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Rebel fun

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm
by Mike Davis
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Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:34:34 +0400
From: "Warren T. Montgomery" <monty@emirates.net.ae>
Subject: Re: Rebel fun
To: Murphy Rebel <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
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References: <05010053211951@dcsol.com>

I instructed on the under powered Beach Musketeer (Sundowner) in the
military.
(my playback for flying Electronic Warfare Falcon-20s)
180hp, O-360. We did everything but snap rolls.
The trick is to get the speed up. The smoothest way was to initially do a
lazy
eight or stall turn followed by a slow and smooth recovery (dive) to about
120kts
of airspeed. With that and the 4G we were limited to, we could do all the
basic
aerobatics manovers. A plane won't care what attitude it's in as long as you
have
enough speed to generate lift (may need a touch of flap over the top of a
loop)
and you respect the G margin. Keep lots of altitude under you though for
recovery
from an unusual attitude. Of course we'd never do this in a Rebel ;-). I
caution
all not to do any aerobatics without first having instruction in same. May
save an
engine overspeed or a snapped spar!!!

BTW we used to do a closed pattern for fun in the Falcon starting 250kts,
pitching
up to 30 degress and rolling to 90 degress of bank. Would hit downwind at
1500'
and 200kts everytime. Although this has nothing to do with a Rebel the point
is
with caution you can do a lot with any airframe.


Warren T. Montgomery
SR#029
<monty@emirates.net.ae>
Dubai, United Arab Emirates





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Rebel fun

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm
by Mike Davis
Received: from [137.186.227.102] (helo=ms02-102.tor.istar.ca)
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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: Rebel fun
Message-Id: <E10SBEy-0002ep-00@mail4.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:00:29 -0500


A little flap at the top of the loop --- I knew that dropping flap
was a good way to tighten your turn in a dogfight, but never thought of
it at the top of a loop !! I think one MIGHT be a little too busy !! :-)

Thanks for the interesting info - anything to do with flying is good !
:-)

......bobp
--------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 12:34 PM 3/29/99 +0400, you wrote:
I instructed on the under powered Beach Musketeer (Sundowner) in the
military.
(my playback for flying Electronic Warfare Falcon-20s)
180hp, O-360. We did everything but snap rolls.
The trick is to get the speed up. The smoothest way was to initially do a
lazy
eight or stall turn followed by a slow and smooth recovery (dive) to about
120kts
of airspeed. With that and the 4G we were limited to, we could do all the
basic
aerobatics manovers. A plane won't care what attitude it's in as long as
you have
enough speed to generate lift (may need a touch of flap over the top of a
loop)
and you respect the G margin. Keep lots of altitude under you though for
recovery
from an unusual attitude. Of course we'd never do this in a Rebel ;-). I
caution
all not to do any aerobatics without first having instruction in same. May
save an
engine overspeed or a snapped spar!!!

BTW we used to do a closed pattern for fun in the Falcon starting 250kts,
pitching
up to 30 degress and rolling to 90 degress of bank. Would hit downwind at
1500'
and 200kts everytime. Although this has nothing to do with a Rebel the
point is
with caution you can do a lot with any airframe.


Warren T. Montgomery
SR#029
<monty@emirates.net.ae>
Dubai, United Arab Emirates





Rebel fun

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm
by Mike Davis
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Reply-To: <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
From: "Tim Carter" <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
To: "'Murphy Rebel'" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: Rebel fun
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:14:07 -0700
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OK...

Now this is something that I have wondered about...and this message stream
has my curiosity up...

I talked to Daryl Murphy at OSH about two years ago. I told him that I'd
seen the promo video with Robin Dyck doing loops and rolls, and that I was
glad to see that the Rebel could do some basic acro. His response was,
"That was probably not a good idea"

(for Robin to do acro, do you think?)

Wonder what he meant?

Now. Because of this, I started thinking, wow...maybe I should have gotten
an RV, but I really never actually felt that way. I was disappointed that I
could not do basic acro in the Rebel.

If you guys, especially you Alister who uses a Pitts, are doing a bit of
acro, maybe someone can respond to this message, and perhaps supply some
entry speeds for a loop, aileron roll, immelman, and hammerhead?

