Page 1 of 1

That darned aileron hanger

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm
by Walter Klatt
Thanks Alan, that helped me understand further where
the problem is. Sounds like the roof bracket provides
some of the strength to keep the top flanges from
twisting/buckling, so no cap required there. And the
bottom channels would be prevented from compressing by
the cap across the 2 channels. Would .020 be OK instead
of .032? That's what MAM's instructions had in the file
Roger sent me.

As it happens, I also found a longer piece of ST31 that
would fit here, so I might go your route instead of
putting an ST28 inside the existing ST31 as I mentioned
in a previous post.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Alan Hepburn
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 7:54 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: That darned aileron hanger


Gentlemen:

I've been thinking about that aileron hanger
area, and believe I have
gotten to the bottom of the design weakness
(by the way, I am an
engineer, though, electrical, not
structural). When a gust hits a
deflected aileron from behind, a torque is
applied to the torque tube.
If the control column is already against its
stop, the result of this
torque will be to either attempt to pull the
hanger out of the roof or
drive it up into the roof. It turns out the
latter is more of a
problem, as we'll see.

An upward force on the hanger will put the
top flange of the ST-31
channel in tension, and the bottom flange in
compression. Since the
flange is much weaker in compression, the
lower flange will tend to fail
by buckling, and it will tend to buckle away
from the top of the "U" in
the channel. With the current design, all
you've got to prevent this
buckling is that skinny little 5/8" x .020"
bottom flange on the ST-31,
since the hanger is pretty well free to
pivot about the roof bracket.

How to fix it? Well, you can see that on
the Elite, with no falpperons,
you've pretty well cut the forces by 50%
right there, so that may be why
Sean has never seen this problem on the
Elite. Next move, as some have
suggested, is to use thicker material in the
channel. This will improve
the situation, but adding a second channel
back to back with the first
one will work better (since the flange of
one of the channels will
always tend to get twisted in its stronger
direction. Tying the two
flanges together with a 0.032" cap will
stiffen things up immensely. It
more than doubles the thickness of the
flange, and provides a wider
member to resist the sideways buckling
force. If we make it maybe 2
1/2" wide that also will provide additional
resistence to buckling.

So, I'm proposing using two ST-31 channels
back to back (the extra
strength in the vertical channel web gained
by going to thicker material
isn't really required), and put a 2 1/2" x
0.032" cap across the lower
flanges of both, tied in to the flanges of
the roof bulkheads fore and
aft. The whole thing will wind up looking a
lot like the prototype
photograph, but with a rather wider cap
strip. My earlier idea of using
a piece of FUS-65 to tie the entire length
of the upper flange in to the
roof will also help, but not a lot since the
roof bracket already
provides a lot of resistence to buckling for
the top web of the ST-31
(by constraining its sideways movement).

Now, when you fix the weak link in a chain,
you have to be sure you
don't just move the problem somewhere else.
By stiffening the channel
section, the upward force on the hanger will
be transferred to to roof
bulkheads fore and aft. Since the hanger is
closest to bulkhead 9A,
that one will see most of the force.
Fortunately, it is extremely
strong already (because it has a 0.032"
cap), so there should be no
problem. Of course, tie the ST-31s to it
with clips to do a workmanlike
job.

Comments?





*--------------------------------------------
-----------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at
https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail
mike.davis@dcsol.com
*--------------------------------------------
-----------------------------*



*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

That darned aileron hanger

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm
by Alan Hepburn
Gentlemen:

I've been thinking about that aileron hanger area, and believe I have
gotten to the bottom of the design weakness (by the way, I am an
engineer, though, electrical, not structural). When a gust hits a
deflected aileron from behind, a torque is applied to the torque tube.
If the control column is already against its stop, the result of this
torque will be to either attempt to pull the hanger out of the roof or
drive it up into the roof. It turns out the latter is more of a
problem, as we'll see.

An upward force on the hanger will put the top flange of the ST-31
channel in tension, and the bottom flange in compression. Since the
flange is much weaker in compression, the lower flange will tend to fail
by buckling, and it will tend to buckle away from the top of the "U" in
the channel. With the current design, all you've got to prevent this
buckling is that skinny little 5/8" x .020" bottom flange on the ST-31,
since the hanger is pretty well free to pivot about the roof bracket.

