The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm**

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Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:34:34 +0400
From: "Warren T. Montgomery" <monty@emirates.net.ae>
Subject: Re: Rebel fun
To: Murphy Rebel <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
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I instructed on the under powered Beach Musketeer (Sundowner) in the
military.
(my playback for flying Electronic Warfare Falcon-20s)
180hp, O-360. We did everything but snap rolls.
The trick is to get the speed up. The smoothest way was to initially do a
lazy
eight or stall turn followed by a slow and smooth recovery (dive) to about
120kts
of airspeed. With that and the 4G we were limited to, we could do all the
basic
aerobatics manovers. A plane won't care what attitude it's in as long as you
have
enough speed to generate lift (may need a touch of flap over the top of a
loop)
and you respect the G margin. Keep lots of altitude under you though for
recovery
from an unusual attitude. Of course we'd never do this in a Rebel ;-). I
caution
all not to do any aerobatics without first having instruction in same. May
save an
engine overspeed or a snapped spar!!!

BTW we used to do a closed pattern for fun in the Falcon starting 250kts,
pitching
up to 30 degress and rolling to 90 degress of bank. Would hit downwind at
1500'
and 200kts everytime. Although this has nothing to do with a Rebel the point
is
with caution you can do a lot with any airframe.

Warren T. Montgomery
SR#029
<monty@emirates.net.ae>
Dubai, United Arab Emirates

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm**

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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: Rebel fun
Message-Id: <E10SBEy-0002ep-00@mail4.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:00:29 -0500

A little flap at the top of the loop --- I knew that dropping flap
was a good way to tighten your turn in a dogfight, but never thought of
it at the top of a loop !! I think one MIGHT be a little too busy !! :-)

Thanks for the interesting info - anything to do with flying is good !
:-)

......bobp
--------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 12:34 PM 3/29/99 +0400, you wrote:

I instructed on the under powered Beach Musketeer (Sundowner) in the

military.

(my playback for flying Electronic Warfare Falcon-20s)
180hp, O-360. We did everything but snap rolls.
The trick is to get the speed up. The smoothest way was to initially do a

lazy

eight or stall turn followed by a slow and smooth recovery (dive) to about

120kts

of airspeed. With that and the 4G we were limited to, we could do all the

basic

aerobatics manovers. A plane won't care what attitude it's in as long as

you have

enough speed to generate lift (may need a touch of flap over the top of a

loop)

and you respect the G margin. Keep lots of altitude under you though for

recovery

from an unusual attitude. Of course we'd never do this in a Rebel ;-). I

caution

all not to do any aerobatics without first having instruction in same. May

save an

engine overspeed or a snapped spar!!!

BTW we used to do a closed pattern for fun in the Falcon starting 250kts,

pitching

up to 30 degress and rolling to 90 degress of bank. Would hit downwind at

1500'

and 200kts everytime. Although this has nothing to do with a Rebel the

point is

with caution you can do a lot with any airframe.

Warren T. Montgomery
SR#029
<monty@emirates.net.ae>
Dubai, United Arab Emirates

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm**

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Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:21:17 -0700
Reply-To: <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
From: "Tim Carter" <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
To: "'Murphy Rebel'" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: Rebel fun
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:14:07 -0700
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OK...

Now this is something that I have wondered about...and this message stream
has my curiosity up...

I talked to Daryl Murphy at OSH about two years ago. I told him that I'd
seen the promo video with Robin Dyck doing loops and rolls, and that I was
glad to see that the Rebel could do some basic acro. His response was,
"That was probably not a good idea"

(for Robin to do acro, do you think?)

Wonder what he meant?

Now. Because of this, I started thinking, wow...maybe I should have gotten
an RV, but I really never actually felt that way. I was disappointed that I
could not do basic acro in the Rebel.

If you guys, especially you Alister who uses a Pitts, are doing a bit of
acro, maybe someone can respond to this message, and perhaps supply some
entry speeds for a loop, aileron roll, immelman, and hammerhead?

Tim
#438

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 7:00 PM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: Rebel fun

A little flap at the top of the loop --- I knew that dropping flap
was a good way to tighten your turn in a dogfight, but never thought of
it at the top of a loop !! I think one MIGHT be a little too busy !! :-)

Thanks for the interesting info - anything to do with flying is good !
:-)

......bobp
--------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 12:34 PM 3/29/99 +0400, you wrote:

I instructed on the under powered Beach Musketeer (Sundowner) in the

military.

