The Murphy Builders Site

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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: REBEL: Re: Elite Builders
Message-Id: <E0y50u2-0001eG-00@mail1.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:14:35 -0500

We can appreciate you not wanting to burden MAM with repeated questions,
BUT - this list is for the BUILDERS. Many of us have NEVER called the
factory,
or maybe not for some time ....

It doesn't hurt a bit for us to know that Bijan is doing a great job !
(and he IS !) Anything we say here will be a help to all of the folks at
MAM -
even if it is NEGATIVE ! (they will know how builders REALLY feel ;-) )

My .02 - I'm no engineer, but i would think that as long as the rod
was not actually touching the fork, and having bending force applied, it
should be ok. In practice, you will NEVER use full trim deflection ! Several
Rebels were sold as Advanced Ultralights, back when the electic trim was an
option, and everyone says it flies fine without ANY trim - forces are light,
in any case. Mike Davey built his Rebel without a trim tab - he uses a
custom spring system on the cockpit floor to load the elevator tube horns -
hardly needed it !
Of course, those are all Rebel stories, but I have a bit of Elite
time,
and it is also very well balanced ....

Enjoy !! .....bobp

---------------------------------------orig------------------------------
At 11:34 PM 2/17/98 +0000, you wrote:

Hi Folks

OK, Wray, Bob, Tim, you are right, the list is here for all to benefit
from, so away we go. (and Wray, you are a sharp one aren't you!, nope,
I wasn't trying to be "Elite" about this!! :^} )

I should say though that I was trying to be circumspect about my
questions out of respect for Murphy & Bijan (who also follow this list)
mainly because I talked to Bijan about it already.

What I wanted though, was to hear the expereince of others who are into
the Elite elevator build because I wanted to know as much as posible
about your experience before moving ahead.

OK, to the question. We are in the stage of putting the trim tab servo
rod mounts (EL-36 L&R) & servo assy in place and have run into a concern
about clearance in the throat of the fork where it attaches to the
EL-36s.

Talking to Bijan, we have established that the distance between the
pivot hole centers and the edge of the EL-36s should be .187" min.
(design dimension, .250) This applies to all three pivot holes (ie. 3
options).

Assuming that the trim tab requires and has equal travel in the up and
down direction, extreme up travel of the tab results in little or no
clearance between the back of the throat of the fork and the EL-36.

What I wanted to ask was, did other builders have similar problems and
how did you resolve it? Should the trim tab motion be biased to the down
direction?

Thanks in advance

Dave R.

PS. Since we have been lurking for most of the time, perhaps a few
words of introduction are in order:

He Mech. Engineer, she Physicist & pilot. We live in Nova Scotia,
Canada.
The plane is an Elite trigear #583 probably destined for an O-320 and
perhaps floats.
We have the rudder up to inspection completion and the stabilizer,
elevator & fin are close. About 185 hours so far and enjoying it.

Tim Carter wrote:

Agreed

----------
From: Wray Thompson[SMTP:wrayt@ibm.net]
Reply To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 3:02 PM
To: (Murphy Rebel)
Subject: Re: Elite Builders

Dave why not pose them online ...that's what the forum is for and there
are NO dump questions ..the only dumb questions are those not asked.
Others may have the same questions or concerns ...unless of course your
trying to set up an 'Elite' group. :-)
Wray Thompson Rebel 306 still pluggin away

David Ricker wrote:

Hello Folks

I would like to converse with Elite builders that have completed their
elevator portion as I have a couple of questions I would like to pose
off line if possible.

Please contact me at my E-mail address.

Thanks

Dave Ricker
Elite #583

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Subject: Re: REBEL: Re: Elite Builders
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Hi Guys, I'll contribute mine also. I have Rebel #42. I found after the
first
flight that the trim attach point needed to be adjusted. What we were
looking for
was something other than just a tab that would deflect one way and then the
other,
both not really doing anything but "trimming". What we were looking for was
1.
Level flight in the green or neutral position, the place that would allow
best rate
of climb at takeoff. #2. Best glide at max nose up, full deflection. This
is also
the airspeed that works best for my bird in the approach configuration.
Those 2
trim positions, once found allow for total enjoyment in all aspects of
flight.
Knowing that your takeoff is trimmed before flight loads exist can be
attained by
hitting the green or neutral position. Being able to go full nose up
deflection,
regardless of existing airspeed and knowing that you will hit best glide
makes
pattern work simple. It is a problem with the Rebel with the light control
pressures to over or under control if you don't have a little help. The mod
we
made was to put a taller angle attach bracket on the trim tab, enlarge the
slot
for more travel in the appropriate direction and work with it from there.
It would
be really hard for our friends at Murphy to hit the mark exactly as
everyone's
weight and balance will be different, and that is what affects trim in
flight.
Bottom line is it is real easy to adjust in the test flight mode.

Dave Bangle, Sandpoint Idaho

Bob Patterson wrote:

In practice, you will NEVER use full trim deflection ! Several
Rebels were sold as Advanced Ultralights, back when the electic trim was

an

option, and everyone says it flies fine without ANY trim - forces are

light,

in any case. Mike Davey built his Rebel without a trim tab - he uses a
custom spring system on the cockpit floor to load the elevator tube

horns -

hardly needed it !

OK, Wray, Bob, Tim, you are right, the list is here for all to benefit
from, so away we go. (and Wray, you are a sharp one aren't you!, nope,
I wasn't trying to be "Elite" about this!! :^} )

I should say though that I was trying to be circumspect about my
questions out of respect for Murphy & Bijan (who also follow this list)
mainly because I talked to Bijan about it already.

What I wanted though, was to hear the expereince of others who are into
the Elite elevator build because I wanted to know as much as posible
about your experience before moving ahead.

OK, to the question. We are in the stage of putting the trim tab servo
rod mounts (EL-36 L&R) & servo assy in place and have run into a concern
about clearance in the throat of the fork where it attaches to the
EL-36s.

Talking to Bijan, we have established that the distance between the
pivot hole centers and the edge of the EL-36s should be .187" min.
(design dimension, .250) This applies to all three pivot holes (ie. 3
options).

Assuming that the trim tab requires and has equal travel in the up and
down direction, extreme up travel of the tab results in little or no
clearance between the back of the throat of the fork and the EL-36.

What I wanted to ask was, did other builders have similar problems and
how did you resolve it? Should the trim tab motion be biased to the down
direction?

Thanks in advance

Dave R.

PS. Since we have been lurking for most of the time, perhaps a few
words of introduction are in order:

He Mech. Engineer, she Physicist & pilot. We live in Nova Scotia,
Canada.
The plane is an Elite trigear #583 probably destined for an O-320 and
perhaps floats.
We have the rudder up to inspection completion and the stabilizer,
elevator & fin are close. About 185 hours so far and enjoying it.

Tim Carter wrote:

Agreed

----------
From: Wray Thompson[SMTP:wrayt@ibm.net]
Reply To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 3:02 PM
To: (Murphy Rebel)
Subject: Re: Elite Builders

Dave why not pose them online ...that's what the forum is for and there
are NO dump questions ..the only dumb questions are those not asked.
Others may have the same questions or concerns ...unless of course

your

trying to set up an 'Elite' group. :-)
Wray Thompson Rebel 306 still pluggin away

David Ricker wrote:

their

.





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