The Murphy Builders Site

Gentlemen

I am building my Rebel here in Sao Paulo/Brazil and since I have started, I
have been following the Murphy Rebel builders site, which is helping me a lot!

So far I haven't had any major problem but now I am about to "close" the right
wing and found a measurement problem. I have consulted Brian/MAM on this, but
haven't got a clear answer.

The problem is the following:

-the total lenght of the torque tube is correct but positioning it in the wing
(flap/flaperon actuator 1/8" near main rib) the lenght of the tube that
remains outside of the solid rib (fuel tank) seems to be shorter than it
should be (there are a distance of about 1/4" between the 2 spacers that are
supposed to be riveted together).

-reading the instructions in advance, I understand that this outer part of the
torque tube will be linked to the flap mechanism, inside of the cabin, meaning
that the above measure is chritical.

- could someone give me the correct lenght of the torque tube that should be
left OUTSIDE of the solid rib?

Thanks in advance.

Jose/Rebel #700



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Hello Jose

From your description it is very close to our parts, we have just less than .25"

between the rings and about 1 -1/16" from the web of the rib to the end of the
tube on the LEFT wing. Remember on the left wing the rib flanges face toward the
cabin so the rib is essentially concave, subtract the flange width and the
thickness of the rib to get the measurement for the RIGHT wing (about 5/8" by
eye).

Hope this helps clear up the confusion!

Dave R
www.elite583.cjb.net

rebel@dcsol.com wrote:

Gentlemen

I am building my Rebel here in Sao Paulo/Brazil and since I have started, I
have been following the Murphy Rebel builders site, which is helping me a lot!

So far I haven't had any major problem but now I am about to "close" the right
wing and found a measurement problem. I have consulted Brian/MAM on this, but
haven't got a clear answer.

The problem is the following:

-the total lenght of the torque tube is correct but positioning it in the wing
(flap/flaperon actuator 1/8" near main rib) the lenght of the tube that
remains outside of the solid rib (fuel tank) seems to be shorter than it
should be (there are a distance of about 1/4" between the 2 spacers that are
supposed to be riveted together).

-reading the instructions in advance, I understand that this outer part of the
torque tube will be linked to the flap mechanism, inside of the cabin, meaning
that the above measure is chritical.

- could someone give me the correct lenght of the torque tube that should be
left OUTSIDE of the solid rib?

Thanks in advance.

Jose/Rebel #700


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David A. Ricker
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada





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Jose

Actually the outer horn on the wing torque tube connects to the cabin
torque tube outside the fuselage, between the fuselage and the inboard
solid wing rib. That area is a couple of inches wide and is covered by
fairings after the wing is installed. The horns do not move higher or
lower than the wing top or bottom skin.

I am not sure which riveted spacers you are talking about being 1/4"
apart. However you will probably want to measure your cabin torque tube
before just cutting it to whatever length is in the manual. I haven't
installed my wings yet but I think you also have the option of adjusting
the thickness of the spacers between the two horns when you bolt them
together after installing the wings.

Anyway my right wing measures 0.85 inches from the rib to the far side
of the control horn. My left wing measures 1.25 inches. However as I
said my wings have not been installed yet...

I sanded the delrin torque tube bearings quite a bit on mine to let the
torque tube move more easily. And I probably should have sanded them
even more than I did.

Ken

rebel@dcsol.com wrote:

Gentlemen

I am building my Rebel here in Sao Paulo/Brazil and since I have started, I
have been following the Murphy Rebel builders site, which is helping me a lot!

So far I haven't had any major problem but now I am about to "close" the right
wing and found a measurement problem. I have consulted Brian/MAM on this, but
haven't got a clear answer.

The problem is the following:

-the total lenght of the torque tube is correct but positioning it in the wing
(flap/flaperon actuator 1/8" near main rib) the lenght of the tube that
remains outside of the solid rib (fuel tank) seems to be shorter than it
should be (there are a distance of about 1/4" between the 2 spacers that are
supposed to be riveted together).

-reading the instructions in advance, I understand that this outer part of the
torque tube will be linked to the flap mechanism, inside of the cabin, meaning
that the above measure is chritical.

- could someone give me the correct lenght of the torque tube that should be
left OUTSIDE of the solid rib?

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Hey guys,

I recall making up 4 "spacers" in the lathe to go in between the cabin
assy and the wing assy. I did them each to an individual size, but
somewhere between 3/8" and 5/8" as I recall. We have flaps insread of
flaperons, so have two pairs of horns.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXOn Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:32:24 -0500, you wrote:

Jose

Actually the outer horn on the wing torque tube connects to the cabin
torque tube outside the fuselage, between the fuselage and the inboard
solid wing rib. That area is a couple of inches wide and is covered by
fairings after the wing is installed. The horns do not move higher or
lower than the wing top or bottom skin.