(my playback for flying Electronic Warfare Falcon-20s)
180hp, O-360. We did everything but snap rolls.
The trick is to get the speed up. The smoothest way was to initially do a

lazy

eight or stall turn followed by a slow and smooth recovery (dive) to about

120kts

of airspeed. With that and the 4G we were limited to, we could do all the

basic

aerobatics manovers. A plane won't care what attitude it's in as long as

you have

enough speed to generate lift (may need a touch of flap over the top of a

loop)

and you respect the G margin. Keep lots of altitude under you though for

recovery

from an unusual attitude. Of course we'd never do this in a Rebel ;-). I

caution

all not to do any aerobatics without first having instruction in same. May

save an

engine overspeed or a snapped spar!!!

BTW we used to do a closed pattern for fun in the Falcon starting 250kts,

pitching

up to 30 degress and rolling to 90 degress of bank. Would hit downwind at

1500'

and 200kts everytime. Although this has nothing to do with a Rebel the

point is

with caution you can do a lot with any airframe.

Warren T. Montgomery
SR#029
<monty@emirates.net.ae>
Dubai, United Arab Emirates

.

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm**

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Reply-To: <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
From: "Tim Carter" <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
To: "'Murphy Rebel'" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: Rebel fun
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:14:07 -0700
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OK...

Now this is something that I have wondered about...and this message stream
has my curiosity up...

I talked to Daryl Murphy at OSH about two years ago. I told him that I'd
seen the promo video with Robin Dyck doing loops and rolls, and that I was
glad to see that the Rebel could do some basic acro. His response was,
"That was probably not a good idea"

(for Robin to do acro, do you think?)

Wonder what he meant?

Now. Because of this, I started thinking, wow...maybe I should have gotten
an RV, but I really never actually felt that way. I was disappointed that I
could not do basic acro in the Rebel.

If you guys, especially you Alister who uses a Pitts, are doing a bit of
acro, maybe someone can respond to this message, and perhaps supply some
entry speeds for a loop, aileron roll, immelman, and hammerhead?

Tim
#438

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 7:00 PM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: Rebel fun

A little flap at the top of the loop --- I knew that dropping flap
was a good way to tighten your turn in a dogfight, but never thought of
it at the top of a loop !! I think one MIGHT be a little too busy !! :-)

Thanks for the interesting info - anything to do with flying is good !
:-)

......bobp
--------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 12:34 PM 3/29/99 +0400, you wrote:

I instructed on the under powered Beach Musketeer (Sundowner) in the

military.

(my playback for flying Electronic Warfare Falcon-20s)
180hp, O-360. We did everything but snap rolls.
The trick is to get the speed up. The smoothest way was to initially do a

lazy

eight or stall turn followed by a slow and smooth recovery (dive) to about

120kts

of airspeed. With that and the 4G we were limited to, we could do all the

basic

aerobatics manovers. A plane won't care what attitude it's in as long as

you have

enough speed to generate lift (may need a touch of flap over the top of a

loop)

and you respect the G margin. Keep lots of altitude under you though for

recovery

from an unusual attitude. Of course we'd never do this in a Rebel ;-). I

caution

all not to do any aerobatics without first having instruction in same. May

save an

engine overspeed or a snapped spar!!!

BTW we used to do a closed pattern for fun in the Falcon starting 250kts,

pitching

up to 30 degress and rolling to 90 degress of bank. Would hit downwind at

1500'

and 200kts everytime. Although this has nothing to do with a Rebel the

point is

with caution you can do a lot with any airframe.

Warren T. Montgomery
SR#029
<monty@emirates.net.ae>
Dubai, United Arab Emirates

.

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm**

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From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Rebel Fun
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:10:31 +1200
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Ummm, I think you have to be a little careful thinking about aerobating =
aircraft that are not cleared for aerobatics, there normally is a =
reason!

