The Murphy Builders Site

I really want to get started building a Rebel, but I don't have an ideal
space for it. I live in an appartment which is part of the bottom floor of a
house. The owners live in the upper portion. There is some space along one
side of the house, about six feet between the house and a fence that I could
possibly enclose with plastic etc. but I havn't yet got the nerve to ask the
landlords if I can modify their house. Another option is a bedroom that will
be vacated for the summer while my roomate is away. (She likes planes too, so
it's OK with her.) Some concerns I have with this option are #1) fumes from
primer. How smelly is the epoxy primer? Like, would it seep through the
ceiling and get to the landlord? Also, is it available in a spray can? I plan
to be on floats, and probably want to coat the whole inside of the tail, but
don't plan to have a compressor until I at least have a garage. I would go
outside to spray large surfaces, and probably brush on the mating surfaces
inside during assembly. #2) Again not having a compressor means no air drill
(the noise is a factor here too) so what do you think about using a good
electric drill for now until I get a real shop? #3) Space. How big a table do
I need for just the tail sub-kit? The bedroom is about 12x12.
With these and any other factors in mind, does this seem like a reasonable
plan?
Thanks. Jesse



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Hi Jesse,

I'll try to answer some of your questions:

->Some concerns I have with this option are #1) fumes from
-> primer. How smelly is the epoxy primer? Like, would it seep through the
-> ceiling and get to the landlord?

Yes it will. For the first 3 1/2 years, I built my Rebel in our attached
garage. My wife always knew when I was using acetone, epoxy primer, pro-seal,
etc. It bothered her no end and, in fact, sickened her at times. She has
always been sensitive to chemical smells. The fumes can permeate the home.
She was a trooper though, and put up with it until I was able to move the
project to a hangar.

-> not having a compressor means no air drill
-> (the noise is a factor here too) so what do you think about using a good
-> electric drill for now until I get a real shop?

I used only electric drills. DeWalt and Dremel. They work fine.

-> How big a table do I need for just the tail sub-kit?

I assembled the tail kit on a 4'x 8' table top and it was plenty big enough.

-> With these and any other factors in mind, does this seem like a reasonable
-> plan?

In my opinion? No.

A 12' x 12' work area is big enough for the tail kit assembly, but not the
wing or fuselage. And you need a place to put the assembled pieces once
constructed. Unless you live in a Florida like climate, working in an outside
area during the winter would likely stress your desire to continue building,
IMO. I just spent my first winter working in an unheated, uninsulated hangar.
I found that when the temps dropped below 40 deg F, it was just to cold to
continue. I likened it to trying to work in a refrigerator.

Keep in mind, these are my experiences and opinions. I have nearly completed
my Rebel from the firewall back with 4+ years of building invested.

Others may have different opinions/experiences.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!


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Hi Jesse,

I do not normally pipe up as I am a parts manufacturer and not a Rebel builder, but I do build Rebel parts.
You will need to do something different regarding insurance and a work space.
My full time job is a property adjuster for a Michigan based insurance co.

I would suggest the following:
1. Secure seperate insurance for any plane that you would build. Check with the EAA or RAA and secure coverage during the building process. Homeowner/renter policies do not cover airplane parts.
2. You should have a rental policy that covered your personal property, and this would also have liability coverage for damages you caused by accident. In order to not have coverage for a fire causing damage to landlords property you would have to have cause it intentionally. While a fire may be an accident, creating a smell that permeates the structure could be constrused as forseable and the cost to repair would be excluded in the rental policy.
3. The cleaning/construction chemicals used in all aircraft building will cause damage to structure, furnishings, clothing, your health, etc.

My reccomendations would be to not build in any building where humans and animals live. Don't take the health risk. Everyone what's you to finish your aircraft and fly it for ever. We do not want you ailing from health problems caused by chemicals.
If you are near any communities that have farms, Rural area, out buildings, pole barns, vacant garages, check with those people, explain what you want to do and rent the building from them. You would be surprised what a 100.00 a month can rent in the form of a small building.
When you do locate a building, seek proper insurance to cover you, your plane and the property owners property.
The final thing is plan on making your work shop usable, have proper heat, good ventilation, good lighting, a fire extinguisher (just in case), drywall and insulate the walls and ceiling, have good breathing mask or what I use, outside pressurized air source.
Don't give up on the process, work forward as the final product is worth the wait.