How to fix it? Well, you can see that on the Elite, with no falpperons,
you've pretty well cut the forces by 50% right there, so that may be why
Sean has never seen this problem on the Elite. Next move, as some have
suggested, is to use thicker material in the channel. This will improve
the situation, but adding a second channel back to back with the first
one will work better (since the flange of one of the channels will
always tend to get twisted in its stronger direction. Tying the two
flanges together with a 0.032" cap will stiffen things up immensely. It
more than doubles the thickness of the flange, and provides a wider
member to resist the sideways buckling force. If we make it maybe 2
1/2" wide that also will provide additional resistence to buckling.

So, I'm proposing using two ST-31 channels back to back (the extra
strength in the vertical channel web gained by going to thicker material
isn't really required), and put a 2 1/2" x 0.032" cap across the lower
flanges of both, tied in to the flanges of the roof bulkheads fore and
aft. The whole thing will wind up looking a lot like the prototype
photograph, but with a rather wider cap strip. My earlier idea of using
a piece of FUS-65 to tie the entire length of the upper flange in to the
roof will also help, but not a lot since the roof bracket already
provides a lot of resistence to buckling for the top web of the ST-31
(by constraining its sideways movement).

Now, when you fix the weak link in a chain, you have to be sure you
don't just move the problem somewhere else. By stiffening the channel
section, the upward force on the hanger will be transferred to to roof
bulkheads fore and aft. Since the hanger is closest to bulkhead 9A,
that one will see most of the force. Fortunately, it is extremely
strong already (because it has a 0.032" cap), so there should be no
problem. Of course, tie the ST-31s to it with clips to do a workmanlike
job.

Comments?





*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

That darned aileron hanger

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm
by Bill Delcambre
You guys should get a laugh out of this; Several months ago, I bought some
acreage that's not too far from town. It's a nice piece, on which we've
mowed an airstrip. Wife and I have agreed on a name for the place. We call
it 'Aileron'.
There's a 60' x 70' barn on it, that we've cleaned up and been running
electrical service. I'm planning a hydraulic door for airplane passage.
I've insisted on calling it a hangar, not a barn.
So, you see, everytime I see a message, from the group, that refers to 'That
darned aileron hanger', I immediately wonder what's going on...

I'll get used to it.

Bill






*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

That darned aileron hanger

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm
by klehman
Al I agree that a small twist will tend to lead to early failure.

Walter it seems to me that if you use back to back channels, you have
eliminated the twisting force that appears when using a single channel.
That being the case there is no particular need for a massive 2" plus
wide bottom (or top) cap. With simple up and down forces, my guess is
that a 0.020 cap would be fine. Also I'd guess that there is little
benefit in making it wider than the width of the back to back channel.

I do agree with MAM and AL that the top of the channels should be tied
to the roof skin by some method though. Even riveting a short channel or
angle sideways (left to right) to the roof and tying it to the top of
the channel would do it I think. MAM seems to want something there to
help tie the top flange of the channels against the sideways movement
(twisting) that AL refers to.

Ken

Walter Klatt wrote:
Thanks Alan, that helped me understand further where
the problem is. Sounds like the roof bracket provides
some of the strength to keep the top flanges from
twisting/buckling, so no cap required there. And the
bottom channels would be prevented from compressing by
the cap across the 2 channels. Would .020 be OK instead
of .032? That's what MAM's instructions had in the file
Roger sent me.

As it happens, I also found a longer piece of ST31 that
would fit here, so I might go your route instead of
putting an ST28 inside the existing ST31 as I mentioned
in a previous post.


*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

That darned aileron hanger

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm
by Wayne G. O'Shea
I have to agree with Ken, that we're really starting to go OVERKILL on this
channel. It only needs to be strong enough to resist buckling (which the
single .020 channel isn't) and a single .032 channel seems to do the trick.
One better is the roof rib full length combined with a .032 straight channel
to get the mounting in the right place for the hanger bracket.

I have posted two pics to Rebel - Fuselage of this done in FOKM. This was
done using the roof rib leaving both flanges on it and then with the .032
straight piece if was simply made from some .032 sheet with a bottom flange
bent up. Then the two are riveted together along the length and bolted at
the hanger bracket area.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

Al I agree that a small twist will tend to lead to early failure.

Walter it seems to me that if you use back to back channels, you have
eliminated the twisting force that appears when using a single channel.
That being the case there is no particular need for a massive 2" plus
wide bottom (or top) cap. With simple up and down forces, my guess is
that a 0.020 cap would be fine. Also I'd guess that there is little
benefit in making it wider than the width of the back to back channel.

