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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Control horns
Message-Id: <E10lcT1-0006xE-00@mail4.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 13:55:20 -0400


Probably a good idea, Ken. Several of the horns have been changed over
the years - the originals <were> a bit short. Nice and responsive at low
speeds, but a bit twitchy above 100 mph !! Not hard to fly, just a bit
more demanding of attention....

The latest rudder horns really help with sensitivity, AND provide a
built-in control stop, preventing minor damage. The aileron horns also
helped lighten the control forces, as did the elevators.

Don't forget, when setting up the elevators, to give yourself AT LEAST
27 degrees of UP elevator (the book says 25). You will need a bit extra
with the heavier engines, to get a decent flare on landing ! Don't worry
if this reduces the down travel slightly - there's LOTS of that !

With the newer horns (aileron, elevator, & rudder), we can and often do
fly for hours at a time without touching the controls !! When you need it,
you get fast response with only a light touch. A real JOY on long trips !

....bobp

-----------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 09:11 AM 5/23/99 -0400, you wrote:

Regarding the light elevator feel mentioned below. Would anyone have any
comments on the elevator horn that was modified several years ago. (There

was a

bulletin on this) It increases stick movement but would reduce stick forces
(lighter stick). I was planning to upgrade mine to the current one before I

fly.

Ken


brian godden wrote:

Hi Brian,
snip
Their chief summed up the Rebel as follows:" Without question, the
finest STOL experimental I have flown. Slightly light on the elevator,
but well designed, safe, and displaying exceptional performance and
speed range. Low speed handling was perhaps the best in the catagory.
C of G range allowed private pilots a large margin for error."

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Having just replaced my rudder control horn I though I'd share some dimensions
just in case any other slow builders want to confirm that they have the newer
than 1994 parts. These are my own measurements, not official MAM numbers.

A 14-01-1994 letter gave builders the option of purchasing the following updated
parts for anyone who wanted to reduce the control sensitivity:

RU-26 with about 6.5" between the rudder cable attach holes becomes RU-26-1 with
about 7.75" between the rudder cable attach holes. The new part is also thicker.

CC-68 with about 4.5" between the elevator attach holes becomes CC-68-1 with
about 6" between the elevator cable attach holes. The other dimensions and
angles stayed the same on this part.

CC-47 with about 2.875" between the farthest push rod attach hole and the center
pivot point becomes CC-47-1. I have only seen the even newer CC-47-2 which also
has a larger bellcrank hole but it has about 2.625" between the farthest push
rod attach hole and the center pivot point. I suspect the larger bellcrank
bearing hole is simply because the smaller bearings became hard to get.

Also bulletin 061592RB (from 1992) updates CC-48 to CC-48-1. I don't have the
older
part to be sure that the following dimension will identify the newer part but
the CC-48-1 has 2.75" between the center of the bellcrank bearing hole and the
farthest push rod hole.

Now for a question if I may. Does anyone know which way to install the CC-48-1?
This part is non-symetrical and can be installed with the hole for the push rod
that goes forward to CC-47-1 either 1/4" forward or 1/4" aft of the bellcrank
bearing pivot hole. I'm thinking maybe the hole should be forward for more
clearance when the horizontal push tube is all the way aft???

Ken
119R

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Hi Ken

I will check the airplane next time I go up. I had to call the factory on
this one myself. I noticed that the alignment of the holes was not square
i.e. about at an 88 degree angle instead of 90 degrees. Your explanation
makes sense. The factory boys were not able to give me any reasoning as why
the slight difference.

I will email you as soon as I check.

Happy Building

Brian #328R

PS I still owe you a ride. Will get out your way when the weather & my
timetable is clear. B.

-----Original Message-----
From: klehman@albedo.net [mailto:klehman@albedo.net]
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2000 7:32 PM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: control horns


Having just replaced my rudder control horn I though I'd share some
dimensions
just in case any other slow builders want to confirm that they have the
newer
than 1994 parts. These are my own measurements, not official MAM numbers.

A 14-01-1994 letter gave builders the option of purchasing the following
updated
parts for anyone who wanted to reduce the control sensitivity:

RU-26 with about 6.5" between the rudder cable attach holes becomes RU-26-1
with
about 7.75" between the rudder cable attach holes. The new part is also
thicker.

CC-68 with about 4.5" between the elevator attach holes becomes CC-68-1 with
about 6" between the elevator cable attach holes. The other dimensions and
angles stayed the same on this part.