Dave Fife, 3D Composite Aircraft Parts.
"Michael P. Snow" <michael.snow@rogers.com> wrote:
Hello Jesse,

The one thing nobody has brought up is the risk you will be to the landlords
property, just imagine if something were to ever happen like if there was
ever a fire? The landlords insurance would probably be voided; you would
certainly have no insurance of your apartment contents once you started
something like this. You would most like face a civil action and be found
responsible for the landlords property.

Sorry to be a party pooper but in today's society things are changing fast,
especially in regards to the insurance industry. If they can find an out,
they will.

I recommend that you look for an alternate place to build your kit.

Michael P. Snow
Tundra 180 Builder

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DreamAircraft_Tundra180/


-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
klehman@albedo.net
Sent: April 2, 2004 8:56 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Building in the bedroom?

Jesse
I did my wings and everything smaller in my basement in about an 9 foot
wide area. A lot of the smell comes from the acetone that I use for
degreasing and cleaning the brushes. For large parts and proseal I use
an exhaust fan in a window. That is probably not a solution for you but
the tail surfaces could always be rivetted outside in warm weather.
Perhaps on a picnic table or something. Hand pulling the rivets would be
doable for the tail surfaces although that is not realistic for larger
parts. Actually installing the rivets is a very very small part of the
work and for the most part could be delayed somewhat. For example I had
the precover inspection done for my entire plane at one time which meant
that I delayed rivetting the tops on all the surfaces. I certainly agree
that there will be frustration in what you propose but there would also
be a great deal of learning and adequate experience to decide whether
you want to continue with the rest of the kit.
Ken

rebel@dcsol.com wrote:

I really want to get started building a Rebel, but I don't have an ideal
space for it. I live in an appartment which is part of the bottom floor of

a

house. The owners live in the upper portion. There is some space along one
side of the house, about six feet between the house and a fence that I

could

possibly enclose with plastic etc. but I havn't yet got the nerve to ask

the

landlords if I can modify their house. Another option is a bedroom that

will

be vacated for the summer while my roomate is away. (She likes planes too,

so

it's OK with her.) Some concerns I have with this option are #1) fumes

from

primer. How smelly is the epoxy primer? Like, would it seep through the
ceiling and get to the landlord? Also, is it available in a spray can? I

plan

to be on floats, and probably want to coat the whole inside of the tail,

but

don't plan to have a compressor until I at least have a garage. I would go
outside to spray large surfaces, and probably brush on the mating surfaces
inside during assembly. #2) Again not having a compressor means no air

drill

(the noise is a factor here too) so what do you think about using a good
electric drill for now until I get a real shop? #3) Space. How big a table

do

I need for just the tail sub-kit? The bedroom is about 12x12.
With these and any other factors in mind, does this seem like a reasonable
plan?
Thanks. Jesse

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where were you able to get builders insurance? and approximate cost? thanks.
mike

From: "Robert Johnson" <bodine_engineering@on.aibn.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Building in the bedroom?
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:16:40 -0500

Jesse, I agree with Gean: If this is something you want to do - you will do
it. I was fortunate enough to have a large basement, but I wanted to build
this Rebel so bad I would have done it in the bathroom.- who need a tub
anyway. As far as insurance, I could not "add it to my home insurance" but
a
sepparate policy to cover the kit and "builders insurance" was not very
expensive. This is 2004 - you can get insurance on just about anything.-
Bob
J. Rebel 652
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean Poirier" <oxyport@globetrotter.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: Building in the bedroom?






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Jesse
I did my wings and everything smaller in my basement in about an 9 foot
wide area. A lot of the smell comes from the acetone that I use for
degreasing and cleaning the brushes. For large parts and proseal I use
an exhaust fan in a window. That is probably not a solution for you but
the tail surfaces could always be rivetted outside in warm weather.
Perhaps on a picnic table or something. Hand pulling the rivets would be
doable for the tail surfaces although that is not realistic for larger
parts. Actually installing the rivets is a very very small part of the
work and for the most part could be delayed somewhat. For example I had
the precover inspection done for my entire plane at one time which meant
that I delayed rivetting the tops on all the surfaces. I certainly agree
that there will be frustration in what you propose but there would also
be a great deal of learning and adequate experience to decide whether
you want to continue with the rest of the kit.
Ken

rebel@dcsol.com wrote:

I really want to get started building a Rebel, but I don't have an ideal
space for it. I live in an appartment which is part of the bottom floor of a
house. The owners live in the upper portion. There is some space along one
side of the house, about six feet between the house and a fence that I could
possibly enclose with plastic etc. but I havn't yet got the nerve to ask the
landlords if I can modify their house. Another option is a bedroom that will
be vacated for the summer while my roomate is away. (She likes planes too, so
it's OK with her.) Some concerns I have with this option are #1) fumes from
primer. How smelly is the epoxy primer? Like, would it seep through the
ceiling and get to the landlord? Also, is it available in a spray can? I plan
to be on floats, and probably want to coat the whole inside of the tail, but
don't plan to have a compressor until I at least have a garage. I would go
outside to spray large surfaces, and probably brush on the mating surfaces
inside during assembly. #2) Again not having a compressor means no air drill
(the noise is a factor here too) so what do you think about using a good
electric drill for now until I get a real shop? #3) Space. How big a table do
I need for just the tail sub-kit? The bedroom is about 12x12.
With these and any other factors in mind, does this seem like a reasonable
plan?
Thanks. Jesse

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Thanks to all who replied. I appreciate your input. What I get from this is
that the chemicals are not a good idea in the house. I anticipate moving
within the next six months/year maybe, and I will definitely be looking for
a better building space at that time. In the meantime though, I just really
want to get started. I have been dreaming of building a plane since
highschool, but have never had the right combination of money, time, and
workshop all happen at the same time. I have decided that like many things
in life I just have to make it happen. The other thing that feels good right
now is deciding on the Rebel. I (like most of you, I'm sure) have gone
through many ideas of what kind of plane I wanted, and could afford. I have
enough flying experience now to know what I really want to do with an
airplane when I finally have one. From there, it was pretty clear that the
Rebel fits me the best, and knowing what you want is half the battle. It's
kind of funny to think that I started out on this whole flying thing about
20 years ago with models, and dreamed of building my own airplane, but had
no idea that you actually have to make a living in this world. I went off to
flight school with that innocent thought. Luckily it turned out that people
actually want to pay me to fly airplanes (not much though). Anyway, here I
am droning along day after day at 20,000 feet and still dreaming about
building my own plane.
Another question: Could I prepare all the tail assemblies without riveting,
and then take the whole thing elsewhere to prime and rivet? Or do you have
to do some riveting along the way, like ribs to spars or whatever? Even so,
could I just do a minimal amount of priming/riveting outside the house to
get things assembled to that point? As I understand it, most of the time is
spent drilling and preparing for riveting, so that part might be doable in
the house, and just keep the chemical part outside completely, and save as
much as possible for when I have a real shop, or just take it to a friends
hanger for the final assembly. (I can use his hanger/workshop, but it's a
45min drive).
Thanks again all.
Jesse

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Jesse

I am building my rebel in a 2 car garage. Tail is done and I start first
wing this weekend. If you buy a complete kit, you will have to find
storage space. You definitly have to find somthing bigger in a near
future, why not now, you will need it anyway.... If you decide to build
anyway, may be you start with the tail kit only and uou will see if you like
that and then find a bigger place. The only disavantage if you go that way,
if you stop your tail kit value will be close to nothing.... good luck....
P.S.: 99% of people have try to convince me of not building a homebuilt
airplane.....you know what I mean... if you thing they are true do not
start.... if that "dream" always come back again and again, do it!

Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: Building in the bedroom?

Jesse
I did my wings and everything smaller in my basement in about an 9 foot
wide area. A lot of the smell comes from the acetone that I use for
degreasing and cleaning the brushes. For large parts and proseal I use
an exhaust fan in a window. That is probably not a solution for you but
the tail surfaces could always be rivetted outside in warm weather.
Perhaps on a picnic table or something. Hand pulling the rivets would be
doable for the tail surfaces although that is not realistic for larger
parts. Actually installing the rivets is a very very small part of the
work and for the most part could be delayed somewhat. For example I had
the precover inspection done for my entire plane at one time which meant
that I delayed rivetting the tops on all the surfaces. I certainly agree
that there will be frustration in what you propose but there would also
be a great deal of learning and adequate experience to decide whether
you want to continue with the rest of the kit.
Ken

rebel@dcsol.com wrote:

I really want to get started building a Rebel, but I don't have an ideal
space for it. I live in an appartment which is part of the bottom floor

of a

house. The owners live in the upper portion. There is some space along

one

side of the house, about six feet between the house and a fence that I

could

possibly enclose with plastic etc. but I havn't yet got the nerve to ask

the

landlords if I can modify their house. Another option is a bedroom that

will

be vacated for the summer while my roomate is away. (She likes planes

too, so

it's OK with her.) Some concerns I have with this option are #1) fumes

from

primer. How smelly is the epoxy primer? Like, would it seep through the
ceiling and get to the landlord? Also, is it available in a spray can? I

plan

to be on floats, and probably want to coat the whole inside of the tail,

but

don't plan to have a compressor until I at least have a garage. I would

go

outside to spray large surfaces, and probably brush on the mating

surfaces

inside during assembly. #2) Again not having a compressor means no air

drill

(the noise is a factor here too) so what do you think about using a good
electric drill for now until I get a real shop? #3) Space. How big a

table do

I need for just the tail sub-kit? The bedroom is about 12x12.
With these and any other factors in mind, does this seem like a

reasonable

plan?
Thanks. Jesse

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Hello Jesse,

The one thing nobody has brought up is the risk you will be to the landlords
property, just imagine if something were to ever happen like if there was
ever a fire? The landlords insurance would probably be voided; you would
certainly have no insurance of your apartment contents once you started
something like this. You would most like face a civil action and be found
responsible for the landlords property.

Sorry to be a party pooper but in today's society things are changing fast,
especially in regards to the insurance industry. If they can find an out,
they will.

I recommend that you look for an alternate place to build your kit.

Michael P. Snow
Tundra 180 Builder

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DreamAircraft_Tundra180/


-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
klehman@albedo.net
Sent: April 2, 2004 8:56 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Building in the bedroom?

Jesse
I did my wings and everything smaller in my basement in about an 9 foot
wide area. A lot of the smell comes from the acetone that I use for
degreasing and cleaning the brushes. For large parts and proseal I use
an exhaust fan in a window. That is probably not a solution for you but
the tail surfaces could always be rivetted outside in warm weather.
Perhaps on a picnic table or something. Hand pulling the rivets would be
doable for the tail surfaces although that is not realistic for larger
parts. Actually installing the rivets is a very very small part of the
work and for the most part could be delayed somewhat. For example I had
the precover inspection done for my entire plane at one time which meant
that I delayed rivetting the tops on all the surfaces. I certainly agree
that there will be frustration in what you propose but there would also
be a great deal of learning and adequate experience to decide whether
you want to continue with the rest of the kit.
Ken

rebel@dcsol.com wrote:

I really want to get started building a Rebel, but I don't have an ideal
space for it. I live in an appartment which is part of the bottom floor of

a

house. The owners live in the upper portion. There is some space along one
side of the house, about six feet between the house and a fence that I

could

possibly enclose with plastic etc. but I havn't yet got the nerve to ask

the

landlords if I can modify their house. Another option is a bedroom that

will

be vacated for the summer while my roomate is away. (She likes planes too,

so

it's OK with her.) Some concerns I have with this option are #1) fumes

from

primer. How smelly is the epoxy primer? Like, would it seep through the
ceiling and get to the landlord? Also, is it available in a spray can? I

plan

to be on floats, and probably want to coat the whole inside of the tail,

but

don't plan to have a compressor until I at least have a garage. I would go
outside to spray large surfaces, and probably brush on the mating surfaces
inside during assembly. #2) Again not having a compressor means no air

drill

(the noise is a factor here too) so what do you think about using a good
electric drill for now until I get a real shop? #3) Space. How big a table

do

I need for just the tail sub-kit? The bedroom is about 12x12.
With these and any other factors in mind, does this seem like a reasonable
plan?
Thanks. Jesse

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Jesse, I agree with Gean: If this is something you want to do - you will do
it. I was fortunate enough to have a large basement, but I wanted to build
this Rebel so bad I would have done it in the bathroom.- who need a tub
anyway. As far as insurance, I could not "add it to my home insurance" but a
sepparate policy to cover the kit and "builders insurance" was not very
expensive. This is 2004 - you can get insurance on just about anything.- Bob
J. Rebel 652
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean Poirier" <oxyport@globetrotter.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: Building in the bedroom?