I have seen this happen before, someone manages to convince themselves =
that their machine is OK for aero's ( even if the designer does not) and =
gets right into it, signs of stress usually occur sooner or later.
=20
Someone's idea of areo's can be quite different to someone else's, I am =
quite sure an experienced aerobatic pilot can do basic aero's in a Rebel =
very safely, keeping with in the design limits, but a less experienced =
pilot or even one with no experience could end up stressing the aircraft =
quite badly. For example, just doing a simple barrel roll, if the =
aircraft is not held high enough initially it may blow badly out the =
bottom of the maneuver building up speed while still pulling G and =
rolling at the same time. It's not necessarily straight G forces that =
can do damage but a combination of G and roll which puts tortional loads =
on the aircraft.The Rebel has quite light skin thickness and it may pay =
to be careful!=20

If I want to go upside down I think I MIGHT jump in the Pitts!=20

From: Alister Yeoman

email: yeoman@voyager.co.nz

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE841C.AD6FF960
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Ummm, I think you have to be a =
little careful=20
thinking about aerobating aircraft that are not cleared for aerobatics, =
there=20
normally is a reason!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I have seen this happen before, =
someone manages=20
to convince themselves that their machine is OK for aero's ( even if the =

designer does not) and gets right into it, signs of stress usually occur =
sooner=20
or later.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>  </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Someone's idea of areo's can be =
quite different=20
to someone else's, I am quite sure an experienced aerobatic pilot can do =
basic=20
aero's in a Rebel very safely, keeping with in the design limits, but a =
less=20
experienced pilot or even one with no experience could end up stressing =
the=20
aircraft quite badly. For example, just doing a simple barrel roll, if =
the=20
aircraft is not held high enough initially it may blow badly out the =
bottom of=20
the maneuver building up speed while still pulling G and rolling at the =
same=20
time. It's not necessarily straight G forces that can do damage but a=20
combination of G and roll which puts tortional loads on the aircraft.The =
Rebel=20
has quite light skin thickness and it may pay to be careful! =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>If I want to go upside down I think =
I MIGHT jump=20
in the Pitts! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>From: Alister Yeoman</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>email: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:yeoman@voyager.co.n">yeoman@voyager.co.n</A>z</FONT></DIV>=
</BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE841C.AD6FF960--

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:19 pm**

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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: Rebel Fun
Message-Id: <E10ZMLt-0005ev-00@mail4.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:17:18 -0400

I agree COMPLETELY !!!

Anyone even THINKING about aerobatics in ANYTHING should have a proper
training course with someone who is qualified to teach them, in a suitable
aircraft ! Trying to teach yourself can spoil your whole afternoon !!

....bobp

------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------------
--
At 01:10 PM 4/11/99 +1200, you wrote:

Ummm, I think you have to be a little careful thinking about aerobating

aircraft that are not cleared for aerobatics, there normally is a reason!

I have seen this happen before, someone manages to convince themselves that

their machine is OK for aero's ( even if the designer does not) and gets
right into it, signs of stress usually occur sooner or later.

Someone's idea of areo's can be quite different to someone else's, I am

quite sure an experienced aerobatic pilot can do basic aero's in a Rebel
very safely, keeping with in the design limits, but a less experienced pilot
or even one with no experience could end up stressing the aircraft quite
badly. For example, just doing a simple barrel roll, if the aircraft is not
held high enough initially it may blow badly out the bottom of the maneuver
building up speed while still pulling G and rolling at the same time. It's
not necessarily straight G forces that can do damage but a combination of G
and roll which puts tortional loads on the aircraft.The Rebel has quite
light skin thickness and it may pay to be careful!

If I want to go upside down I think I MIGHT jump in the Pitts!

From: Alister Yeoman

email: yeoman@voyager.co.nz
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content='"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=GENERATOR>
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<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Ummm, I think you have to be a little

careful

thinking about aerobating aircraft that are not cleared for aerobatics,

there

normally is a reason!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>I have seen this happen before, someone

manages

to convince themselves that their machine is OK for aero's ( even if the
designer does not) and gets right into it, signs of stress usually occur

sooner

or later.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>  </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Someone's idea of areo's can be quite

different

to someone else's, I am quite sure an experienced aerobatic pilot can do

basic

aero's in a Rebel very safely, keeping with in the design limits, but a

less

experienced pilot or even one with no experience could end up stressing the
aircraft quite badly. For example, just doing a simple barrel roll, if the
aircraft is not held high enough initially it may blow badly out the bottom

of

the maneuver building up speed while still pulling G and rolling at the

same

time. It's not necessarily straight G forces that can do damage but a
combination of G and roll which puts tortional loads on the aircraft.The

Rebel

has quite light skin thickness and it may pay to be careful! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>If I want to go upside down I think I MIGHT

jump

in the Pitts! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>From: Alister Yeoman</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>email: <A
href="mailto:yeoman@voyager.co.n">yeoman@voyager.co.n</A>z</FONT></DIV></BO

DY></HTML>