CC-47 with about 2.875" between the farthest push rod attach hole and the
center
pivot point becomes CC-47-1. I have only seen the even newer CC-47-2 which
also
has a larger bellcrank hole but it has about 2.625" between the farthest
push
rod attach hole and the center pivot point. I suspect the larger bellcrank
bearing hole is simply because the smaller bearings became hard to get.

Also bulletin 061592RB (from 1992) updates CC-48 to CC-48-1. I don't have
the
older
part to be sure that the following dimension will identify the newer part
but
the CC-48-1 has 2.75" between the center of the bellcrank bearing hole and
the
farthest push rod hole.

Now for a question if I may. Does anyone know which way to install the
CC-48-1?
This part is non-symetrical and can be installed with the hole for the push
rod
that goes forward to CC-47-1 either 1/4" forward or 1/4" aft of the
bellcrank
bearing pivot hole. I'm thinking maybe the hole should be forward for more
clearance when the horizontal push tube is all the way aft???

Ken
119R

*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*

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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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Your following message has been delivered to the 142 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 21:27:42 on 4 Mar 2000.
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Hi Ken and all,
Just to add my two cents to Kens hard work here!

When you rig after using the newer longer rudder horn, you will need to
install the rudder cable clevis's bolts upside down, to clear the stabilizer
struts. Otherwise the bolt will rub the strut and over time it would wear
through! When you put a bolt upside down, it also has to be a drilled bolt
and castle nut/cotter pinned.

For my 3rd cent, I prefer flying my original Rebel, with the old more
sensitive controls, as opposed to the newer desensitized controls! The
biggest reason being, it is more comfortable to do a full stall 3 point
landing, with full back stick. Full back stick with the desensitized
controls can get rather uncomfortable for some personal items that I would
like to retain for know!!!!!!

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: klehman@albedo.net <klehman@albedo.net>
To: Murphy Rebel <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, March 04, 2000 8:51 PM
Subject: control horns

Having just replaced my rudder control horn I though I'd share some

dimensions

just in case any other slow builders want to confirm that they have the

newer

than 1994 parts. These are my own measurements, not official MAM numbers.

A 14-01-1994 letter gave builders the option of purchasing the following

updated

parts for anyone who wanted to reduce the control sensitivity:

RU-26 with about 6.5" between the rudder cable attach holes becomes RU-26-1

with

about 7.75" between the rudder cable attach holes. The new part is also

thicker.

CC-68 with about 4.5" between the elevator attach holes becomes CC-68-1

with

about 6" between the elevator cable attach holes. The other dimensions and
angles stayed the same on this part.

CC-47 with about 2.875" between the farthest push rod attach hole and the

center

pivot point becomes CC-47-1. I have only seen the even newer CC-47-2 which

also

has a larger bellcrank hole but it has about 2.625" between the farthest

push

rod attach hole and the center pivot point. I suspect the larger bellcrank
bearing hole is simply because the smaller bearings became hard to get.

Also bulletin 061592RB (from 1992) updates CC-48 to CC-48-1. I don't have

the

older
part to be sure that the following dimension will identify the newer part

but

the CC-48-1 has 2.75" between the center of the bellcrank bearing hole and

the

farthest push rod hole.

Now for a question if I may. Does anyone know which way to install the

CC-48-1?

This part is non-symetrical and can be installed with the hole for the push

rod

that goes forward to CC-47-1 either 1/4" forward or 1/4" aft of the

bellcrank

bearing pivot hole. I'm thinking maybe the hole should be forward for more
clearance when the horizontal push tube is all the way aft???

Ken
119R

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The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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*----------------------------------------------------*

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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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Your following message has been delivered to the 145 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 19:40:54 on 5 Mar 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yep! Those are the parts I'd like to keep!!!!

I'm still trying to make the March meeting, but at this point we are working
on how to have one daughter in Ottawa and another in Toronto that weekend!
(thank god - I think - that my son got his drivers licence Thursday so I
just have to leave him some keys now!) My wife is doing her best to arrange
my freedom for the weekend!(gott'a love this gal). So far I will be
bringing: fabric samples - good and bad, 2 or 3 cases of silicon, clip nuts
in 6-32, 8-32 and 10-32 and of course all my photo albums. Rebel
construction, repairs, SR wing construction etc. etc. etc. The SR wings were
easier by the way!! It's just all the rib shims that are a pain in the ass!!
Anything else that all you builders want me to bring, let me know!!!!! If
you are looking for a particular nut plate (everything is listed on our
site), etc. send me mail and I will bring the stuff with me, for you. Of
course I will wave the $50 minimum order for the stuff I am bringing to the
meeting. Cash only please!

