The Murphy Builders Site

I'm fabricating and fitting the H-stab/V-stab fairings on the Rebel. My
manual says to use sheet metal screws to attach the top fairing to the H-stab
and V-stab. That's all it says.

Can anyone tell me if these screws for the top fairings are to be drilled
into the root rib flanges of the H-stab/V-stab (between the existing rivets),
or are they just screwed into the skin? It doesn't seem to me that screwing
into the skin alone would provide much of an anchor.

I appreciate the help.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!


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That's how I did mine. I guess you could use rivnuts, or
whatever, but I have found the metal to be plenty tough enough
there to hold sheet metal screws, and have never stripped one, or
had one loosen up on me.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
steve whitenect
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 6:25 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Rebel Stabilizer Fairings


Hi Roger,
I understand that they are to be placed between the
rivets in the flanges
for that reason- more support.

Steve W.

From: rognal@dcsol.com
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Rebel Stabilizer Fairings
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:19:52 -0900

I'm fabricating and fitting the H-stab/V-stab

fairings on the Rebel. My

manual says to use sheet metal screws to attach the

top fairing to the

H-stab
and V-stab. That's all it says.

Can anyone tell me if these screws for the top

fairings are to be drilled

into the root rib flanges of the H-stab/V-stab

(between the existing

rivets),
or are they just screwed into the skin? It doesn't

seem to me that screwing

into the skin alone would provide much of an anchor.

I appreciate the help.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!


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Hi Roger,
I understand that they are to be placed between the rivets in the flanges
for that reason- more support.

Steve W.

From: rognal@dcsol.com
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Rebel Stabilizer Fairings
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:19:52 -0900

I'm fabricating and fitting the H-stab/V-stab fairings on the Rebel. My
manual says to use sheet metal screws to attach the top fairing to the
H-stab
and V-stab. That's all it says.

Can anyone tell me if these screws for the top fairings are to be drilled
into the root rib flanges of the H-stab/V-stab (between the existing
rivets),
or are they just screwed into the skin? It doesn't seem to me that screwing
into the skin alone would provide much of an anchor.

I appreciate the help.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!


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I plan to use rivnuts. If you plan ahead, you can fit tinnermans inside the
skins, but that means knowing in advance where you want the holes, or
leaving the skins so they can be opened up.

Al



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I sheet metal screwed my stab faring without problems. I sheet metal screwed
the wing faring too and never had a problem there either. Rivnuts I would only
use on something you don't want to remove to often. I have seen to many
rivnuts strip out and spin after a few uses. I think anchor nuts would be better if
you wanted to be that cautious.

Bruce



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I used anchor nuts and a clipnut or two on the rib flanges but it
definately added a few hours of construction time. A metal screw into
unreinforced 0.020 skin just doesn't seem acceptable to me either. Mind
you I think I've developed a hatred of sheet metal screws in motorised
machinery. Probably from pulling loose ones out of tires... ;(
Ken

rognal@dcsol.com wrote:

I'm fabricating and fitting the H-stab/V-stab fairings on the Rebel. My
manual says to use sheet metal screws to attach the top fairing to the H-stab
and V-stab. That's all it says.

Can anyone tell me if these screws for the top fairings are to be drilled
into the root rib flanges of the H-stab/V-stab (between the existing rivets),
or are they just screwed into the skin? It doesn't seem to me that screwing
into the skin alone would provide much of an anchor.

I appreciate the help.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!

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Roger,
I used the A6196-6z-1 anchor nuts. I ended up drilling out a few rivets
to get them in there but I like the ability to remove these fairing s often
without fear of stripping the sheet metal. All of the cessna's that I have
worked on use a sheet metal screw for the fairings and the were always
stripping out and you end up with a 1/4" dia. or more sheet metal screws.
Good luck, you'll need it.
Rick D.
Rebel N754SM

Quoting rognal@dcsol.com:

I'm fabricating and fitting the H-stab/V-stab fairings on the Rebel. My
manual says to use sheet metal screws to attach the top fairing to the H-stab

and V-stab. That's all it says.

Can anyone tell me if these screws for the top fairings are to be drilled
into the root rib flanges of the H-stab/V-stab (between the existing rivets),

or are they just screwed into the skin? It doesn't seem to me that screwing
into the skin alone would provide much of an anchor.

I appreciate the help.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!


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Thanks to everyone who responded to my question about attaching the Rebel H-
stab/V-stab fairings.

I like the idea of using 'Rivnuts', but since I want to install the fastener
into the root rib flanges, I feel drilling a .234 hole (min required for a 6-
32 screw rivnut) between the edge of the skin on one side, and the edge of
the flange on the other, would leave little edge distance on two sides of the
fastener. Ive never used them so maybe I'm just overly concerned??