I am not sure which riveted spacers you are talking about being 1/4"
apart. However you will probably want to measure your cabin torque tube

before just cutting it to whatever length is in the manual. I haven't
installed my wings yet but I think you also have the option of adjusting

the thickness of the spacers between the two horns when you bolt them
together after installing the wings.

Anyway my right wing measures 0.85 inches from the rib to the far side
of the control horn. My left wing measures 1.25 inches. However as I
said my wings have not been installed yet...

I sanded the delrin torque tube bearings quite a bit on mine to let the
torque tube move more easily. And I probably should have sanded them
even more than I did.

Ken

rebel@dcsol.com wrote:

Gentlemen

I am building my Rebel here in Sao Paulo/Brazil and since I have

started, I

have been following the Murphy Rebel builders site, which is helping

me a lot!

So far I haven't had any major problem but now I am about to "close"

the right

wing and found a measurement problem. I have consulted Brian/MAM on

this, but

haven't got a clear answer.

The problem is the following:

-the total lenght of the torque tube is correct but positioning it in

the wing

(flap/flaperon actuator 1/8" near main rib) the lenght of the tube

that

remains outside of the solid rib (fuel tank) seems to be shorter than

it

should be (there are a distance of about 1/4" between the 2 spacers

that are

supposed to be riveted together).

-reading the instructions in advance, I understand that this outer

part of the

torque tube will be linked to the flap mechanism, inside of the cabin,

meaning

that the above measure is chritical.

- could someone give me the correct lenght of the torque tube that

should be

left OUTSIDE of the solid rib?

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Good Morning, David

Many thanks for the information.

I am now able to start closing the right wing and the tank prosealing
(scared to death!).

Regards

Jos

Thanks Ken
Problem solved!
Regards
Jos

During the wing build, does a person need to complete the torque tube completely on the root end before final assembly with the prosealing and all? They show mounting an airleron and setting degrees and then riveting the lever in place at the end of the tube. Can a person just rivet on the spacers to the tube and save the lever attachment until the wing is complete?
Mike Betti
771 Elite



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Mike,
That's how it's done. Before closing the wing with torque tube
installed and riveting the outer horn be sure the torque tube is free in
its Delrin bearings. Excessive friction there is not easily cured
later. The inner (cabin) horn is installed later after wings are
mounted and outboard rod ends adjusted to center of adjustment range and
ailerons to neutral.

You only want to put the stainless rivets in once as they are not "drill
out" friendly.
Ralph Baker
Elite 611E



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So, my completed wing will have just the spacers and plug riveted in place on the root end for now? The horn installed later after mounted on fuselage?


On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:08:32 -0500, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

Mike,
That's how it's done. Before closing the wing with torque tube
installed and riveting the outer horn be sure the torque tube is free in
its Delrin bearings. Excessive friction there is not easily cured
later. The inner (cabin) horn is installed later after wings are
mounted and outboard rod ends adjusted to center of adjustment range and
ailerons to neutral.

You only want to put the stainless rivets in once as they are not "drill
out" friendly.
Ralph Baker
Elite 611E



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Bingo
I was just looking at this and it would be nice if the manual hinted at
this instead of the vague reference to "Align all torque tubes so that
there is no binding at the pivot points". Flexing is not the same as
binding and I initially assumed there would be a 1* angle change (flex)
at each wing root. It makes more sense to put as much of that angle
change at the hanger as possible but there is no hint of that in the
manual. The hanger will be the low point of the torque tube. Of course I
find that my channels that the hanger fastens to are still an 1/8" too
low for the torque tube to clear so it might be a hint to keep those
channels as high as possible. That's probably my fault as I suspect the
channels I used might be a touch wider than the factory ones.
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

snip
Bob is correct on the flexing of horns..because what happens is the torque
tube comes thru the wing and if you continued at 2 degrees you'd need the
hanger to be ~ twice as low as standard...and it's not..so without pulling
the fairings I can tell you we'll find a whole lot of flexing going on where
the horns bolt together between wing and fuselage. We've both seen this
before on an airplane that was originally built in BC & recently sold out of
the Napanee area and is now residing at Air Muskoka.

Wayne

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I was hoping this issue would come up,
I've been scratching my head over this one for a while. I too assumed that
there would have to be some flexing of the horns where they bolt together at
the wing root. If I understand what you are saying, the tube across the
cabin roof to the right wing should follow the 1* angle from the right wing
root down to wherever it ends up? The same for the short one on the left
side also, but that's going to be a lot less noticeable. If I would have
figured that out before starting my right wing I would have tried to offset
it's torque tube 1* inside the wing.
Jesse

From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>

Bingo
I was just looking at this and it would be nice if the manual hinted at
this instead of the vague reference to "Align all torque tubes so that
there is no binding at the pivot points". Flexing is not the same as
binding and I initially assumed there would be a 1* angle change (flex)
at each wing root. It makes more sense to put as much of that angle
change at the hanger as possible but there is no hint of that in the
manual. The hanger will be the low point of the torque tube. Of course I
find that my channels that the hanger fastens to are still an 1/8" too
low for the torque tube to clear so it might be a hint to keep those
channels as high as possible. That's probably my fault as I suspect the
channels I used might be a touch wider than the factory ones.
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

snip
Bob is correct on the flexing of horns..because what happens is the

torque

tube comes thru the wing and if you continued at 2 degrees you'd need the
hanger to be ~ twice as low as standard...and it's not..so without

pulling

the fairings I can tell you we'll find a whole lot of flexing going on

where

the horns bolt together between wing and fuselage. We've both seen this
before on an airplane that was originally built in BC & recently sold out

of

the Napanee area and is now residing at Air Muskoka.

