The Murphy Builders Site

Hi Drew,

Were your floats pre builds from MAM with the clear hydraulic lines? I'm
assuming you had problems with the lines MAM supplied and you replaced

DOT approved plastic hydraulic lines. They would not hold pressure? I would
like to hear more.

I have a set of pre builds from MAM I will install this winter and have
considered replacing the clear plastic lines with aircraft quality

I have clear plastic on the brake lines and have not had any problems with
it. I like the fact I can see through them.

I did replace one of the forward cylinder lines, as it was kinked because of
a poor installation.

Bruce 357R




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-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Legeorgen@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 8:41 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines


Drew,

Yes, my hydraulic lines are MAM's clear
plastic ones. After I got the
prebuilts home I began to examine them and
found a kinked line on the forward (nose
wheel) cylinder. The brass compression
fitting was facing forward and the line,
coming from the rear, had to make a 220*
turn with a 6" radius to engage the
fitting. The other side was installed the
same way only it had not kinked yet!
I turned the fitting on the forward nose
wheel cylinders to the rear so the
line only had to turn 30* to make the brass fitting!

The brass fittings used on these clear
plastic hydraulic lines have brass
compression fittings like the brakes use.
The only nylon compression fittings are
the tee fittings inside the cabin that split
the lines for the hand pump (not
installed yet). I never thought the lines
and fittings would be a problem
because the pressures necessary to operate
he gear is so low. It sounds like you
are having a different experience. Let me
know how it turns out. If I have to,
I would prefer to replace them now while I'm
in the shop!

I saw Steve Sloan's Rebel at Arlington and
he had replaced all HIS lines with
Aluminum flared, bulkhead fittings and
aircraft hydraulics lines. It looked
impressive, although I wasn't sure if it was
really necessary, but if you see
Steve's Rebel the whole plane is built this
way. Very nice!

How about you Walter? What has been your
experience with the MAM supplied
line and fittings?

Wayne? Bobp? Care to weigh in hear?

Bruce 357R




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-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 8:59 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines


Since it's now about 4 months from when I
paid for my two sets of prebuilts
and I have yet to recieve any of the back
orders that would finish an
installation or confirmation from Brian
Godden that tubing and other misc
supply quanities are wrong......... I
haven't bothered to finish uncrating
them to have a good look at how the prebuilt
lines where run.

However, I did build Howard's floats and he
is on his 6th summer on the
original MAM supplied plastic lines. I have
tightened a couple of the
plastic tees slightly over the years and one
brass cylinder fitting, but
other than that his system holds pressure
for WEEKS. On FOKM, that Bob
refers to as "his would bleed down" the only
reason for this I found was
that the pump base was cracked between the
outlet port threads and the
mounting bolt hole. After I found this and
replaced the pump with a new one
the pressure stayed up for days.

Just recently, I was seeing the pressure
drop off fairly quickly in FOKM and
couldn't find any leaks. I then found if I
pulled the pump handle fully up
the pressure would stay for days again. This
showed that the outlet check
valve was leaking (and the inlet valve was
holding) and the pressure was
bleeding back into the pump and lifting the
piston. Must have been a piece
of dirt or something as it is now holding
pressure again no matter where the
handle is left.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines

Drew,

Yes, my hydraulic lines are MAM's clear

plastic ones. After I got the

prebuilts home I began to examine them and

found a kinked line on the
forward (nose

wheel) cylinder. The brass compression

fitting was facing forward and the
line,

coming from the rear, had to make a 220*

turn with a 6" radius to engage
the

fitting. The other side was installed the

same way only it had not kinked
yet!

I turned the fitting on the forward nose

wheel cylinders to the rear so
the

line only had to turn 30* to make the

brass fitting!

The brass fittings used on these clear

plastic hydraulic lines have brass

compression fittings like the brakes use.

The only nylon compression
fittings are

the tee fittings inside the cabin that

split the lines for the hand pump
(not

installed yet). I never thought the lines

and fittings would be a problem

because the pressures necessary to operate

he gear is so low. It sounds
like you

are having a different experience. Let me

know how it turns out. If I have
to,

I would prefer to replace them now while

I'm in the shop!

I saw Steve Sloan's Rebel at Arlington and

he had replaced all HIS lines
with

Aluminum flared, bulkhead fittings and

aircraft hydraulics lines. It
looked

impressive, although I wasn't sure if it

was really necessary, but if you
see

Steve's Rebel the whole plane is built

this way. Very nice!

How about you Walter? What has been your

experience with the MAM supplied

line and fittings?

Wayne? Bobp? Care to weigh in hear?