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: klehman@albedo.net <klehman@albedo.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Sunday, March 05, 2000 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: control horns

Wayne

Nuts! >Ken

------------------------*

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Hi Ken

If you use the desensitized elevator horn & have also moved your dash back
to accommodate the 0-320, you will have a serious problem trying to get a
full stick throw without either wacking into the dash or the other
alternative as suggested by Wayne when you go for full aft stick just when
your are trying to 'kiss it on' and your concentration is at its peak trying
to ensure your airplane is safe when you might also be thinking about your
own personal safety. (I know that is a ridiculously long sentence and my
mother was a school teacher but she does use the web).

Regards

Brian #328R


-----Original Message-----
From: klehman@albedo.net [mailto:klehman@albedo.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2000 6:58 PM
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
Subject: Re: control horns


Wayne

Nuts! Wish I'd thought of that sooner. Of course I also have the control
sticks
with the extra rearward bend in them...

Also count me in for a can of that silicone lube if you should happen to
bring a
case to the meeting next week.

Ken


"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

For my 3rd cent, I prefer flying my original Rebel, with the old more
sensitive controls, as opposed to the newer desensitized controls! The
biggest reason being, it is more comfortable to do a full stall 3 point
landing, with full back stick. Full back stick with the desensitized
controls can get rather uncomfortable for some personal items that I would
like to retain for know!!!!!!

*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*

*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*




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Brian

Unfortunately I modified the elevator horn to match the new design before I
realized that this was going to be a problem.

If I'm correct in assuming that MAM does not supply the original elevator horn
anymore, that means everyone who moves the firewall would have the same problem.
Guess it's fairly easy to shorten the newer control horn but I haven't heard of
anyone doing that.

Another possibility might be to modify the control column torque tube so that
the cable kind of wraps around a circular pulley arrangement instead of just
attaching to the two existing lugs. This would not change the pitch sensitivity
in cruise; but it would reduce the stick throw. ie the last inch of stick
movement would move the elevator more than the present two lug arrangement.
Basically I'm thinking of making a cut-out in an aluminum pulley so it will wrap
around the torque tube, and then fastening it to the existing control lugs. One
or two nicopress fittings to lock the cable to the pulley.
Don't know if it's worth the extra effort but I'm starting to think so.

Ken

Brian Cross wrote:

Hi Ken

If you use the desensitized elevator horn & have also moved your dash back
to accommodate the 0-320, you will have a serious problem trying to get a
full stick throw without either wacking into the dash or the other
alternative as suggested by Wayne when you go for full aft stick just when
your are trying to 'kiss it on' and your concentration is at its peak trying
to ensure your airplane is safe when you might also be thinking about your
own personal safety. (I know that is a ridiculously long sentence and my
mother was a school teacher but she does use the web).

Regards

Brian #328R

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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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Since you're bringing all that stuff, I hope you don't mind if I
write you in as the guest speaker !! :-) :-)

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 07:34 PM 3/5/00 -0500, you wrote:

Yep! Those are the parts I'd like to keep!!!!

I'm still trying to make the March meeting, but at this point we are working
on how to have one daughter in Ottawa and another in Toronto that weekend!
(thank god - I think - that my son got his drivers licence Thursday so I
just have to leave him some keys now!) My wife is doing her best to arrange
my freedom for the weekend!(gott'a love this gal). So far I will be
bringing: fabric samples - good and bad, 2 or 3 cases of silicon, clip nuts
in 6-32, 8-32 and 10-32 and of course all my photo albums. Rebel
construction, repairs, SR wing construction etc. etc. etc. The SR wings were
easier by the way!! It's just all the rib shims that are a pain in the ass!!
Anything else that all you builders want me to bring, let me know!!!!! If
you are looking for a particular nut plate (everything is listed on our
site), etc. send me mail and I will bring the stuff with me, for you. Of
course I will wave the $50 minimum order for the stuff I am bringing to the
meeting. Cash only please!

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: klehman@albedo.net <klehman@albedo.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Sunday, March 05, 2000 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: control horns

Wayne

Nuts! >Ken

------------------------*

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Archives located at:
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*----------------------------------------------------*

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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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