The Murphy Builders Site

TWO inflight fires? Grant, you either live right or very wrong. Glad to
hear that you're still here to tell us about the experiences. Local photo
plane (C210) had a nose gear hydraulic hose fail, evidently on retract when
departing. Pilot became aware of the fire about 7 NM out, passing 4000'.
He elected to return to the field and pointed the nose at the runway. By
the time he got the plane on the ground, the fire had started to enter the
cabin, at his feet. Needless to say, he exited the plane REAL FAST. While
inbound, he was under the impression that it was gas that was burning, and
he temporarily shut the fuel off. When he realized that there were really
no suitable landing sites, he made the decision to take the chance of
turning the gas on again. He figured he had a chance of landing, with the
motor to get him there, as opposed to putting it down in a neighborhood.
Turns out the fire was fed by the hydraulic fluid being pumped by the gear
system that never shut down because it didn't see up-lock pressure. Moral
of the story is that, as Grant said, there are lots of things here that burn
real well and these things happen real fast, too.

Since we're on the subject, I've wondered for a long time about the
effectiveness of under-cowl extinguishing systems. Seems to me that the
volume of air going through the cowl is so large that dumping 10# of CO2 or
Halon would be futile. Am I wrong with this line of thought? CO2 is about
8 cubic ft. / pound, so we're talking about 80 cubic ft of inerting agent.
I'd guess this would go through the cowl exit in a second or two, which
can't do much. On the ground, I can see such a system being effective, but
in the air????? BTW, guys, don't even think about putting CO2 inside the
cabin. If you'd dump 10# of CO2 inside a nice snug cabin, you'll likely
never see the ground when you hit it. I understand that Halon is much
friendlier, in this respect.


Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: <BCairboat@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: Windshield hanging over firewall lip - Rebel/Elite

Walter Hello
In flight fires happen a lot more often than one might think.
I have had two, one from a cracked fuel filter on an ultralight and the

other

in a piper warrior from the cabin heat which set the carpet on fire in the
aircraft. You have no idea of what wanting to get on the ground means

until this

occurrs. What is more important fuel is not the only combustible under the
cowling. If you over heat an engine and have a catastrophic failure, that

is put

a rod through the case or just blow the casing off a pluged oil filter.

Than

you have seven or eight quarts of boiling oil to burn. Hot engine oil

burns

way better than gasoline and a glowing exhaust stack makes an excellent

igniter.

I take cowling fire seriously enough to consider installing a home-made

CO/2

dump into the cowling. Not only do you have to remove the oxygen and fuel

but

you have to cool things down below flash point as well. I am sure we have

all

seen burnt cars and trucks on the side of the road as a result of engine

fire

I know if you have driven over the connector to Kelowna in the summer

Walter

you have seen them too. Every weekend someone burns their vehicle up on

the

hill climbing out of the valley. Climbing out of a high lake on floats at

gross

weight has the same potential if not more as vehicle cooling systems are
superior to a tightly cowled aircraft.
Grant.

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Well, while we're into scary stories, read this one. This
happened to a couple of local guys in a Glastar this fall.
Luckily the oil did not catch fire, and they are still alive. I
have flown that exact route a couple of times, and can definitely
relate to what they were thinking at the time.