Bruce 357R

*--------------------------------------------
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To unsubscribe from this list go to:

Archives located at

To contact the list admin, e-mail

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 9:28 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines


UP or DOWN Walter. Otherwise you lose the
pressure in the lines, when you
select the center position, and this may
explain why you're dragging a
wheel!!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <walter.klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 12:29 PM
Subject: RE: Float hydraulic lines

I have a question about where you leave

the selector

valve after pumping the gear up or down.

With mine, I

have been leaving mine in the centre (lock

position?).

But from some of the descriptions here, it made me
wonder if some people leave the valve in

the up or down

position instead.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 8:59 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines


Since it's now about 4 months from when I
paid for my two sets of prebuilts
and I have yet to recieve any of the back
orders that would finish an
installation or confirmation from Brian
Godden that tubing and other misc
supply quanities are wrong......... I
haven't bothered to finish uncrating
them to have a good look at how the prebuilt
lines where run.

However, I did build Howard's floats and he
is on his 6th summer on the
original MAM supplied plastic lines. I have
tightened a couple of the
plastic tees slightly over the years and one
brass cylinder fitting, but
other than that his system holds pressure
for WEEKS. On FOKM, that Bob
refers to as "his would bleed down" the only
reason for this I found was
that the pump base was cracked between the
outlet port threads and the
mounting bolt hole. After I found this and
replaced the pump with a new one
the pressure stayed up for days.

Just recently, I was seeing the pressure
drop off fairly quickly in FOKM and
couldn't find any leaks. I then found if I
pulled the pump handle fully up
the pressure would stay for days again. This
showed that the outlet check
valve was leaking (and the inlet valve was
holding) and the pressure was
bleeding back into the pump and lifting the
piston. Must have been a piece
of dirt or something as it is now holding
pressure again no matter where the
handle is left.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines

plastic ones. After I got the found a kinked line on the
forward (nose fitting was facing forward and the
line, turn with a 6" radius to engage
the same way only it had not kinked
yet! wheel cylinders to the rear so
the brass fitting! plastic hydraulic lines have brass The only nylon compression
fittings are split the lines for the hand pump
(not and fittings would be a problem he gear is so low. It sounds
like you know how it turns out. If I have
to, I'm in the shop! he had replaced all HIS lines
with aircraft hydraulics lines. It
looked was really necessary, but if you
see this way. Very nice! experience with the MAM supplied *--------------------------------------------
-----------------------------*

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cribe.wcx

Archives located at

http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm

To contact the list admin, e-mail

mike.davis@dcsol.com

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Drew,

Yes, my hydraulic lines are MAM's clear plastic ones. After I got the
prebuilts home I began to examine them and found a kinked line on the

wheel) cylinder. The brass compression fitting was facing forward and the

coming from the rear, had to make a 220* turn with a 6" radius to engage

fitting. The other side was installed the same way only it had not kinked

I turned the fitting on the forward nose wheel cylinders to the rear so

line only had to turn 30* to make the brass fitting!

The brass fittings used on these clear plastic hydraulic lines have brass
compression fittings like the brakes use. The only nylon compression

the tee fittings inside the cabin that split the lines for the hand pump

installed yet). I never thought the lines and fittings would be a problem
because the pressures necessary to operate he gear is so low. It sounds

are having a different experience. Let me know how it turns out. If I have

I would prefer to replace them now while I'm in the shop!

I saw Steve Sloan's Rebel at Arlington and he had replaced all HIS lines

Aluminum flared, bulkhead fittings and aircraft hydraulics lines. It

impressive, although I wasn't sure if it was really necessary, but if you

Steve's Rebel the whole plane is built this way. Very nice!

How about you Walter? What has been your experience with the MAM supplied
line and fittings?

Wayne? Bobp? Care to weigh in hear?

Bruce 357R

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

I have a question about where you leave the selector
valve after pumping the gear up or down. With mine, I
have been leaving mine in the centre (lock position?).
But from some of the descriptions here, it made me
wonder if some people leave the valve in the up or down
position instead.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 8:59 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines


Since it's now about 4 months from when I
paid for my two sets of prebuilts
and I have yet to recieve any of the back
orders that would finish an
installation or confirmation from Brian
Godden that tubing and other misc
supply quanities are wrong......... I
haven't bothered to finish uncrating
them to have a good look at how the prebuilt
lines where run.

However, I did build Howard's floats and he
is on his 6th summer on the
original MAM supplied plastic lines. I have
tightened a couple of the
plastic tees slightly over the years and one
brass cylinder fitting, but
other than that his system holds pressure
for WEEKS. On FOKM, that Bob
refers to as "his would bleed down" the only
reason for this I found was
that the pump base was cracked between the
outlet port threads and the
mounting bolt hole. After I found this and
replaced the pump with a new one
the pressure stayed up for days.

