The Murphy Builders Site

Michael - The original SR 2500 seemed to have a 60 gallon tank - When I
ordered my 3500 I opted for the 80 gallon but not the 120 gallon tank - I
was up at my friend Scott Aldrich's house looking at his 3500 with the
pre-made 120 gallon tanks and he pointed out that since the 120 gallon tank
goes out to the strut bay the last 10 gallons per side comes at the expense
of a lot of extra complication since you have to box out the the strut
access area. He surmised that the constructability led MAM to decrease the
tank size on the quick builds and that 100 gallons is 1 less bay.

As far as the "More is better" concept - you can get carried away - I guess
the SR is big enough to put a restroom in the back - I have also heard rumor
of some guys adding tip tanks out in the tip bays.

There is also a lot of discussion back in the archives on tank size -

Britt - SR194




-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Bleau [mailto:bleaumichael@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:15 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: feul tank size


Hi bob

could you give some reasons on tank size selection, i would think usually
the more you could have the better. look forward to your insight or anyboby
else, thanks.

From: Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: MAM Price Increases
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:37:56 -0500

Hi Britt !

Suspect this is only a beginning - have NO inside information,
but wouldn't be surprised to see Moose prices increasing substantially
over the next 6 months or so ..... It IS a TREMENDOUS bargain at the
moment, considering the performance for the dollar ! :-)

It is possible that the 100 gal. MIGHT be a typo, and they
still meant 120, but definitely worth asking, for anyone considering
this option. Certainly not one of my choices ....
(actually, I would rather have 100 than 120, IF I wanted a larger tank.)

.....bobp

----------------------------orig.-------------------
On January 14, 2004 05:25 pm, you wrote:

Noticed the Murphy site has raised prices on the SR3500 about $2000

(slow

build)

Also note that the "Long Range Tank" is now 100 gal instead of 120 -

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I flew my Christavia from Gander NF to Edmonton AB. Had three 5 gal. cans in
the back all connected and grounded to a fawcet pump which dumped fuel into
the nose tank. Gave me 7 hrs capability but only needed to transfer fuel once
due to head winds. How much do you really need?!

Steve W.


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On 1/15/2004 9:29 PM, MURPHY-REBEL@DCSOL.COM wrote to MIKE DAVIS:

Hi Guys,

Does size matter ... just kidding!

OK, one more approach. Randy and I have the 80 gal tanks and I think for 98%
of our flying (M-14PF) that will be plenty of gas. Now what about the 2%.
Our Aerocet amphibs have huge cargo bays. And can haul some weight.
We could carry cans in the bays. Our concern ... those wings are mighty high
and those cans get might heavy and that funnel always tips.

My plans for field fueling from jerry cans is to us a T fitting at the top of
the site gauges on each wing tank with a ball valve on the extra side. A 12
volt Faucet pump and some tubing pushed on the fitting and the valve opened
will allow fuel to be pumped into the top of the tank... run the pump
backwards for a couple of seconds to clear the tubing before closing the
valve and pulling the tubing off and you're ready to go.

Mike


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IMHO 80 gal works fine for me, 4 hours plus reserve. Once I did 3.5 hours
in this plane and I won't do it again, my old body can't take it.. With 60
gal tanks, not enough reserve, the 100 gal tank too much extra weight to
haul around. The 100 and 120 would be a good option for those mounting a
turbine up front.
Even on straight floats xcountry is no big deal. A little planning lets you
find plenty of fuel. I've carried cans on straights and landed on water near
the airport. By calling ahead the local FBO has always been willing to come
down pick me and my cans up for a fuel run. It always makes for good stories
and lets face it not many float planes show up near many of these airports.
Al





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I'm with Bob on this point. I see no reason to carry more than 5 hrs of fuel on a plane. It adds weight, complication and increases possibilities of fuel-related problems. Maybe I should point out, however, I don't do flights across the Atlantic. I have a buddy with a Glasair that has over 100 gallons capacity. I asked if he was also equipping it with a boom, to do aerial refuelling. If the situation REQUIRES gas, for a trip home; bring cans in the back.

As stated: one opinion. And yes, I am familiar with IFR reserve requirements.

Bill

From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Date: 2004/01/15 Thu PM 07:55:07 CST
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: fuel tank size


Hi Michael !

There's lots of discussion in the archives about this ...
There are fuel 'caches' all over the far north, and that's my
approach to long trips. Take extra fuel in the back, then leave
it at the 'base camp', so you can go into small lakes lightly
loaded. The fuel 'cache' at base is your ticket home ...

For over 10 years, we flew our Rebel all over north america
with one or 2 gas cans in the baggage area - enough for lots of
range IF NEEDED ! Nothing worse than huge tanks that are only
half full - they collect condensation, and the large surface area
increases evaporation, not to mention that the fuel can slosh out
away from the outlets, leaving you running on air ! Lots of reasons
not to have HUGE tanks...

I did fly the SR, and the Moose across Canada, with only
70 gallon tanks (not 80 ... don't ask !) and never had a situation
where fuel capacity was exceeded by bladder capacity ! ;-) :-)

I guess the 100 gallon tanks should be large enough to
satisfy anyone, but the 80 works fine for anything I might want
to do. No point in carrying an extra 120 lb around all the time,
when I could put it in the back IF needed !