Walter

***********************************************************

It is with a feeling of great sadness that I pass along my tale
of the
passing of kit # 5038. There is also a feeling of awe and
wonderment that
I'm still here to tell the tale.
Glastar # 5038 C-FYIH first flew in 1997. She was built in
Sechelt, British
Columbia by two fellows named Arthur Lees, and Bob Brown. I'm
told she was
also the first Glastar flying outside the continental USA.
I purchased this lovely aircraft on Mar. 20 2000
It was tri-gear with an 0-320 150 HP.
I immediately re powered with a 160 HP 0-320 and flew for two
years in this
configuration. In 2000 we flew to Osh. and down to Fort
Lauderdale in 2001.
June 2002 saw Underwood amphib fiberglass floats, and an 0-360
installed.
What a blast, the best of both worlds. Every flight was a
learning
experience, and a new adventure.
While flying with my son-in-law from Kamloops B.C. to Pitt
Meadows B.C. on
Friday Sept. 26th., we had a catastrophic engine failure at 7000
feet while
over very hostile, mountainous country.
The only warning was when I glanced at the tack, it showed 2700
when I had
set cruise for 2450.
I quickly turned out the prop control and there was no change. I
thought
"this engine is running away." Before I could reduce power, there
was an
explosion at the front of the engine and the wind screen was
instantly
covered in oil. I had to apply down elevator quickly as she
wanted to pitch
up, and at the same time pulling mixture and power. I switched
over to
121.500 and called out the message we all know, and hope to never
have to
use "Mayday Mayday Mayday" With very little visibility, and a
fairly high
sink rate, things happen quickly. I spotted water below me and
thought I
could make the lake. It was a high alpine lake and I really
couldn't judge
the length of it, and didn't feel good about trying to make my
first dead
stick approach to water under the present circumstances and with
no forward
vis.
I passed on the lake as I also had a high sink rate. My next
decision was
the tall trees, or the small trees. I choose the tall ones. The
theory being
that one flies the plane to the point of impact of ones own
choosing. I
choose to impact tall trees as low as I could and trying to miss
them with
the fuselage. The right wing made first contact beside the
fuselage and came
off. Just before impact, I turned off the mags and master and
pulled full
flap. The plane then slewed to the right while rolling inverted,
and the
floats were taking big hits as we came through the trees. We came
to rest
inverted and both still tightly buckled by seat belt and shoulder
harness.
The left wing was still attached but the left door was gone. We
immediately
evacuated the plane, but there was no fire nor fuel leakage. The
back
injuries I wound up with were, I believe, as a result of instant
stretching
when the top of the cage hit the ground, with my lower body being
restrained
by the seat belt,the only "give" was the back muscles.The rescue
carried out
by the SAR tecks was another story in itself. Very professional
and much
appreciated.
This is one very tough airplane. The cage around the pilot makes
this an
extremely survivable plane in the unlikely event of a crash.
On checking the front of the engine, I found the front of the
upper and
lower cowling missing. The prop was gone and it appears that the
crank let
go between the case bushing and the prop flange. I had a Hartzell
84"
constant speed prop, and the engine was very smooth.
Seat belts, shoulder harnesses, portable handheld com, ELT,
matches, and
survival gear in general can make the difference between an
uncomfortable
situation, and a life threatening situation.
The maximum insurance I could get for this plane was $135,000.00
Canadian. A
lot below actual value. It's to soon to say if and when I'll get
back in the
saddle again, but my chances of getting another Glastar are
pretty slim. I
had over 1,000 hours in a Mooney, but the combination of
retractable wheels
and floats gives insurance companies sleepless nights. The engine
had 88
hours on it since "0" and I hope a check of the crankshaft by the
insurance
company is contemplated. Would be nice to know just what the hell
happened !
It's taken me a long time to type this so if I don't get back to
questions
too quickly, just give me a little time and I will eventually.
This
Glastarnet has been such an incredible forum for picking up great
information, and meeting the most interesting people. My deepest
thanks to
you all, Wes Secord

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Bill Delcambre
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 9:51 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Fire systems


TWO inflight fires? Grant, you either live right or
very wrong. Glad to
hear that you're still here to tell us about the
experiences. Local photo
plane (C210) had a nose gear hydraulic hose fail,
evidently on retract when
departing. Pilot became aware of the fire about 7 NM
out, passing 4000'.
He elected to return to the field and pointed the nose
at the runway. By
the time he got the plane on the ground, the fire had
started to enter the
cabin, at his feet. Needless to say, he exited the
plane REAL FAST. While
inbound, he was under the impression that it was gas
that was burning, and
he temporarily shut the fuel off. When he realized
that there were really
no suitable landing sites, he made the decision to
take the chance of
turning the gas on again. He figured he had a chance
of landing, with the
motor to get him there, as opposed to putting it down
in a neighborhood.
Turns out the fire was fed by the hydraulic fluid
being pumped by the gear
system that never shut down because it didn't see
up-lock pressure. Moral
of the story is that, as Grant said, there are lots of
things here that burn
real well and these things happen real fast, too.