Just recently, I was seeing the pressure
drop off fairly quickly in FOKM and
couldn't find any leaks. I then found if I
pulled the pump handle fully up
the pressure would stay for days again. This
showed that the outlet check
valve was leaking (and the inlet valve was
holding) and the pressure was
bleeding back into the pump and lifting the
piston. Must have been a piece
of dirt or something as it is now holding
pressure again no matter where the
handle is left.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines

Drew,

Yes, my hydraulic lines are MAM's clear

plastic ones. After I got the

prebuilts home I began to examine them and

found a kinked line on the
forward (nose

wheel) cylinder. The brass compression

fitting was facing forward and the
line,

coming from the rear, had to make a 220*

turn with a 6" radius to engage
the

fitting. The other side was installed the

same way only it had not kinked
yet!

I turned the fitting on the forward nose

wheel cylinders to the rear so
the

line only had to turn 30* to make the

brass fitting!

The brass fittings used on these clear

plastic hydraulic lines have brass

compression fittings like the brakes use.

The only nylon compression
fittings are

the tee fittings inside the cabin that

split the lines for the hand pump
(not

installed yet). I never thought the lines

and fittings would be a problem

because the pressures necessary to operate

he gear is so low. It sounds
like you

are having a different experience. Let me

know how it turns out. If I have
to,

I would prefer to replace them now while

I'm in the shop!

I saw Steve Sloan's Rebel at Arlington and

he had replaced all HIS lines
with

Aluminum flared, bulkhead fittings and

aircraft hydraulics lines. It
looked

impressive, although I wasn't sure if it

was really necessary, but if you
see

Steve's Rebel the whole plane is built

this way. Very nice!

How about you Walter? What has been your

experience with the MAM supplied

line and fittings?

Wayne? Bobp? Care to weigh in hear?

Bruce 357R

*--------------------------------------------
-----------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:

http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx

Archives located at

http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm

To contact the list admin, e-mail

mike.davis@dcsol.com
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To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at
http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*------------------------------------------------------
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To unsubscribe from this list go to:
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Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

Well I've changed all my hydraulic lines and the check valves on the pump.
In the up position my system holds pressure for about 1/2hr. In the down
position the pressure bleeds off in a couple minutes. I can't find any
leaks so I'm wondering now if I have an internal leak in the selector
valve. I think I can test it by removing the line and putting a cap on the
selector and seeing if it holds pressure or not.
The lines that I removed are 3 different types one is clearer and harder
while the other is a little softer and cloudier. I bought some more

because not enough was included with the kit. I also had to buy hose for
brake lines. neither has any markings on it. Both types have gone quite
stiff. Robin offered to send new check valves but I told him not to bother
as I didn't want to wait.
Drew Dalgleish

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Drew,
I had a internal leak in one of the hyd wheel cylinders. It was bypassing
the within the cylinder. The ram was bent and the o-ring would not seal in
the wheel down position. The problem would not show with the airplane on
jacks, only when the wheels were on the ground.
To find the problem I put a pressure gage on the system and started
isolating each component of the system. Slow process, first capped off the
pump at the output, then went to the floats one cylinder at a time. All day
job, it turned out to be the last thing tested.
Al

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Drew Dalgleish
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 12:57 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines


At 09:38 PM 8/24/2003 -0700, you wrote:

Drew,
I had a internal leak in one of the hyd

wheel cylinders. It was bypassing

the within the cylinder. The ram was bent

and the o-ring would not seal in

the wheel down position. The problem would

not show with the airplane on

jacks, only when the wheels were on the ground.
To find the problem I put a pressure gage

on the system and started

isolating each component of the system.

Slow process, first capped off the

pump at the output, then went to the floats

one cylinder at a time. All day

job, it turned out to be the last thing tested.
Al

Thanks For that hint Al. I was assuming that
if it only leaks one way the
problem wouldn't be in the cylinder itself.
Now I've got something else to
check :(
Drew Dalgleish




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Drew, this probably won't make you feel any better, but
I did some testing these last couple of days with my
floats regarding holding pressure, and found that mine
don't hold pressure more than a few seconds gear up or
down, and it doesn't matter whether the selector lever
is in the lock (middle) or up and down position. So I
guess I have this problem, too.

It doesn't seem to have any effect when gear down, as
the mains automatically lock, with the over centre
position on the ground. With the front wheels I install
little plastic locks when on the ground for pulling it
into the hangar. Otherwise they will try to retract
when being pulled backwards. This is not a problem and
I can live with that.

With gear up, I do have to remember to pump up just
before take-off on water, or my right main wheel drags
slightly and my take-off run will be extended. I do
consider this an annoyance.

Anyway, I have been flying this way for 2 years, so
it's not the end of the world if your hydraulics don't
hold pressure. One of these winters, I will take the
floats off, and do a full inspection and try to fix it.
For now, it's not enough of a problem to warrant any
downtime for me.

Let us know what you find, though, and maybe it will
help us get ours fixed more quickly.

Walter