Tim
#438

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 7:00 PM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: Rebel fun



A little flap at the top of the loop --- I knew that dropping flap
was a good way to tighten your turn in a dogfight, but never thought of
it at the top of a loop !! I think one MIGHT be a little too busy !! :-)

Thanks for the interesting info - anything to do with flying is good !
:-)

......bobp
--------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 12:34 PM 3/29/99 +0400, you wrote:
I instructed on the under powered Beach Musketeer (Sundowner) in the
military.
(my playback for flying Electronic Warfare Falcon-20s)
180hp, O-360. We did everything but snap rolls.
The trick is to get the speed up. The smoothest way was to initially do a
lazy
eight or stall turn followed by a slow and smooth recovery (dive) to about
120kts
of airspeed. With that and the 4G we were limited to, we could do all the
basic
aerobatics manovers. A plane won't care what attitude it's in as long as
you have
enough speed to generate lift (may need a touch of flap over the top of a
loop)
and you respect the G margin. Keep lots of altitude under you though for
recovery
from an unusual attitude. Of course we'd never do this in a Rebel ;-). I
caution
all not to do any aerobatics without first having instruction in same. May
save an
engine overspeed or a snapped spar!!!

BTW we used to do a closed pattern for fun in the Falcon starting 250kts,
pitching
up to 30 degress and rolling to 90 degress of bank. Would hit downwind at
1500'
and 200kts everytime. Although this has nothing to do with a Rebel the
point is
with caution you can do a lot with any airframe.


Warren T. Montgomery
SR#029
<monty@emirates.net.ae>
Dubai, United Arab Emirates





.





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Rebel fun

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm
by Mike Davis
Received: from tim-toshiba - 206.40.8.15 by email.msn.com with Microsoft
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Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:21:17 -0700
Reply-To: <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
From: "Tim Carter" <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
To: "'Murphy Rebel'" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: Rebel fun
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:14:07 -0700
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In-Reply-To: <E10SBEy-0002ep-00@mail4.toronto.istar.net>
Return-Path: tlcarter@email.msn.com

OK...

Now this is something that I have wondered about...and this message stream
has my curiosity up...

I talked to Daryl Murphy at OSH about two years ago. I told him that I'd
seen the promo video with Robin Dyck doing loops and rolls, and that I was
glad to see that the Rebel could do some basic acro. His response was,
"That was probably not a good idea"

(for Robin to do acro, do you think?)

Wonder what he meant?

Now. Because of this, I started thinking, wow...maybe I should have gotten
an RV, but I really never actually felt that way. I was disappointed that I
could not do basic acro in the Rebel.

If you guys, especially you Alister who uses a Pitts, are doing a bit of
acro, maybe someone can respond to this message, and perhaps supply some
entry speeds for a loop, aileron roll, immelman, and hammerhead?

Tim
#438

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 7:00 PM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: Rebel fun



A little flap at the top of the loop --- I knew that dropping flap
was a good way to tighten your turn in a dogfight, but never thought of
it at the top of a loop !! I think one MIGHT be a little too busy !! :-)

Thanks for the interesting info - anything to do with flying is good !
:-)

......bobp
--------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 12:34 PM 3/29/99 +0400, you wrote:
I instructed on the under powered Beach Musketeer (Sundowner) in the
military.
(my playback for flying Electronic Warfare Falcon-20s)
180hp, O-360. We did everything but snap rolls.
The trick is to get the speed up. The smoothest way was to initially do a
lazy
eight or stall turn followed by a slow and smooth recovery (dive) to about
120kts
of airspeed. With that and the 4G we were limited to, we could do all the
basic
aerobatics manovers. A plane won't care what attitude it's in as long as
you have
enough speed to generate lift (may need a touch of flap over the top of a
loop)
and you respect the G margin. Keep lots of altitude under you though for
recovery
from an unusual attitude. Of course we'd never do this in a Rebel ;-). I
caution
all not to do any aerobatics without first having instruction in same. May
save an
engine overspeed or a snapped spar!!!

BTW we used to do a closed pattern for fun in the Falcon starting 250kts,
pitching
up to 30 degress and rolling to 90 degress of bank. Would hit downwind at
1500'
and 200kts everytime. Although this has nothing to do with a Rebel the
point is
with caution you can do a lot with any airframe.


Warren T. Montgomery
SR#029
<monty@emirates.net.ae>
Dubai, United Arab Emirates





.





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Rebel Fun

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm
by Mike Davis
Received: from dialup.voyager.co.nz (ts1p09.net.ashburton.voyager.co.nz
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From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Rebel Fun
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:10:31 +1200
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Ummm, I think you have to be a little careful thinking about aerobating =
aircraft that are not cleared for aerobatics, there normally is a =
reason!