Since we're on the subject, I've wondered for a long
time about the
effectiveness of under-cowl extinguishing systems.
Seems to me that the
volume of air going through the cowl is so large that
dumping 10# of CO2 or
Halon would be futile. Am I wrong with this line of
thought? CO2 is about
8 cubic ft. / pound, so we're talking about 80 cubic
ft of inerting agent.
I'd guess this would go through the cowl exit in a
second or two, which
can't do much. On the ground, I can see such a system
being effective, but
in the air????? BTW, guys, don't even think about
putting CO2 inside the
cabin. If you'd dump 10# of CO2 inside a nice snug
cabin, you'll likely
never see the ground when you hit it. I understand
that Halon is much
friendlier, in this respect.


Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: <BCairboat@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: Windshield hanging over firewall lip - Rebel/Elite

Walter Hello
In flight fires happen a lot more often than one might think.
I have had two, one from a cracked fuel filter on an

ultralight and the
other

in a piper warrior from the cabin heat which set the

carpet on fire in the

aircraft. You have no idea of what wanting to get on

the ground means
until this

occurrs. What is more important fuel is not the only

combustible under the

cowling. If you over heat an engine and have a

catastrophic failure, that
is put

a rod through the case or just blow the casing off a

pluged oil filter.
Than

you have seven or eight quarts of boiling oil to

burn. Hot engine oil
burns

way better than gasoline and a glowing exhaust stack

makes an excellent
igniter.

I take cowling fire seriously enough to consider

installing a home-made
CO/2

dump into the cowling. Not only do you have to

remove the oxygen and fuel
but

you have to cool things down below flash point as

well. I am sure we have
all

seen burnt cars and trucks on the side of the road

as a result of engine
fire

I know if you have driven over the connector to

Kelowna in the summer
Walter

you have seen them too. Every weekend someone burns

their vehicle up on
the

hill climbing out of the valley. Climbing out of a

high lake on floats at
gross

weight has the same potential if not more as vehicle

cooling systems are

superior to a tightly cowled aircraft.
Grant.

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OK, Wayne, you got me laughing so hard on that one, I'm having
trouble typing...

But yup, with those airbags, we could crash anywhere and still be
smiling...

You can explain it to the rest if you dare...

Walter (still ROFL)

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 5:11 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Fire systems


Lucky fellows Walter!

Maybe we should all install Air bags! )))))

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <walter.klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 7:47 PM
Subject: RE: Fire systems

Well, while we're into scary stories, read this one. This
happened to a couple of local guys in a Glastar this fall.
Luckily the oil did not catch fire, and they are

still alive. I

have flown that exact route a couple of times, and

can definitely

relate to what they were thinking at the time.

Walter

***********************************************************

It is with a feeling of great sadness that I pass

along my tale

of the
passing of kit # 5038. There is also a feeling of awe and
wonderment that
I'm still here to tell the tale.
Glastar # 5038 C-FYIH first flew in 1997. She was built in
Sechelt, British
Columbia by two fellows named Arthur Lees, and Bob Brown. I'm
told she was
also the first Glastar flying outside the continental USA.
I purchased this lovely aircraft on Mar. 20 2000
It was tri-gear with an 0-320 150 HP.
I immediately re powered with a 160 HP 0-320 and flew for two
years in this
configuration. In 2000 we flew to Osh. and down to Fort
Lauderdale in 2001.
June 2002 saw Underwood amphib fiberglass floats,