I do agree with MAM and AL that the top of the channels should be tied
to the roof skin by some method though. Even riveting a short channel or
angle sideways (left to right) to the roof and tying it to the top of
the channel would do it I think. MAM seems to want something there to
help tie the top flange of the channels against the sideways movement
(twisting) that AL refers to.

Ken

Walter Klatt wrote:
Thanks Alan, that helped me understand further where
the problem is. Sounds like the roof bracket provides
some of the strength to keep the top flanges from
twisting/buckling, so no cap required there. And the
bottom channels would be prevented from compressing by
the cap across the 2 channels. Would .020 be OK instead
of .032? That's what MAM's instructions had in the file
Roger sent me.

As it happens, I also found a longer piece of ST31 that
would fit here, so I might go your route instead of
putting an ST28 inside the existing ST31 as I mentioned
in a previous post.


*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*



*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

That darned aileron hanger

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm
by Alan Hepburn
I agree, Wayne, 0.032" is no doubt overkill, but the other caps are this
thickness, so what the heck. At least we all seem to agree on the cause of
the problem, and the nature of the fix. As I said, two channels back to
back will work better than one inside the other, 'cause that still leaves
you with essentially a single channel that is much more prone to fail in one
direction than the other.

Regards, Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

I have to agree with Ken, that we're really starting to go OVERKILL on
this
channel. It only needs to be strong enough to resist buckling (which the
single .020 channel isn't) and a single .032 channel seems to do the
trick.
One better is the roof rib full length combined with a .032 straight
channel
to get the mounting in the right place for the hanger bracket.

I have posted two pics to Rebel - Fuselage of this done in FOKM. This was
done using the roof rib leaving both flanges on it and then with the .032
straight piece if was simply made from some .032 sheet with a bottom
flange
bent up. Then the two are riveted together along the length and bolted at
the hanger bracket area.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

Al I agree that a small twist will tend to lead to early failure.

Walter it seems to me that if you use back to back channels, you have
eliminated the twisting force that appears when using a single channel.
That being the case there is no particular need for a massive 2" plus
wide bottom (or top) cap. With simple up and down forces, my guess is
that a 0.020 cap would be fine. Also I'd guess that there is little
benefit in making it wider than the width of the back to back channel.

I do agree with MAM and AL that the top of the channels should be tied
to the roof skin by some method though. Even riveting a short channel or
angle sideways (left to right) to the roof and tying it to the top of
the channel would do it I think. MAM seems to want something there to
help tie the top flange of the channels against the sideways movement
(twisting) that AL refers to.

Ken

Walter Klatt wrote:
Thanks Alan, that helped me understand further where
the problem is. Sounds like the roof bracket provides
some of the strength to keep the top flanges from
twisting/buckling, so no cap required there. And the
bottom channels would be prevented from compressing by
the cap across the 2 channels. Would .020 be OK instead
of .032? That's what MAM's instructions had in the file
Roger sent me.

As it happens, I also found a longer piece of ST31 that
would fit here, so I might go your route instead of
putting an ST28 inside the existing ST31 as I mentioned
in a previous post.


*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*



*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

That darned aileron hanger

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm
by Wayne G. O'Shea
Don't get too far over to the Right though with your extra channel though as
I think you will be unable to make the moulded headliner fit if you do! I'll
have a look at both mine and Howard's in the morning, but I think it's a
pretty close fit to the single channel as it is!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

I agree, Wayne, 0.032" is no doubt overkill, but the other caps are this
thickness, so what the heck. At least we all seem to agree on the cause
of
the problem, and the nature of the fix. As I said, two channels back to
back will work better than one inside the other, 'cause that still leaves
you with essentially a single channel that is much more prone to fail in
one
direction than the other.

Regards, Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

I have to agree with Ken, that we're really starting to go OVERKILL on
this
channel. It only needs to be strong enough to resist buckling (which the
single .020 channel isn't) and a single .032 channel seems to do the
trick.
One better is the roof rib full length combined with a .032 straight
channel
to get the mounting in the right place for the hanger bracket.

I have posted two pics to Rebel - Fuselage of this done in FOKM. This
was
done using the roof rib leaving both flanges on it and then with the
.032
straight piece if was simply made from some .032 sheet with a bottom
flange
bent up. Then the two are riveted together along the length and bolted
at
the hanger bracket area.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

Al I agree that a small twist will tend to lead to early failure.