I'd rather not use just sheet metal screws into the sheet metal if I can
avoid it.

Let me throw out this idea just for discussion,if nothing else.

What about riveting the top stabilizer fairings in place, instead of screws.
Then install an oval shaped inspection hole w/cover in the forward part of
the top fairing. Seems to me the inspection hole could be made large enough
to do visual inspections of the interior as well as being able to access all
the nuts & bolts with wrenches, sockets on extensions, etc. Then, if
necessary to gain further access, the rivets could be drilled out and the
fairing removed. I've drilled enough rivets out while building this Rebel
that I've gotten good at it.

Comments pro or con?

Thanks again,

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!








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I know I won't convince the rivnut crowd here, but it is my
strong opinion that screws work just fine in this location
because the stab rib flanges here are pretty strong. It is more
likely that you will break a screw (I have actually done that) if
your hole is too tight than strip it. Try it on a scrap piece and
you'll see. Now doing this on just .020 material is a different
story, but even there I have used sheet metal screws, but have to
be very careful to not strip the hole.

And I wouldn't rivet them, as you will be going in there quite
frequently to check everything.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
rognal@dcsol.com
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 11:43 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rebel Stabilizer Fairings


Thanks to everyone who responded to my question about
attaching the Rebel H-
stab/V-stab fairings.

I like the idea of using 'Rivnuts', but since I want
to install the fastener
into the root rib flanges, I feel drilling a .234 hole
(min required for a 6-
32 screw rivnut) between the edge of the skin on one
side, and the edge of
the flange on the other, would leave little edge
distance on two sides of the
fastener. Ive never used them so maybe I'm just overly
concerned??

I'd rather not use just sheet metal screws into the
sheet metal if I can
avoid it.

Let me throw out this idea just for discussion,if nothing else.

What about riveting the top stabilizer fairings in
place, instead of screws.
Then install an oval shaped inspection hole w/cover in
the forward part of
the top fairing. Seems to me the inspection hole could
be made large enough
to do visual inspections of the interior as well as
being able to access all
the nuts & bolts with wrenches, sockets on extensions,
etc. Then, if
necessary to gain further access, the rivets could be
drilled out and the
fairing removed. I've drilled enough rivets out while
building this Rebel
that I've gotten good at it.

Comments pro or con?

Thanks again,

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!








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My 2 cents!

Absolute > NO-NO-NO-NO < to riveted on fairings (bottom of stab is alright)
or wing/elevator tips for that matter. You WILL regret it later when you go
to do the first annual or have to disassemble (with limited tools) in the
middle of no where.... to trailer the thing home.

Sheet metal screws work pretty good if you use a #40 hole with a #8 screw in
a single thin sheet and possibly slight larger if on a skin/flange overlap.
Do some playing on scrap sheet first!! Just make sure that you put the
screws in for the first time AFTER the paint job as all those nice sharp
thread burrs will leave a nice "red stain" in the aluminum when wiping down
to shoot colour! Yes if you use a powered driver you will strip these screws
and end up with #10's in short time. Use a hand driver for the last snuging
and they last pretty good. I have about 3 or 4 #10's now after almost 9
years in the air.

As others have mentioned Rivnuts will work well >IF< you take the time to
install them properly, be gentle with them and only hand run screws into
them to avoid cross threading. A dab of oil won't hurt either so the
stainless screw doesn't go galvanic with the aluminum or steel rivnut.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <rognal@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel Stabilizer Fairings

Thanks to everyone who responded to my question about attaching the Rebel

H-

stab/V-stab fairings.

I like the idea of using 'Rivnuts', but since I want to install the

fastener

into the root rib flanges, I feel drilling a .234 hole (min required for a

6-

32 screw rivnut) between the edge of the skin on one side, and the edge of
the flange on the other, would leave little edge distance on two sides of

the

fastener. Ive never used them so maybe I'm just overly concerned??

I'd rather not use just sheet metal screws into the sheet metal if I can
avoid it.

Let me throw out this idea just for discussion,if nothing else.

What about riveting the top stabilizer fairings in place, instead of

screws.

Then install an oval shaped inspection hole w/cover in the forward part of
the top fairing. Seems to me the inspection hole could be made large

enough

to do visual inspections of the interior as well as being able to access

all

the nuts & bolts with wrenches, sockets on extensions, etc. Then, if
necessary to gain further access, the rivets could be drilled out and the
fairing removed. I've drilled enough rivets out while building this Rebel
that I've gotten good at it.

Comments pro or con?

Thanks again,

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!

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