and an 0-360

installed.
What a blast, the best of both worlds. Every flight was a
learning
experience, and a new adventure.
While flying with my son-in-law from Kamloops B.C. to Pitt
Meadows B.C. on
Friday Sept. 26th., we had a catastrophic engine

failure at 7000

feet while
over very hostile, mountainous country.
The only warning was when I glanced at the tack, it

showed 2700

when I had
set cruise for 2450.
I quickly turned out the prop control and there was

no change. I

thought
"this engine is running away." Before I could reduce

power, there

was an
explosion at the front of the engine and the wind screen was
instantly
covered in oil. I had to apply down elevator quickly as she
wanted to pitch
up, and at the same time pulling mixture and power.

I switched

over to
121.500 and called out the message we all know, and

hope to never

have to
use "Mayday Mayday Mayday" With very little visibility, and a
fairly high
sink rate, things happen quickly. I spotted water

below me and

thought I
could make the lake. It was a high alpine lake and I really
couldn't judge
the length of it, and didn't feel good about trying

to make my

first dead
stick approach to water under the present

circumstances and with

no forward
vis.
I passed on the lake as I also had a high sink rate. My next
decision was
the tall trees, or the small trees. I choose the

tall ones. The

theory being
that one flies the plane to the point of impact of ones own
choosing. I
choose to impact tall trees as low as I could and

trying to miss

them with
the fuselage. The right wing made first contact beside the
fuselage and came
off. Just before impact, I turned off the mags and master and
pulled full
flap. The plane then slewed to the right while

rolling inverted,

and the
floats were taking big hits as we came through the

trees. We came

to rest
inverted and both still tightly buckled by seat belt

and shoulder

harness.
The left wing was still attached but the left door

was gone. We

immediately
evacuated the plane, but there was no fire nor fuel

leakage. The

back
injuries I wound up with were, I believe, as a

result of instant

stretching
when the top of the cage hit the ground, with my

lower body being

restrained
by the seat belt,the only "give" was the back

muscles.The rescue

carried out
by the SAR tecks was another story in itself. Very

professional

and much
appreciated.
This is one very tough airplane. The cage around the

pilot makes

this an
extremely survivable plane in the unlikely event of a crash.
On checking the front of the engine, I found the front of the
upper and
lower cowling missing. The prop was gone and it

appears that the

crank let
go between the case bushing and the prop flange. I

had a Hartzell

84"
constant speed prop, and the engine was very smooth.
Seat belts, shoulder harnesses, portable handheld com, ELT,
matches, and
survival gear in general can make the difference between an
uncomfortable
situation, and a life threatening situation.
The maximum insurance I could get for this plane was

$135,000.00

Canadian. A
lot below actual value. It's to soon to say if and

when I'll get

back in the
saddle again, but my chances of getting another Glastar are
pretty slim. I
had over 1,000 hours in a Mooney, but the combination of
retractable wheels
and floats gives insurance companies sleepless

nights. The engine

had 88
hours on it since "0" and I hope a check of the

crankshaft by the

insurance
company is contemplated. Would be nice to know just

what the hell

happened !
It's taken me a long time to type this so if I don't

get back to

questions
too quickly, just give me a little time and I will

eventually.

This
Glastarnet has been such an incredible forum for

picking up great

information, and meeting the most interesting

people. My deepest

thanks to
you all, Wes Secord

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Bill Delcambre
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 9:51 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Fire systems


TWO inflight fires? Grant, you either live right or
very wrong. Glad to
hear that you're still here to tell us about the
experiences. Local photo
plane (C210) had a nose gear hydraulic hose fail,
evidently on retract when
departing. Pilot became aware of the fire about 7 NM
out, passing 4000'.
He elected to return to the field and pointed the nose
at the runway. By
the time he got the plane on the ground, the fire had
started to enter the
cabin, at his feet. Needless to say, he exited the
plane REAL FAST. While
inbound, he was under the impression that it was gas
that was burning, and
he temporarily shut the fuel off. When he realized
that there were really
no suitable landing sites, he made the decision to
take the chance of
turning the gas on again. He figured he had a chance
of landing, with the
motor to get him there, as opposed to putting it down
in a neighborhood.
Turns out the fire was fed by the hydraulic fluid
being pumped by the gear
system that never shut down because it didn't see
up-lock pressure. Moral
of the story is that, as Grant said, there are lots of
things here that burn
real well and these things happen real fast, too.