Wayne

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Jesse
Actually my take on this is that the short LEFT wing tube in the cabin
should follow the 1* dihedral straight line to the hanger or even bend
down a touch. Then the longer right tube in the cabin would have to bent
up a bit from its 1* dihedral line since the hanger is not in the center
of the fuselage.
Interesting idea of trying to offset the tube within the wing but I
think that might create more issues than it would be worth. Besides we
know the present system works ;)
Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:

I was hoping this issue would come up,
I've been scratching my head over this one for a while. I too assumed that
there would have to be some flexing of the horns where they bolt together at
the wing root. If I understand what you are saying, the tube across the
cabin roof to the right wing should follow the 1* angle from the right wing
root down to wherever it ends up? The same for the short one on the left
side also, but that's going to be a lot less noticeable. If I would have
figured that out before starting my right wing I would have tried to offset
it's torque tube 1* inside the wing.
Jesse

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Yep...like Ken states..all works fine as is Jesse. Slight misalignment from
the 1* dihedral to the cabin tubes doesn't have a lot of effect on
flex/bind. The short left one ends up almost aligned with the wing tube and
the right one gets a tad "bent" upwards to the hanger (in comparison to the
right wing tubes projected path placement at the hanger). What I always
suggest is not to do the fuselage hanger attachment until you are mounting
the wings.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: torque tube

Jesse
Actually my take on this is that the short LEFT wing tube in the cabin
should follow the 1* dihedral straight line to the hanger or even bend
down a touch. Then the longer right tube in the cabin would have to bent
up a bit from its 1* dihedral line since the hanger is not in the center
of the fuselage.
Interesting idea of trying to offset the tube within the wing but I
think that might create more issues than it would be worth. Besides we
know the present system works ;)
Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:

I was hoping this issue would come up,
I've been scratching my head over this one for a while. I too assumed

that

there would have to be some flexing of the horns where they bolt together

at

the wing root. If I understand what you are saying, the tube across the
cabin roof to the right wing should follow the 1* angle from the right

wing

root down to wherever it ends up? The same for the short one on the left
side also, but that's going to be a lot less noticeable. If I would have
figured that out before starting my right wing I would have tried to

offset

it's torque tube 1* inside the wing.
Jesse

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Would it be reasonable to have a separate hanger for each tube so they both
can be aligned perfectly with their respective wing torque tubes? This would
cause the ends to be at different places in the cabin, but couldn't that be
compensated for with the pushrods? I know... it works fine the way it is!

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: torque tube
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:33:20 -0400

Yep...like Ken states..all works fine as is Jesse. Slight misalignment from
the 1* dihedral to the cabin tubes doesn't have a lot of effect on
flex/bind. The short left one ends up almost aligned with the wing tube and
the right one gets a tad "bent" upwards to the hanger (in comparison to the
right wing tubes projected path placement at the hanger). What I always
suggest is not to do the fuselage hanger attachment until you are mounting
the wings.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: torque tube

Jesse
Actually my take on this is that the short LEFT wing tube in the cabin
should follow the 1* dihedral straight line to the hanger or even bend
down a touch. Then the longer right tube in the cabin would have to bent
up a bit from its 1* dihedral line since the hanger is not in the center
of the fuselage.
Interesting idea of trying to offset the tube within the wing but I
think that might create more issues than it would be worth. Besides we
know the present system works ;)
Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:

I was hoping this issue would come up,
I've been scratching my head over this one for a while. I too assumed

that

there would have to be some flexing of the horns where they bolt

together
at

the wing root. If I understand what you are saying, the tube across the
cabin roof to the right wing should follow the 1* angle from the right

wing

root down to wherever it ends up? The same for the short one on the

left

side also, but that's going to be a lot less noticeable. If I would

have

figured that out before starting my right wing I would have tried to

offset

it's torque tube 1* inside the wing.
Jesse

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Hi all
If anyone can help here it would be appreciated.I'm ready to rivet the
controll horn on the root
end of wings.I believe there is a bolt that comes from the torque tube
in the cabin and into
the center of the horn on the wing for allignment purposes.Is that
correct?I don't use a bolt
in the horn on the wing?I've searched extensively through the manual
and can't find the section
on building the torque tubes in the cabin.If someone has a newer
manual that could tell me what
section that is I'd be able to tell if it is indeed missing.
Thanks
Jason
817R



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