Walter it seems to me that if you use back to back channels, you have
eliminated the twisting force that appears when using a single
channel.
That being the case there is no particular need for a massive 2" plus
wide bottom (or top) cap. With simple up and down forces, my guess is
that a 0.020 cap would be fine. Also I'd guess that there is little
benefit in making it wider than the width of the back to back channel.

I do agree with MAM and AL that the top of the channels should be tied
to the roof skin by some method though. Even riveting a short channel
or
angle sideways (left to right) to the roof and tying it to the top of
the channel would do it I think. MAM seems to want something there to
help tie the top flange of the channels against the sideways movement
(twisting) that AL refers to.

Ken

Walter Klatt wrote:

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*



*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

That darned aileron hanger

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm
by Alan Hepburn
I'd appreciate that, Wayne. I guess we'd be talking an extra 5/8". Sean
has made a home made headliner which looks great, but it does tend to make
the skylights kind of like peeking through a pipe, as the edges are not
bevelled. I have no skylights on that panel where the hanger is located, so
I guess I could simply do away with the Murphy headliner back there and put
in a flat panel.

Regards, Al.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

Don't get too far over to the Right though with your extra channel though
as
I think you will be unable to make the moulded headliner fit if you do!
I'll
have a look at both mine and Howard's in the morning, but I think it's a
pretty close fit to the single channel as it is!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

I agree, Wayne, 0.032" is no doubt overkill, but the other caps are this
thickness, so what the heck. At least we all seem to agree on the cause
of
the problem, and the nature of the fix. As I said, two channels back to
back will work better than one inside the other, 'cause that still
leaves
you with essentially a single channel that is much more prone to fail in
one
direction than the other.

Regards, Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

I have to agree with Ken, that we're really starting to go OVERKILL on
this
channel. It only needs to be strong enough to resist buckling (which
the
single .020 channel isn't) and a single .032 channel seems to do the
trick.
One better is the roof rib full length combined with a .032 straight
channel
to get the mounting in the right place for the hanger bracket.

I have posted two pics to Rebel - Fuselage of this done in FOKM. This
was
done using the roof rib leaving both flanges on it and then with the
.032
straight piece if was simply made from some .032 sheet with a bottom
flange
bent up. Then the two are riveted together along the length and bolted
at
the hanger bracket area.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

have
channel.
plus
is
channel.
tied
channel
or
of
to
movement
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*



*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

That darned aileron hanger

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm
by Alan Hepburn
Wayne:

I wonder if you ever got around to measuring how much room there is to spare
with the roof liner? My next move is to install the "darned hanger".

Regards, Al.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

Don't get too far over to the Right though with your extra channel though
as
I think you will be unable to make the moulded headliner fit if you do!
I'll
have a look at both mine and Howard's in the morning, but I think it's a
pretty close fit to the single channel as it is!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

I agree, Wayne, 0.032" is no doubt overkill, but the other caps are this
thickness, so what the heck. At least we all seem to agree on the cause
of
the problem, and the nature of the fix. As I said, two channels back to
back will work better than one inside the other, 'cause that still
leaves
you with essentially a single channel that is much more prone to fail in
one
direction than the other.

Regards, Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

I have to agree with Ken, that we're really starting to go OVERKILL on
this
channel. It only needs to be strong enough to resist buckling (which
the
single .020 channel isn't) and a single .032 channel seems to do the
trick.
One better is the roof rib full length combined with a .032 straight
channel
to get the mounting in the right place for the hanger bracket.

I have posted two pics to Rebel - Fuselage of this done in FOKM. This
was
done using the roof rib leaving both flanges on it and then with the
.032
straight piece if was simply made from some .032 sheet with a bottom
flange
bent up. Then the two are riveted together along the length and bolted
at
the hanger bracket area.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

have
channel.
plus
is
channel.
tied
channel
or
of
to
movement
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*



*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

That darned aileron hanger

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm
by Wayne G. O'Shea
Been a ZOOOOO around here, with almost a straight Month of rain messing with
plans, and I keep forgetting. Putting my coat on and heading to the hanger
right now. Will send another email in a couple minutes.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

Wayne:

I wonder if you ever got around to measuring how much room there is to
spare
with the roof liner? My next move is to install the "darned hanger".