Since we're on the subject, I've wondered for a long
time about the
effectiveness of under-cowl extinguishing systems.
Seems to me that the
volume of air going through the cowl is so large that
dumping 10# of CO2 or
Halon would be futile. Am I wrong with this line of
thought? CO2 is about
8 cubic ft. / pound, so we're talking about 80 cubic
ft of inerting agent.
I'd guess this would go through the cowl exit in a
second or two, which
can't do much. On the ground, I can see such a system
being effective, but
in the air????? BTW, guys, don't even think about
putting CO2 inside the
cabin. If you'd dump 10# of CO2 inside a nice snug
cabin, you'll likely
never see the ground when you hit it. I understand
that Halon is much
friendlier, in this respect.


Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: <BCairboat@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: Windshield hanging over firewall lip

- Rebel/Elite

might think.

ultralight and the
other carpet on fire in the the ground means
until this combustible under the catastrophic failure, that
is put pluged oil filter.
Than burn. Hot engine oil
burns makes an excellent
igniter. installing a home-made
CO/2 remove the oxygen and fuel
but well. I am sure we have
all as a result of engine
fire Kelowna in the summer
Walter their vehicle up on
the high lake on floats at
gross cooling systems are *------------------------------------------------------
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-------------------*




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Lucky fellows Walter!

Maybe we should all install Air bags! )))))

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <walter.klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 7:47 PM
Subject: RE: Fire systems

Well, while we're into scary stories, read this one. This
happened to a couple of local guys in a Glastar this fall.
Luckily the oil did not catch fire, and they are still alive. I
have flown that exact route a couple of times, and can definitely
relate to what they were thinking at the time.