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I have check builder insurance with COPA and different aircraft insurance
company. Very expensive! I have call the company who insure my home.
First call they refuse because it was an aircraft! I asked them if it was a
"old muscle car", a Picasso paint or Louis XIV old furnitures: no problem!
so I asked then to cover a $30000.00 bunch of aluminium....no problem! They
will cover me up to the first flight (excluded for sure). If Iadd a engine
of $20000.00, I call them and they increase the cover to $50000.00. I pay a
fixed rate for every thousand dollars of value. Have been the cheapest way
for me and it is very flexible!

Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Bleau" <bleaumichael@hotmail.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: Building in the bedroom?

where were you able to get builders insurance? and approximate cost?

thanks.

mike

From: "Robert Johnson" <bodine_engineering@on.aibn.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Building in the bedroom?
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:16:40 -0500

Jesse, I agree with Gean: If this is something you want to do - you will

do

it. I was fortunate enough to have a large basement, but I wanted to

build

this Rebel so bad I would have done it in the bathroom.- who need a tub
anyway. As far as insurance, I could not "add it to my home insurance"

but

a
sepparate policy to cover the kit and "builders insurance" was not very
expensive. This is 2004 - you can get insurance on just about anything.-
Bob
J. Rebel 652
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean Poirier" <oxyport@globetrotter.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: Building in the bedroom?

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Hello All,

You cannot get insurance from the EAA in Canada, I know, I have tried. They
are not set up to do business here at all. As far as I know the RAA has no
insurance coverage either. I have purchased my insurance through Marsh
(COPA) and it was reasonable.

$655.00 for the aircraft while under construction per year based on $150k
finished product.

Considering my kit cost will cost me 40K CDN I think it was a fair value, if
for no other reason just a peace of mind!

P.S I would NEVER ever consider telling my home insurance company that I was
building an aircraft at home.

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Jean
Poirier
Sent: April 2, 2004 1:42 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Building in the bedroom?

I have check builder insurance with COPA and different aircraft insurance
company. Very expensive! I have call the company who insure my home.
First call they refuse because it was an aircraft! I asked them if it was a
"old muscle car", a Picasso paint or Louis XIV old furnitures: no problem!
so I asked then to cover a $30000.00 bunch of aluminium....no problem! They
will cover me up to the first flight (excluded for sure). If Iadd a engine
of $20000.00, I call them and they increase the cover to $50000.00. I pay a
fixed rate for every thousand dollars of value. Have been the cheapest way
for me and it is very flexible!

Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Bleau" <bleaumichael@hotmail.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: Building in the bedroom?

where were you able to get builders insurance? and approximate cost?

thanks.

mike

From: "Robert Johnson" <bodine_engineering@on.aibn.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Building in the bedroom?
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:16:40 -0500

Jesse, I agree with Gean: If this is something you want to do - you will

do

it. I was fortunate enough to have a large basement, but I wanted to

build

this Rebel so bad I would have done it in the bathroom.- who need a tub
anyway. As far as insurance, I could not "add it to my home insurance"

but

a
sepparate policy to cover the kit and "builders insurance" was not very
expensive. This is 2004 - you can get insurance on just about anything.-
Bob
J. Rebel 652
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean Poirier" <oxyport@globetrotter.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: Building in the bedroom?

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Yes you can make/prepare all the tail. Make sure each part is identified to
where it go. you will need a lot of cleco! if you keep the parts assembled
without rivet! But I am sure you can do it
Jean
Rebel 747R
P.S.: Fun feeling! I have just the tail, flaps/ailerons completed I am
already talk about my "experience" it is not really serious...but I have a
lot of fun!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 3:17 PM
Subject: RE: Building in the bedroom?