Just MHO ... :-)
.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 10:15 AM 1/15/04 -0700, you wrote:

Hi bob

could you give some reasons on tank size selection, i would think usually
the more you could have the better. look forward to your insight or anyboby
else, thanks.

From: Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: MAM Price Increases
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:37:56 -0500

Hi Britt !

Suspect this is only a beginning - have NO inside information,
but wouldn't be surprised to see Moose prices increasing substantially
over the next 6 months or so ..... It IS a TREMENDOUS bargain at the
moment, considering the performance for the dollar ! :-)

It is possible that the 100 gal. MIGHT be a typo, and they
still meant 120, but definitely worth asking, for anyone considering
this option. Certainly not one of my choices ....
(actually, I would rather have 100 than 120, IF I wanted a larger tank.)

.....bobp

----------------------------orig.-------------------
On January 14, 2004 05:25 pm, you wrote: (slow *-------------------------------------------------------------------------* *-------------------------------------------------------------------------*


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Hi Michael !

There's lots of discussion in the archives about this ...
There are fuel 'caches' all over the far north, and that's my
approach to long trips. Take extra fuel in the back, then leave
it at the 'base camp', so you can go into small lakes lightly
loaded. The fuel 'cache' at base is your ticket home ...

For over 10 years, we flew our Rebel all over north america
with one or 2 gas cans in the baggage area - enough for lots of
range IF NEEDED ! Nothing worse than huge tanks that are only
half full - they collect condensation, and the large surface area
increases evaporation, not to mention that the fuel can slosh out
away from the outlets, leaving you running on air ! Lots of reasons
not to have HUGE tanks...

I did fly the SR, and the Moose across Canada, with only
70 gallon tanks (not 80 ... don't ask !) and never had a situation
where fuel capacity was exceeded by bladder capacity ! ;-) :-)

I guess the 100 gallon tanks should be large enough to
satisfy anyone, but the 80 works fine for anything I might want
to do. No point in carrying an extra 120 lb around all the time,
when I could put it in the back IF needed !

Just MHO ... :-)
.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 10:15 AM 1/15/04 -0700, you wrote:

Hi bob

could you give some reasons on tank size selection, i would think usually
the more you could have the better. look forward to your insight or anyboby
else, thanks.

From: Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: MAM Price Increases
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:37:56 -0500

Hi Britt !

Suspect this is only a beginning - have NO inside information,
but wouldn't be surprised to see Moose prices increasing substantially
over the next 6 months or so ..... It IS a TREMENDOUS bargain at the
moment, considering the performance for the dollar ! :-)

It is possible that the 100 gal. MIGHT be a typo, and they
still meant 120, but definitely worth asking, for anyone considering
this option. Certainly not one of my choices ....
(actually, I would rather have 100 than 120, IF I wanted a larger tank.)

.....bobp

----------------------------orig.-------------------
On January 14, 2004 05:25 pm, you wrote:

Noticed the Murphy site has raised prices on the SR3500 about $2000

(slow

build)

Also note that the "Long Range Tank" is now 100 gal instead of 120 -

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The one modification we have done to our Elite that I would not repeat
is the upsize from 44 US gallons to 58. It was an aggravation working
around the strut attach for one. Also, it requires that much more fuel
(and lessened payload) to keep the tanks full to avoid condensation.
Unless there is a specific need it seems to me that 44 gallons in the
Rebel/Elite is enough.
Ralph Baker


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Hi Guys,

Does size matter ... just kidding!

OK, one more approach. Randy and I have the 80 gal tanks and I think for 98%
of our flying (M-14PF) that will be plenty of gas. Now what about the 2%.
Our Aerocet amphibs have huge cargo bays. And can haul some weight.
We could carry cans in the bays. Our concern ... those wings are mighty high
and those cans get might heavy and that funnel always tips.

Our current plan is to install removable "flat tanks" in the float bays with
plumbing which will allow fuel to be pumped from these tanks up to and into
the tops of our wing tanks.

Let's ponder the options:

1. Tanks removed when flying around town, saving a little weight.

2. Fill tanks and transfer fuel as needed to main tanks allowing
continuation of a marathon flight.

3. Fill tanks and off load at base camp until time to return. Pump fuel to
wing tanks on the way home.

4. Removable tanks allow you, if needed, to go find gas ... down the road.

OK, one problem (at least) this flat tank hopes to carry something in the
neighborhood of 15 to 25 gal. When full, to heavy for the average hee man to
lift out of the float. Sugar! This eliminates #'s 3 and 4 above. Ok so 1 & 2
would work ... or maybe you just leave the tanks in all the time and #2
works.

Well ....... what if you used multiple 5 gal cans which you could lift in
and out of the bays when full of gas and found a way to link them together
and allow for fuel transfer in flight and... and... and...

Isn't the freedom to build YOUR own airplane GREAT!

Regards,
Don Boardman
& Partner, Randy Bowers
Moose #130 M-14PF 400HP, MT-prop/beta, Aerocet 3500 amphibs, Rome, NY







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