Walter

***********************************************************

It is with a feeling of great sadness that I pass along my tale
of the
passing of kit # 5038. There is also a feeling of awe and
wonderment that
I'm still here to tell the tale.
Glastar # 5038 C-FYIH first flew in 1997. She was built in
Sechelt, British
Columbia by two fellows named Arthur Lees, and Bob Brown. I'm
told she was
also the first Glastar flying outside the continental USA.
I purchased this lovely aircraft on Mar. 20 2000
It was tri-gear with an 0-320 150 HP.
I immediately re powered with a 160 HP 0-320 and flew for two
years in this
configuration. In 2000 we flew to Osh. and down to Fort
Lauderdale in 2001.
June 2002 saw Underwood amphib fiberglass floats, and an 0-360
installed.
What a blast, the best of both worlds. Every flight was a
learning
experience, and a new adventure.
While flying with my son-in-law from Kamloops B.C. to Pitt
Meadows B.C. on
Friday Sept. 26th., we had a catastrophic engine failure at 7000
feet while
over very hostile, mountainous country.
The only warning was when I glanced at the tack, it showed 2700
when I had
set cruise for 2450.
I quickly turned out the prop control and there was no change. I
thought
"this engine is running away." Before I could reduce power, there
was an
explosion at the front of the engine and the wind screen was
instantly
covered in oil. I had to apply down elevator quickly as she
wanted to pitch
up, and at the same time pulling mixture and power. I switched
over to
121.500 and called out the message we all know, and hope to never
have to
use "Mayday Mayday Mayday" With very little visibility, and a
fairly high
sink rate, things happen quickly. I spotted water below me and
thought I
could make the lake. It was a high alpine lake and I really
couldn't judge
the length of it, and didn't feel good about trying to make my
first dead
stick approach to water under the present circumstances and with
no forward
vis.
I passed on the lake as I also had a high sink rate. My next
decision was
the tall trees, or the small trees. I choose the tall ones. The
theory being
that one flies the plane to the point of impact of ones own
choosing. I
choose to impact tall trees as low as I could and trying to miss
them with
the fuselage. The right wing made first contact beside the
fuselage and came
off. Just before impact, I turned off the mags and master and
pulled full
flap. The plane then slewed to the right while rolling inverted,
and the
floats were taking big hits as we came through the trees. We came
to rest
inverted and both still tightly buckled by seat belt and shoulder
harness.
The left wing was still attached but the left door was gone. We
immediately
evacuated the plane, but there was no fire nor fuel leakage. The
back
injuries I wound up with were, I believe, as a result of instant
stretching
when the top of the cage hit the ground, with my lower body being
restrained
by the seat belt,the only "give" was the back muscles.The rescue
carried out
by the SAR tecks was another story in itself. Very professional
and much
appreciated.
This is one very tough airplane. The cage around the pilot makes
this an
extremely survivable plane in the unlikely event of a crash.
On checking the front of the engine, I found the front of the
upper and
lower cowling missing. The prop was gone and it appears that the
crank let
go between the case bushing and the prop flange. I had a Hartzell
84"
constant speed prop, and the engine was very smooth.
Seat belts, shoulder harnesses, portable handheld com, ELT,
matches, and
survival gear in general can make the difference between an
uncomfortable
situation, and a life threatening situation.
The maximum insurance I could get for this plane was $135,000.00
Canadian. A
lot below actual value. It's to soon to say if and when I'll get
back in the
saddle again, but my chances of getting another Glastar are
pretty slim. I
had over 1,000 hours in a Mooney, but the combination of
retractable wheels
and floats gives insurance companies sleepless nights. The engine
had 88
hours on it since "0" and I hope a check of the crankshaft by the
insurance
company is contemplated. Would be nice to know just what the hell
happened !
It's taken me a long time to type this so if I don't get back to
questions
too quickly, just give me a little time and I will eventually.
This
Glastarnet has been such an incredible forum for picking up great
information, and meeting the most interesting people. My deepest
thanks to
you all, Wes Secord

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Bill Delcambre
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 9:51 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Fire systems


TWO inflight fires? Grant, you either live right or
very wrong. Glad to
hear that you're still here to tell us about the
experiences. Local photo
plane (C210) had a nose gear hydraulic hose fail,
evidently on retract when
departing. Pilot became aware of the fire about 7 NM
out, passing 4000'.
He elected to return to the field and pointed the nose
at the runway. By
the time he got the plane on the ground, the fire had
started to enter the
cabin, at his feet. Needless to say, he exited the
plane REAL FAST. While
inbound, he was under the impression that it was gas
that was burning, and
he temporarily shut the fuel off. When he realized
that there were really
no suitable landing sites, he made the decision to
take the chance of
turning the gas on again. He figured he had a chance
of landing, with the
motor to get him there, as opposed to putting it down
in a neighborhood.
Turns out the fire was fed by the hydraulic fluid
being pumped by the gear
system that never shut down because it didn't see
up-lock pressure. Moral
of the story is that, as Grant said, there are lots of
things here that burn
real well and these things happen real fast, too.

Since we're on the subject, I've wondered for a long
time about the
effectiveness of under-cowl extinguishing systems.
Seems to me that the
volume of air going through the cowl is so large that
dumping 10# of CO2 or
Halon would be futile. Am I wrong with this line of
thought? CO2 is about
8 cubic ft. / pound, so we're talking about 80 cubic
ft of inerting agent.
I'd guess this would go through the cowl exit in a
second or two, which
can't do much. On the ground, I can see such a system
being effective, but
in the air????? BTW, guys, don't even think about
putting CO2 inside the
cabin. If you'd dump 10# of CO2 inside a nice snug
cabin, you'll likely
never see the ground when you hit it. I understand
that Halon is much
friendlier, in this respect.


Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: <BCairboat@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: Windshield hanging over firewall lip - Rebel/Elite

Walter Hello
In flight fires happen a lot more often than one might think.
I have had two, one from a cracked fuel filter on an

ultralight and the
other

in a piper warrior from the cabin heat which set the

carpet on fire in the

aircraft. You have no idea of what wanting to get on

the ground means
until this

occurrs. What is more important fuel is not the only

combustible under the

cowling. If you over heat an engine and have a

catastrophic failure, that
is put

a rod through the case or just blow the casing off a

pluged oil filter.
Than

you have seven or eight quarts of boiling oil to

burn. Hot engine oil
burns

way better than gasoline and a glowing exhaust stack

makes an excellent
igniter.

I take cowling fire seriously enough to consider

installing a home-made
CO/2

dump into the cowling. Not only do you have to

remove the oxygen and fuel
but

you have to cool things down below flash point as

well. I am sure we have
all

seen burnt cars and trucks on the side of the road

as a result of engine
fire

I know if you have driven over the connector to

Kelowna in the summer
Walter

you have seen them too. Every weekend someone burns

their vehicle up on
the

hill climbing out of the valley. Climbing out of a

high lake on floats at
gross

weight has the same potential if not more as vehicle

cooling systems are

superior to a tightly cowled aircraft.
Grant.

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Take it that stands for Rolling on Floor Laughing !!

Guess a lot might be wondering what the private joke is, so if anyone dares
to know what's so funny just ask for a picture of the "new car air bags" and
make sure your wife or kids aren't looking over your shoulder when you view
the picture. If nudity offends you, PLEASE don't ask for the picture!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <walter.klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 8:26 PM
Subject: RE: Fire systems

OK, Wayne, you got me laughing so hard on that one, I'm having
trouble typing...

But yup, with those airbags, we could crash anywhere and still be
smiling...

You can explain it to the rest if you dare...

Walter (still ROFL)

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 5:11 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Fire systems


Lucky fellows Walter!

Maybe we should all install Air bags! )))))

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <walter.klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 7:47 PM
Subject: RE: Fire systems

Well, while we're into scary stories, read this one. This
happened to a couple of local guys in a Glastar this fall.
Luckily the oil did not catch fire, and they are

still alive. I

have flown that exact route a couple of times, and

can definitely

relate to what they were thinking at the time.

Walter

***********************************************************

It is with a feeling of great sadness that I pass

along my tale

of the
passing of kit # 5038. There is also a feeling of awe and
wonderment that
I'm still here to tell the tale.
Glastar # 5038 C-FYIH first flew in 1997. She was built in
Sechelt, British
Columbia by two fellows named Arthur Lees, and Bob Brown. I'm
told she was
also the first Glastar flying outside the continental USA.
I purchased this lovely aircraft on Mar. 20 2000
It was tri-gear with an 0-320 150 HP.
I immediately re powered with a 160 HP 0-320 and flew for two
years in this
configuration. In 2000 we flew to Osh. and down to Fort
Lauderdale in 2001.
June 2002 saw Underwood amphib fiberglass floats,

and an 0-360

installed.
What a blast, the best of both worlds. Every flight was a
learning
experience, and a new adventure.
While flying with my son-in-law from Kamloops B.C. to Pitt
Meadows B.C. on
Friday Sept. 26th., we had a catastrophic engine

failure at 7000

feet while
over very hostile, mountainous country.
The only warning was when I glanced at the tack, it

showed 2700

when I had
set cruise for 2450.
I quickly turned out the prop control and there was

no change. I

thought
"this engine is running away." Before I could reduce

power, there

was an
explosion at the front of the engine and the wind screen was
instantly
covered in oil. I had to apply down elevator quickly as she
wanted to pitch
up, and at the same time pulling mixture and power.