Regards, Al.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

Don't get too far over to the Right though with your extra channel
though
as
I think you will be unable to make the moulded headliner fit if you do!
I'll
have a look at both mine and Howard's in the morning, but I think it's a
pretty close fit to the single channel as it is!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

I agree, Wayne, 0.032" is no doubt overkill, but the other caps are
this
thickness, so what the heck. At least we all seem to agree on the
cause
of
the problem, and the nature of the fix. As I said, two channels back
to
back will work better than one inside the other, 'cause that still
leaves
you with essentially a single channel that is much more prone to fail
in
one
direction than the other.

Regards, Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

on
this
the
trick. channel
This
was
.032
flange
bolted
at
have
channel.
plus
is
little
channel.
tied
channel
or
of
to
movement
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*



*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

That darned aileron hanger

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm
by Wayne G. O'Shea
Al, there is JUST enough room for a channel on the starboard side of the
original. May be wise to add another bend to the channels lower flange of
about 60* about a 1/4" in from the edge. Otherwise I'd be concerned that the
flange edge would saw through the headliner, because it's that close!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

Been a ZOOOOO around here, with almost a straight Month of rain messing
with
plans, and I keep forgetting. Putting my coat on and heading to the hanger
right now. Will send another email in a couple minutes.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

Wayne:

I wonder if you ever got around to measuring how much room there is to
spare
with the roof liner? My next move is to install the "darned hanger".

Regards, Al.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

Don't get too far over to the Right though with your extra channel
though
as
I think you will be unable to make the moulded headliner fit if you
do!
I'll
have a look at both mine and Howard's in the morning, but I think it's
a
pretty close fit to the single channel as it is!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

this
cause
of
back
to
leaves
fail
in
one
OVERKILL
on
(which
the
the
straight
This
was
the
.032
bottom
bolted
at
failure.
have
channel.
plus
guess
is
little
channel.
be
tied
channel
or
top
of
there
to
movement
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*



*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

That darned aileron hanger

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:57 pm
by Alan Hepburn
Thanks, Wayne. Now, my manual shows the channel 4 1/8" fom the root rib,
with the top of the U facing starboard, and the hanger on the port side of
the channel. My plan was to put the second channel in the port side of the
hanger, so that shouldn't intrude at all, or Have I got things wrong here?

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

Al, there is JUST enough room for a channel on the starboard side of the
original. May be wise to add another bend to the channels lower flange of
about 60* about a 1/4" in from the edge. Otherwise I'd be concerned that
the
flange edge would saw through the headliner, because it's that close!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

Been a ZOOOOO around here, with almost a straight Month of rain messing
with
plans, and I keep forgetting. Putting my coat on and heading to the
hanger
right now. Will send another email in a couple minutes.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

Wayne:

I wonder if you ever got around to measuring how much room there is to
spare
with the roof liner? My next move is to install the "darned hanger".

Regards, Al.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

though
as
do!
I'll
it's
a
are
this
cause
back
to
leaves
fail
in
OVERKILL
on
(which
the
the
straight
This
the
bottom
bolted
failure.
you
have
2"
plus
guess
is
little
channel.
be
tied channel
top
of
there
to movement
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*



*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*







-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

That darned aileron hanger

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:57 pm
by Wayne G. O'Shea
I'll take a measurement while I am winterizing FOKM's and GCYP's amphibs
tomorrow and let you know the distance from the port side to where the
headliner panel will get tight.
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

Thanks, Wayne. Now, my manual shows the channel 4 1/8" fom the root rib,
with the top of the U facing starboard, and the hanger on the port side of
the channel. My plan was to put the second channel in the port side of
the
hanger, so that shouldn't intrude at all, or Have I got things wrong here?

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

Al, there is JUST enough room for a channel on the starboard side of the
original. May be wise to add another bend to the channels lower flange
of
about 60* about a 1/4" in from the edge. Otherwise I'd be concerned that
the
flange edge would saw through the headliner, because it's that close!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

Been a ZOOOOO around here, with almost a straight Month of rain
messing
with
plans, and I keep forgetting. Putting my coat on and heading to the
hanger
right now. Will send another email in a couple minutes.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: That darned aileron hanger

to
spare
hanger".
though
you
do!
it's
a
are
this
the
cause
back
to
still
fail
in
OVERKILL
on
(which
do
the
straight
FOKM.
This
with
the
bottom
and
bolted
failure.
you
single
massive
2"
guess
little
back
should
be
short
the
top
there
sideways
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*



*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------