Thanks to all who replied. I appreciate your input. What I get from this

is

that the chemicals are not a good idea in the house. I anticipate moving
within the next six months/year maybe, and I will definitely be looking

for

a better building space at that time. In the meantime though, I just

really

want to get started. I have been dreaming of building a plane since
highschool, but have never had the right combination of money, time, and
workshop all happen at the same time. I have decided that like many things
in life I just have to make it happen. The other thing that feels good

right

now is deciding on the Rebel. I (like most of you, I'm sure) have gone
through many ideas of what kind of plane I wanted, and could afford. I

have

enough flying experience now to know what I really want to do with an
airplane when I finally have one. From there, it was pretty clear that the
Rebel fits me the best, and knowing what you want is half the battle. It's
kind of funny to think that I started out on this whole flying thing about
20 years ago with models, and dreamed of building my own airplane, but had
no idea that you actually have to make a living in this world. I went off

to

flight school with that innocent thought. Luckily it turned out that

people

actually want to pay me to fly airplanes (not much though). Anyway, here I
am droning along day after day at 20,000 feet and still dreaming about
building my own plane.
Another question: Could I prepare all the tail assemblies without

riveting,

and then take the whole thing elsewhere to prime and rivet? Or do you have
to do some riveting along the way, like ribs to spars or whatever? Even

so,

could I just do a minimal amount of priming/riveting outside the house to
get things assembled to that point? As I understand it, most of the time

is

spent drilling and preparing for riveting, so that part might be doable in
the house, and just keep the chemical part outside completely, and save as
much as possible for when I have a real shop, or just take it to a friends
hanger for the final assembly. (I can use his hanger/workshop, but it's a
45min drive).
Thanks again all.
Jesse

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My home insurance company bill me $290.00 canadian dollars for $30000.00
value (just the airplane, tools and garage are cover by the home insurance)
They will add $10.00 per $1000.00 value added. Still much cheaper than
Copa/Marsh up to $65000.00 value! At that time, I will see...
Jean
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael P. Snow" <michael.snow@rogers.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 3:19 PM
Subject: RE: Building in the bedroom?

Hello All,

You cannot get insurance from the EAA in Canada, I know, I have tried.

They

are not set up to do business here at all. As far as I know the RAA has no
insurance coverage either. I have purchased my insurance through Marsh
(COPA) and it was reasonable.

$655.00 for the aircraft while under construction per year based on $150k
finished product.

Considering my kit cost will cost me 40K CDN I think it was a fair value,

if

for no other reason just a peace of mind!

P.S I would NEVER ever consider telling my home insurance company that I

was

building an aircraft at home.

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Jean
Poirier
Sent: April 2, 2004 1:42 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Building in the bedroom?

I have check builder insurance with COPA and different aircraft insurance
company. Very expensive! I have call the company who insure my home.
First call they refuse because it was an aircraft! I asked them if it was

a

"old muscle car", a Picasso paint or Louis XIV old furnitures: no problem!
so I asked then to cover a $30000.00 bunch of aluminium....no problem!

They

will cover me up to the first flight (excluded for sure). If Iadd a

engine

of $20000.00, I call them and they increase the cover to $50000.00. I pay

a

fixed rate for every thousand dollars of value. Have been the cheapest

way

for me and it is very flexible!

Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Bleau" <bleaumichael@hotmail.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: Building in the bedroom?

where were you able to get builders insurance? and approximate cost?

thanks.

mike

From: "Robert Johnson" <bodine_engineering@on.aibn.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Building in the bedroom?
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:16:40 -0500

Jesse, I agree with Gean: If this is something you want to do - you

will

do

it. I was fortunate enough to have a large basement, but I wanted to

build

this Rebel so bad I would have done it in the bathroom.- who need a tub
anyway. As far as insurance, I could not "add it to my home insurance"

but

a
sepparate policy to cover the kit and "builders insurance" was not very
expensive. This is 2004 - you can get insurance on just about

anything.-

Bob
J. Rebel 652
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean Poirier" <oxyport@globetrotter.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: Building in the bedroom?

