 14 May 2004 11:29 pm, you wrote:

Hi Walter and all

These floats were installed in the winter of 97 so

have been on a while
also.

The weather here is too good to wait for MAM so if I

can get it fixed

tommorrow I will fly down to MAM on Monday (are they

open saturdays?).
There

wasn't really much of a bend where it blew but I

kind of remember it was

looking a little yellow. The line I have is white

not clear. Thanks for all

the info

Happy flying
Ray



On 5/14/2004 6:42 PM, RAY MASON wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> Went out to go for a spin today and found my

floats on the ground and
the

-> wheels in that sad looking position. My pressure

would hold pretty well
so

I
-> stopped putting in the gear locks. A couple of

pumps on the handle
yielded

a
-> floor full of fluid. Another good example for not

putting in an electric

pump
-> as only 1/2 cup was on the floor instead of the

whole reservoir. Anyway
it

-> turns out the high pressure line to the gear

selector had blown, and not

just
-> popped off the fitting. I think with the really

warm temps lately the

fluid
-> must have expand increasing the pressure and

causing the line to blow.

The
-> cheap plastic line that MAM uses can that be

bought at an industrial

supply
-> shop or just from MAM? And to put it on the

fittings do the ends have to

be
-> softened up in boiling water? What is the life

span of this stuff?

->
-> Regards Ray
->

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[Walter Klatt]

Sorry, I shouldn't have said inner. These fit around the outside
of the tubing but inside the nuts. The normal brass ones that
came from MAM were bevelled the same on each side. The ones I got
from a local auto supply store had one end with a small lip, and
they work a lot better. The nuts are the same.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
klehman@albedo.net
Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:24 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Blown hydraulicline


Hi Walter

What inner collars are you using then on the brass fittings?

I have some here with black acetal collars and also a
few older ones
with brass collars. These are the collars that fit
into the nut and over
top of the tubing. I have nothing that fits inside the
tubing as far as
I know.

The last time I used brass fittings was on 0.031" wall
thickness teflon
tubing and it appeared to me that the fittings were
designed for 0.062
wall tubing. The nipple inside the brass fitting that
the tube slides
over was 0.25 od. If MAM is supplying 0.049" wall
tubing, I wonder if
the brass fittings have trouble maintaining a grip on
it because the
inside of the tubing is not backed up by anything.
With the 3/8 od and
5/16 id tubing on my psru oil tank sight gauge, I was
not comfortable
until I put a metal insert in the end of the tubing to
drop the id down
to 1/4 so that everything could be tightened firmly.

Ken

Walter Klatt wrote:

Maybe I have been lucky, too, but have never had

that problem

either. And I have taken mine to over 11,000 feet

where you would

think the pressure would be more, although it is

cooler up there.

As Bob says, I always put my lever to neutral when

not pumping up

or down. I do have a slow leakdown with the wheels up, as I
always have to remember to pump up before taking

off on water. So

maybe that helps with mine.

I never had leaking or weeping with the plastic

connectors, but

the I did on the metal brass ones until I changed

the type of

inner collar I was using. I had trouble getting the

ones that MAM

provided to not leak.

Walter

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[klehman]

Hi Walter

What inner collars are you using then on the brass fittings?

I have some here with black acetal collars and also a few older ones
with brass collars. These are the collars that fit into the nut and over
top of the tubing. I have nothing that fits inside the tubing as far as
I know.

The last time I used brass fittings was on 0.031" wall thickness teflon
tubing and it appeared to me that the fittings were designed for 0.062
wall tubing. The nipple inside the brass fitting that the tube slides
over was 0.25 od. If MAM is supplying 0.049" wall tubing, I wonder if
the brass fittings have trouble maintaining a grip on it because the
inside of the tubing is not backed up by anything. With the 3/8 od and
5/16 id tubing on my psru oil tank sight gauge, I was not comfortable
until I put a metal insert in the end of the tubing to drop the id down
to 1/4 so that everything could be tightened firmly.

Ken

Walter Klatt wrote:

Maybe I have been lucky, too, but have never had that problem
either. And I have taken mine to over 11,000 feet where you would
think the pressure would be more, although it is cooler up there.

As Bob says, I always put my lever to neutral when not pumping up
or down. I do have a slow leakdown with the wheels up, as I
always have to remember to pump up before taking off on water. So
maybe that helps with mine.

I never had leaking or weeping with the plastic connectors, but
the I did on the metal brass ones until I changed the type of
inner collar I was using. I had trouble getting the ones that MAM
provided to not leak.

Walter

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[ray.mason]

Well I fixed it sort of. For those that do not know me I bought the plane
from the builder after he lost his medical. The line that burst was connected
to barb fittings and it appears the line must have been heated considarable
to fit over these 3/8 barb fittings. To get me going I replaced that section
with some 350PSI fuel line. I will be fixing it properly next week hopefully
and any preference with what is prefered would be appricated. I look at the
DOT air line and the brass fittings that go with it, like it better than the
plastic stuff that is on the other fittings.

->
-> Hi Walter
->
-> What inner collars are you using then on the brass fittings?
->
-> I have some here with black acetal collars and also a few older ones
-> with brass collars. These are the collars that fit into the nut and over
-> top of the tubing. I have nothing that fits inside the tubing as far as
-> I know.
->
-> The last time I used brass fittings was on 0.031" wall thickness teflon
-> tubing and it appeared to me that the fittings were designed for 0.062
-> wall tubing. The nipple inside the brass fitting that the tube slides
-> over was 0.25 od. If MAM is supplying 0.049" wall tubing, I wonder if
-> the brass fittings have trouble maintaining a grip on it because the
-> inside of the tubing is not backed up by anything. With the 3/8 od and
-> 5/16 id tubing on my psru oil tank sight gauge, I was not comfortable
-> until I put a metal insert in the end of the tubing to drop the id down
-> to 1/4 so that everything could be tightened firmly.
->
-> Ken
->
-> Walter Klatt wrote:
-> > Maybe I have been lucky, too, but have never had that problem
-> > either. And I have taken mine to over 11,000 feet where you would
-> > think the pressure would be more, although it is cooler up there.
-> >
-> > As Bob says, I always put my lever to neutral when not pumping up
-> > or down. I do have a slow leakdown with the wheels up, as I
-> > always have to remember to pump up before taking off on water. So
-> > maybe that helps with mine.
-> >
-> > I never had leaking or weeping with the plastic connectors, but
-> > the I did on the metal brass ones until I changed the type of
-> > inner collar I was using. I had trouble getting the ones that MAM
-> > provided to not leak.
-> >
-> > Walter
->
->




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