I switched

over to
121.500 and called out the message we all know, and

hope to never

have to
use "Mayday Mayday Mayday" With very little visibility, and a
fairly high
sink rate, things happen quickly. I spotted water

below me and

thought I
could make the lake. It was a high alpine lake and I really
couldn't judge
the length of it, and didn't feel good about trying

to make my

first dead
stick approach to water under the present

circumstances and with

no forward
vis.
I passed on the lake as I also had a high sink rate. My next
decision was
the tall trees, or the small trees. I choose the

tall ones. The

theory being
that one flies the plane to the point of impact of ones own
choosing. I
choose to impact tall trees as low as I could and

trying to miss

them with
the fuselage. The right wing made first contact beside the
fuselage and came
off. Just before impact, I turned off the mags and master and
pulled full
flap. The plane then slewed to the right while

rolling inverted,

and the
floats were taking big hits as we came through the

trees. We came

to rest
inverted and both still tightly buckled by seat belt

and shoulder

harness.
The left wing was still attached but the left door

was gone. We

immediately
evacuated the plane, but there was no fire nor fuel

leakage. The

back
injuries I wound up with were, I believe, as a

result of instant

stretching
when the top of the cage hit the ground, with my

lower body being

restrained
by the seat belt,the only "give" was the back

muscles.The rescue

carried out
by the SAR tecks was another story in itself. Very

professional

and much
appreciated.
This is one very tough airplane. The cage around the

pilot makes

this an
extremely survivable plane in the unlikely event of a crash.
On checking the front of the engine, I found the front of the
upper and
lower cowling missing. The prop was gone and it

appears that the

crank let
go between the case bushing and the prop flange. I

had a Hartzell

84"
constant speed prop, and the engine was very smooth.
Seat belts, shoulder harnesses, portable handheld com, ELT,
matches, and
survival gear in general can make the difference between an
uncomfortable
situation, and a life threatening situation.
The maximum insurance I could get for this plane was

$135,000.00

Canadian. A
lot below actual value. It's to soon to say if and

when I'll get

back in the
saddle again, but my chances of getting another Glastar are
pretty slim. I
had over 1,000 hours in a Mooney, but the combination of
retractable wheels
and floats gives insurance companies sleepless

nights. The engine

had 88
hours on it since "0" and I hope a check of the

crankshaft by the

insurance
company is contemplated. Would be nice to know just

what the hell

happened !
It's taken me a long time to type this so if I don't

get back to

questions
too quickly, just give me a little time and I will

eventually.

This
Glastarnet has been such an incredible forum for

picking up great

information, and meeting the most interesting

people. My deepest

thanks to
you all, Wes Secord

- Rebel/Elite

might think.

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Let her rip, Wayne..thats a yes.

Dave Stroud, Ottawa, Canada
Christavia Mk 1 C-FDWS
Fairchild 51, early construction


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: Fire systems

Take it that stands for Rolling on Floor Laughing !!

Guess a lot might be wondering what the private joke is, so if anyone dares
to know what's so funny just ask for a picture of the "new car air bags" and
make sure your wife or kids aren't looking over your shoulder when you view
the picture. If nudity offends you, PLEASE don't ask for the picture!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <walter.klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 8:26 PM
Subject: RE: Fire systems

OK, Wayne, you got me laughing so hard on that one, I'm having
trouble typing...

But yup, with those airbags, we could crash anywhere and still be
smiling...

You can explain it to the rest if you dare...

Walter (still ROFL)

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 5:11 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Fire systems


Lucky fellows Walter!

Maybe we should all install Air bags! )))))

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <walter.klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 7:47 PM
Subject: RE: Fire systems

still alive. I can definitely along my tale and an 0-360 failure at 7000 showed 2700 no change. I power, there I switched hope to never below me and to make my circumstances and with tall ones. The trying to miss rolling inverted, trees. We came and shoulder was gone. We leakage. The result of instant lower body being muscles.The rescue professional pilot makes appears that the had a Hartzell $135,000.00 when I'll get nights. The engine crankshaft by the what the hell get back to eventually. picking up great people. My deepest - Rebel/Elite might think. *------------------------------------------------------
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