I have seen this happen before, someone manages to convince themselves =
that their machine is OK for aero's ( even if the designer does not) and =
gets right into it, signs of stress usually occur sooner or later.
=20
Someone's idea of areo's can be quite different to someone else's, I am =
quite sure an experienced aerobatic pilot can do basic aero's in a Rebel =
very safely, keeping with in the design limits, but a less experienced =
pilot or even one with no experience could end up stressing the aircraft =
quite badly. For example, just doing a simple barrel roll, if the =
aircraft is not held high enough initially it may blow badly out the =
bottom of the maneuver building up speed while still pulling G and =
rolling at the same time. It's not necessarily straight G forces that =
can do damage but a combination of G and roll which puts tortional loads =
on the aircraft.The Rebel has quite light skin thickness and it may pay =
to be careful!=20

If I want to go upside down I think I MIGHT jump in the Pitts!=20

From: Alister Yeoman

email: yeoman@voyager.co.nz

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE841C.AD6FF960
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Ummm, I think you have to be a =
little careful=20
thinking about aerobating aircraft that are not cleared for aerobatics, =
there=20
normally is a reason!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I have seen this happen before, =
someone manages=20
to convince themselves that their machine is OK for aero's ( even if the =

designer does not) and gets right into it, signs of stress usually occur =
sooner=20
or later.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Someone's idea of areo's can be =
quite different=20
to someone else's, I am quite sure an experienced aerobatic pilot can do =
basic=20
aero's in a Rebel very safely, keeping with in the design limits, but a =
less=20
experienced pilot or even one with no experience could end up stressing =
the=20
aircraft quite badly. For example, just doing a simple barrel roll, if =
the=20
aircraft is not held high enough initially it may blow badly out the =
bottom of=20
the maneuver building up speed while still pulling G and rolling at the =
same=20
time. It's not necessarily straight G forces that can do damage but a=20
combination of G and roll which puts tortional loads on the aircraft.The =
Rebel=20
has quite light skin thickness and it may pay to be careful! =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>If I want to go upside down I think =
I MIGHT jump=20
in the Pitts! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>From: Alister Yeoman</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>email: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:yeoman@voyager.co.n">yeoman@voyager.co.n</A>z</FONT></DIV>=
</BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE841C.AD6FF960--

Rebel Fun

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:19 pm
by Mike Davis
Received: from [137.186.224.18] (helo=ms01-18.tor.istar.ca)
by mail4.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 1.92 #2)
for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
id 10ZMLt-0005ev-00; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:17:18 -0400
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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: Rebel Fun
Message-Id: <E10ZMLt-0005ev-00@mail4.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:17:18 -0400


I agree COMPLETELY !!!

Anyone even THINKING about aerobatics in ANYTHING should have a proper
training course with someone who is qualified to teach them, in a suitable
aircraft ! Trying to teach yourself can spoil your whole afternoon !!

....bobp

------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------------
--
At 01:10 PM 4/11/99 +1200, you wrote:
Ummm, I think you have to be a little careful thinking about aerobating
aircraft that are not cleared for aerobatics, there normally is a reason!
I have seen this happen before, someone manages to convince themselves that
their machine is OK for aero's ( even if the designer does not) and gets
right into it, signs of stress usually occur sooner or later.
Someone's idea of areo's can be quite different to someone else's, I am
quite sure an experienced aerobatic pilot can do basic aero's in a Rebel
very safely, keeping with in the design limits, but a less experienced pilot
or even one with no experience could end up stressing the aircraft quite
badly. For example, just doing a simple barrel roll, if the aircraft is not
held high enough initially it may blow badly out the bottom of the maneuver
building up speed while still pulling G and rolling at the same time. It's
not necessarily straight G forces that can do damage but a combination of G
and roll which puts tortional loads on the aircraft.The Rebel has quite
light skin thickness and it may pay to be careful!
If I want to go upside down I think I MIGHT jump in the Pitts!

From: Alister Yeoman

email: yeoman@voyager.co.nz
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<HEAD>

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<META content='"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=GENERATOR>
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<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Ummm, I think you have to be a little
careful
thinking about aerobating aircraft that are not cleared for aerobatics,
there
normally is a reason!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>I have seen this happen before, someone
manages
to convince themselves that their machine is OK for aero's ( even if the
designer does not) and gets right into it, signs of stress usually occur
sooner
or later.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Someone's idea of areo's can be quite
different
to someone else's, I am quite sure an experienced aerobatic pilot can do
basic
aero's in a Rebel very safely, keeping with in the design limits, but a
less
experienced pilot or even one with no experience could end up stressing the
aircraft quite badly. For example, just doing a simple barrel roll, if the
aircraft is not held high enough initially it may blow badly out the bottom
of
the maneuver building up speed while still pulling G and rolling at the
same
time. It's not necessarily straight G forces that can do damage but a
combination of G and roll which puts tortional loads on the aircraft.The
Rebel
has quite light skin thickness and it may pay to be careful! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>If I want to go upside down I think I MIGHT
jump
in the Pitts! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>From: Alister Yeoman</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>email: <A
href="mailto:yeoman@voyager.co.n">yeoman@voyager.co.n</A>z</FONT></DIV></BO
DY></HTML>