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Another question: Could I prepare all the tail assemblies without riveting,
and then take the whole thing elsewhere to prime and rivet? Or do you have
to do some riveting along the way, like ribs to spars or whatever? Even so,
could I just do a minimal amount of priming/riveting outside the house to
get things assembled to that point? As I understand it, most of the time is
spent drilling and preparing for riveting, so that part might be doable in
the house, and just keep the chemical part outside completely, and save as
much as possible for when I have a real shop, or just take it to a friends
hanger for the final assembly. (I can use his hanger/workshop, but it's a
45min drive).
Thanks again all.
Jesse

Jesse
That was what I was trying to suggest earlier. Even if you put a couple
of rivets in, they come out easy and you will get used to removing them
anyway. In fact I purposely put in some very cheap (non-avex) rivets in
a few places to hold something temporarilly. Mostly all you degrease and
prime is the joints, not whole pieces of aluminum. I doubt if you need
more than an ounce or so of primer in the whole tail assembly. You will
make a lot of metal chips from drilling and filing though. They'd
probably destroy rugs and most floors. A 45 min drive would seriously
slow me down (and possibly lead to that Aviatiion Induced Divorce thing)
though and I'm already on a 10 year schedule by the look of things ;(
Ken



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Hi Jesse !

I admire your determination ! By all means, go for it !!

There's a Rebel flying here that was mostly built in a 2 bedroom
apartment, moved to a 1 car garage, and finally assembled in a hangar -
so it can be done !

You likely should rivet the ribs to the spar before attaching the
skins - but you can do all of the drilling & deburring up to that point,
without using any solvents. Then move outside, degrease, apply the
epoxy primer, and rivet the ribs on. You can then move back inside
and cleco, drill, & deburr the skins - all of that should keep you
busy and happy for a while. :-)

The Metal-Sol or acetone evaporates very quickly, and the epoxy
primer hardens chemically, so should be solid in an hour or so - you
won't be outside for too long ! Just long enough to pull those few
rivets for the ribs ..... Of course, if you can get an air rivet
puller, and use of a compressor, it will make life a LOT easier for
those big rivets on the end plugs on the tubes !! ;-) :-)
(Don't forget to add Tube Seal before closing the tubes ...) :-)

You do not want to spray epoxy primer without really good ventilation
AND a fresh air supplying mask/hood ! Several tests by builders, etc. have
shown that just brushing the PolyFiber Epoxy Primer in the joints, assembling
WET, will give plenty of protection. You can always blow in a mist of
Northern Shield or Boeing D-29, or similar, AFTER everything is assembled,
IF you really want to add that protection for the large surfaces. The
6061 Aluminum in the Rebel is MUCH more corrosion resistant than the
2024 used in Cessnas !

What part of the country are you in ?? Maybe we can hook you up
with another builder. Are you coming to Sun 'n Fun ??? If so, don't
miss the Thursday night Murphy Builders Get-Together !!! Meet at the
Murphy booth about 4 pm to find the location... :-)

.....bobp

----------------------------orig.-------------------
On Friday 02 April 2004 03:17 pm, you wrote:

Thanks to all who replied. I appreciate your input. What I get from this is
that the chemicals are not a good idea in the house. I anticipate moving
within the next six months/year maybe, and I will definitely be looking for
a better building space at that time. In the meantime though, I just really
want to get started. I have been dreaming of building a plane since
highschool, but have never had the right combination of money, time, and
workshop all happen at the same time. I have decided that like many things
in life I just have to make it happen. The other thing that feels good

right

now is deciding on the Rebel. I (like most of you, I'm sure) have gone
through many ideas of what kind of plane I wanted, and could afford. I have
enough flying experience now to know what I really want to do with an
airplane when I finally have one. From there, it was pretty clear that the
Rebel fits me the best, and knowing what you want is half the battle. It's
kind of funny to think that I started out on this whole flying thing about
20 years ago with models, and dreamed of building my own airplane, but had
no idea that you actually have to make a living in this world. I went off

to

flight school with that innocent thought. Luckily it turned out that people
actually want to pay me to fly airplanes (not much though). Anyway, here I
am droning along day after day at 20,000 feet and still dreaming about
building my own plane.
Another question: Could I prepare all the tail assemblies without riveting,
and then take the whole thing elsewhere to prime and rivet? Or do you have
to do some riveting along the way, like ribs to spars or whatever? Even so,
could I just do a minimal amount of priming/riveting outside the house to
get things assembled to that point? As I understand it, most of the time is
spent drilling and preparing for riveting, so that part might be doable in
the house, and just keep the chemical part outside completely, and save as
much as possible for when I have a real shop, or just take it to a friends
hanger for the final assembly. (I can use his hanger/workshop, but it's a
45min drive).
Thanks again all.
Jesse

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